Okay, I’ve been pondering over this idea for a thread for a long time now…weeks, months, really…having, some time ago, started a discussion about how WE would stimulation of the economy that went, relatively, well… I feel a slight bit of confidence that, perhaps, this one can go well too…and that, perhaps, in doing so…for the warring factions that we tend to be…we can get a better glimpse of what makes one another tick.

Now, in the spirit of understanding, I would like to attempt to set this standard in the thread…knowing full well as that I am not a moderator, I have no real authority or ability to set any form of standard…

…this DISCUSSION is intended to be an EXPLORATION of IDEAS and, in a sense, an attempt to foster better UNDERSTANDING.

…this is NOT an ARGUMENT.
…this is NOT a PISSING CONTEST.

Knowing full well that it will likely reduce both the scope and size of the of the probable participants by 50-75%, what I would like to NOT SEE is posters who only have criticism to add, and no real ideas to diecuss.

That being said, the subject is Political Theory – ReConstitution.

Its kind of a play on words…but I would like to discuss the nature of political structures, governments, systems…to those who have read Plato’s Republic, my aim is very much along the line of Socrates’ dialectic of the creation of the City-State, in thought.

If we were to wipe the slate clean…we’re not talking about nations, we’re not talking about political affiliations, parties, etc…but to truly wipe the slate clean, and create a social order…a city, a state…how would we organize it, what would be the founding principles of that city/state/civilization, and most importantly, why?


Chances are this thread will quickly die off…because it could be quite boring…but its been on my mind because I want to gain some insight into others, ESPECIALLY some of the more Conservative members of this Forum, think…without being preachy or trollish…because we get into far too many arguments and just start telling people what they think…

…anyhow, rememeber…I don’t want to hear any “we should just revert back to the Constitution, because its….(insert rationale here)…” Yadda Yadda Yadda…

To be fair…I will start…

Size: Small/Medium.

No larger than, say, the average European nation. I think that when you have a larger nation in regards to physical size and population, subsequently, a larger government and more bureaucracy has the tendency to follow, and rightly so, because the complexities of modern society demand it to maintain justice and order.

The Government

Electoral System: Proportionally Representative

Legislature: The Lawgivers
ELECTION: Once every 2 years, replacing 1/3 of the legislative body.
1.) Elections should be based on proportional voting of the nation as a whole, as this nation is going to be kept at a small to moderate size, though I don’t see the problem with this on a larger scale. Additionally, elections should not be based on candidates, but rather parties and their platform.
2.) When a party wins a percent of the electoral vote, they should be granted that percent of the seats available in the legislative body of the nation. Who exactly fills that seat should be, I believe, determined by the party, and only the party. So, for instance, “Party A” wins 5% of the electorate, they get to choose, from within their party, which of their best and brightest will fill that 5 % of the legislative body.
3.a) Additionally, parties should be allowed to, formally, form coalitions with one another in order to create a majority/plurality coalition.
3.b) If a majority holding coalition formally disbands their coalition, then the newly arrived at majority or, if a majority is not met, plurality party reforms the Executive Branch of the Government
TERM LIMITS: After each term, an individual must be reselected by their party to remain in office. After two terms, the individual must wait two years before being selected again for placement in the legislature.
DUTIES: Responsible for the passing of legislation. Also responsible for protecting the publics interest. Can call for a “No Contest Vote” which calls for a public vote on the removal of the Prime Minister/President from office before the end of his term

Executive: The Chief
ELECTION: The party, or coalition, that gains the majority/plurality of seats in the legislature then has the responsibility to select a Prime Minister/President who then selects their cabinet. The Opposition party/parties have the responsibility to, if they should choose, form a Shadow Cabinet to counter the majority’s cabinet and put forward their agenda/platform.
TERM LIMITS: 4 year term, 2 term limit in succession, one term “out of circulation”…(Cannot be elected to Legislature or Judicial) …unless the party/coalition loses majority/plurality, or calls for a “No Contest” Vote..
DUTIES: Acts as political figurehead of the nation. Is intricately involved in, personally and through his cabinet, the national and international policymaking decisions. Has the sole authority to establish and abolish treaties with foreign nations. Holds the authority, with ratification of the Legislature, to declare war.


Judicial: The Law
ELECTION: Chosen by the acting Prime Minister/President, as necessary.
TERM LIMIT: 10 year term, 5 years off…then allowed to serve again.
DUTIES: Judges make sure that the law is applied justly, equally, and fairly. Their role is both to interpret and maintain the law, in reference to the cases that are brought before them….They cannot act in a pro-active manner, in the sense of re-interpreting new legislation and laws, only that which is brought before their counsel.

The Counsel: Watchmen
ELECTION: 25 Individuals selected, randomly, from a pool of candidates, 1/3 of which are replaced every 2 years. Individuals added to this pool of candidates are deemed qualified by meeting certain criteria; individuals must be professionals and academics from both the social and hard science realms, as well as business and industry. Individuals in the pool must possess at least a Master’s level, or equivalent, education, or combination of education and experience. Individuals chosen for this position may, at any time, decline or retire from the position.
TERM LIMIT: 6 Year term, two year gap between terms. Maximum of 3 terms per person.
DUTIES: Charged with analyzing whether the other branches of the government are properly doing their jobs…IE, if is a discrepancy between the Legislative and Executive branch, it is up to the Counsel to decide if there is sufficient enough cause to launch an investigation into possible wrongdoing, or overreaching of authority, or in extreme cases, the Counsel can prompt a case to go to the Judiciary. BUT they do not have authority to enact legislation, remove leaders, etc…

OVERVIEW: What is not explicitly stated in the brief descriptions of each branch is that obviously, many of the details would be arranged to minimize overlapping duties, but this is just a general idea…The ability of the Majority/Coalition of the Legislature to choose the Executive, as in a Parlimentary system, was decided upon because I find it to be a much more politically expedient process…I think that a lot of time and money is wasted when we have a president of one party and a congress of another, or two houses of congress with differing majorities for that matter, who spend more time bickering amongst one another, filibustering, vetoing, etc. than they do actually creating and enacting useful legislation and policy…the threat of holding a “No Contest” vote seems to work well enough in England to get things back in line….in essence…My thought on that is that the public at large should have the ability to “unelect” officials if they are not doing a good job...lets say for instance, you have an elected official in the “Executive branch” who’s administration’s approval rating is in the high-teens to low-twenties…they can be removed because obviously they are not satisfying their constituents, IE their public…also, if an Administration signs off on an action that is simply unfathomable by the public…lets say, they OK torture or pass a multi-trillion dollar bail-out, that the public is really upset about…they can possibly be removed from office…

The Fourth Branch, “The Counsel” as I deem it…is more like a Judicial Branch 2.0…or maybe 1.5...they are essentially a think-tank designed to make sure that people in government are doing what they are supposed to be doing…

[edit on 14/5/09 by madhatr137]

Anyway….that’s it for now….I’ve got plenty more to come…if anyone is interested…and even if they’re not….up next…or eventually….

On the next episode….

…Either the “Mixed Feelings on the Economy” or “A More Civil Society.”

I would go with the Westminster system in principle . Although I would go for a Civil Rights bill that is Supreme law . The electoral system would naturally be tailored towards proportional representation either STV or MMP is what springs to mind at this late hour . Either have a president who is elected by the people or have Queen has the formal head of state out of constitutional convenience . Anyway I need to get some sleep so I ask the reader to forgive my ramblings .

And as I expected...after a week, the thread is more or less dead.

I guess it just goes to prove...everybody knows what is wrong with the system, why we must have a revolution, why we have to "go back to the Constitution"(Whatever that really means)...but when pressed for some original thought...something deeper than the usual reactionary, dichotomous, malarchy...

...rarely does anyone today have anything to say.

Revolution, that's the easy part.
Civilization, that's the challenge.