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Obama mulls 'indefinite detention' of terror suspects

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posted on May, 14 2009 @ 09:56 AM
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Obama mulls 'indefinite detention' of terror suspects


news.yahoo.com

WASHINGTON (AFP) – As part of its plans to close Guantanamo Bay, the Obama administration is considering holding some of the detainees indefinitely and without trial on US soil, US media reported Thursday.

President Barack Obama's "administration is weighing plans to detain some terror suspects on US soil -- indefinitely and without trial -- as part of a plan to retool military commission trials that were conducted for prisoners held in Guantanamo Bay," The Wall Street Journal said.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on May, 14 2009 @ 09:56 AM
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Just yesterday there were articles saying he was supposed to be reviving the military trials, then this says the suspects well be held indefinitely without trial? I wouldn't want them just released, but I can't agree with this either.

I ran a search and didn't find this headline anywhere, so if it was posted under a different title, my apologies. I would like to hear everyone's opinions on this though. Do you support them being held indefinitely without trial?

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


Well imagine if it was you, and you never did anything wrong, how would you feel.

America can do this to anyone around the world, apart from maybe russians and chinese. You gotta remember that.

What ever road obama takes with this, america is under no threat from no one other than themselves, no matter what they say. America is a society that is virtually locked down nowadays, and you think single people or tiny groups can ever do anything real without them knowing about it, you are very wrong. 911 happened because they let it happen, that says it all.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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It is my humble oppinion that they can not try any of these men.

They can not try any of these men because after all these years of incarcertation, torture, deprivation and attempts to break their minds they still will not say what the government would need them to say in order to not just justify these men's abductions, but that their actions warranted the huge economic and human costs for two bankrupting wars against their people, cultures and religion.

With out these men prepared to confess to what the government alledges the government is left in a quandry as it actually can not prove to indpendent citizens and judges that there is any or enough substance to the government's allegations to possibly make any of the inhumane war mongering carried out by the government as being in the people's interest.

9-11 Trials should have been carried out within 3 years at the latest even with defendants being tried in abstentia under the 'normal' and 'typical' time frames and standards our government uses in proving criminal conspiracies.

They can't prove these conspiracies and never could, which is why they were never brought to the U.S. and placed in Super Maximum Security like someone like Timmothy McVeigh was.

They can't afford these men talking to the press. They can't afford these men talking in open court proceedings. They can't afford being challenged by a constitutional legal defense to show the evidence against these men.

This whole thing of closing Gitmo is just another way to not just deny these men justice, but the American people the justice of the truth to long denied us and to long used to our detriment.

Obama's 'Change' seems to be about quashing any hope at all that 'Change' can possibly occur.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


And you thought Obama meant change...
Yep King George moved out, more goverment money spent, more social engineering, and more national debet. New Boss looks like the Old Boss.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by andy1033
Well imagine if it was you, and you never did anything wrong, how would you feel.


I wouldn't feel as bad as the American girl killed by a released Guantanamo prisoner recently, who I guess really isn't feeling anything any more.




America can do this to anyone around the world, apart from maybe russians and chinese. You gotta remember that.


Some of the prisoners in Guantanamo have openly stated that if released they would go right back to killing americans - what would YOU do with such people?




What ever road obama takes with this, america is under no threat from no one other than themselves, no matter what they say.


So the terrorists all love us, China has no military ambitions, the resumption of Russian overlights is nothing to worry about, North Koreas nuclear weapons will never be used, Iran's nuclear program poses no threat, the Afghan terrorist training camps should be allowed to re-open, the Pakistan situation and the security of their nuclear weapons is nothing to worry about.

America has been under attack from "non-threatening entities" since its birth. Twice by the British, then by the Mexicans, then the Japanese at Pearl Harbor, and finally the Muslims took their turn.

You'll forgive us if we try and learn from our prior ignorance.



America is a society that is virtually locked down nowadays


I can travel freely, I can practice any religion I choose without fear of persecution, I can speak my mind without fear of reprisal, I can purchase assault rifles and unlimited amounts of ammunition, I can legally carry a concealed handgun, my leaders can only serve a maximum of 8 years in office before they are compulsarily removed.

Name me a few other countries that are so "locked down".



911 happened because they let it happen, that says it all.



911 happened because a group of Muslims driven to hate the US by their mysoginistic medieval religion (and who hated the western way of life so much that they spent their last few days partying it up in Vegas) flew hijacked planes into buildings after training to fly them at private flight schools.

I can't help the delusionals who want to believe the government planned the whole thing so we could have cheap gas.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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its called internment and its illegal under international law. (forth geneva convention) - POW camps are for those under the 3rd geneva convention


oh wait - the USA made up a new identity which doesn`t exist to get around those pesky laws of war.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by andy1033
 


You seem to be going off the assumption that every one of the people being held are innocent and were detained without any reason. A quick glance through this shows several who have been charged and/or convicted of murder, people who were released only to go do a suicide bombing, people who have admitted to being one thing or another, and at least one who was released and then went and fought with with the Taliban and was killed by coalition forces. So no, they aren't all innocent. Some were, and a large chunk of them were released. I have no issue with the innocent people being released, in fact I believe they should have been released already. But those who are not innocent, or are believed to not be innocent whether through evidence or admission, need to be put on trial, not kept indefinitely.

And we are not virtually locked down. Our borders are wide open for anyone who wants to come in, as is evidenced by the hundreds illegally crossing the border every week. If we were locked down, they wouldn't be able to get in either.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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reply to post by poedxsoldiervet
 


No, I didn't believe for a minute that Obama was going to be any different. At least not when different means better. I just didn't think he would be ok with detaining people indefinitely without trial seeing as how he was a lawyer once upon a time.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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I think you guys are missing the point. The point is when you are labeled a "terrorist" all of your rights can and will be stripped. The problem is they don't define what a terrorist is and these days there are MANY groups being labeled as terrorists like Ron Paul supporters, Pro Gun people, and troops coming home from Iraq. I made a short video here watch and enjoy...

www.youtube.com...



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 

Hypothetical situation:
Let's says I am an innocent in the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact I rather like most Americans.
Unfortunately the US sends me to a camp for questioning. Waterboarding is involved, amongst other means of persuasion.

Eventually after 2 years they decide I am innocent and send me home with their apologies.

I think in that time I would have lost all my love for Americans and probably become very bitter and hateful. I am not surprised most prisoners have declared that they want to kill Americans ... even if they didn't before.

There was an ex-CIA interrogation officer who recently stated that the current policy is causing more harm than good. In fact they are creating terrorists through their very actions. Don't have the link anymore sorry.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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FLIP FLOP FLIP FLOP .... Kerry-esqe flip flops all over the place!

His severe inexperience is showing.
He made all those campaign promises .. and now that he actually is starting to learn something about what is going on ... he sounds more like John McCain.


Originally posted by andy1033
Well imagine if it was you, and you never did anything wrong, how would you feel.

GITMO isn't exactly full of Sunday School teachers, ya' know.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by tjeffersonsghost
 


Glad somebody gets it.

I heard the report of this on the radio this morning. At first I took the guilty pleasure of laughing in my head about the whole Bush v. Obama nonsense so many still buy into. Then the report mentioned special "Homeland Security Courts" to try some of the "special" cases. This wasnt Inforwars or anythig. This was the morning local radio news and the national news breaks every half hour. CBS I think it was. I nealry turned the car around to grab a rifle for the day just "in case."

Edit to add: Fitting into this topic I recommend any Xbox 360 owners give Clover a try. It's a short little community game but the point the games tries to get across is what's being discussed here. It's a new attempt in the long line of attempts to get the message through.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by thisguyrighthere]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


No, most wont see the big picture. They look at the world through tunnel vision then wonder why their rights are being stripped away right in front of their faces. The reason is because they sell this theft as "needed" for "security" because the government can "protect" you. Let me have my guns and Ill take care of myself.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by deltaalphanovember
 


It also recently came to light that at least one attack on US soil has been prevented because of the techniques they used so it hasn't all been for nothing. The torture of innocent people, if in fact that has happened, is inexcusable of course but do you really think that anyone who is guilty would actually admit it if they know that claiming innocence and claiming torture will get them freed without having to give up any information they have and without having to go through a trial?

I can't for the life of me understand why these people haven't all been put on trial yet.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Jenna]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


The problem i have with this and why you assume that i think they are all innocent, is because we do not know, what happened to them, i.e being tortured people will tell people anything, and me knowing tptb, know that they can make up anything about anyone. Sick how the real world works.

I am not saying everyone is innocent, i am saying that the majority probably are, but who is to know who is or who is not. When authority tfigures make mistakes in these cases they usually just keep pushing until they get anyone they want, and you must know that. Does not matter how many have done anything.

The problem is that everyone outside russia and china, are in danger of being called terroirists for no reason what so ever. All it takes if you are foreign, is for some nut who knows you to ring up americans like dhs or something, and just say your a threat.

Everyones life is under threat in these circumstances, when a country ahs so much power to do anything they want.



[edit on 5/14/2009 by andy1033]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by tjeffersonsghost
 


I think you're missing the point, because you have no idea what to do with actual terrorists, you're only interested in those who are detained in error.

Seatbelts are bad because my friend drove his car into a lake and it caused him to drown.

Forget the thousands who have been saved.

The world is not perfect and there are no absolutes.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


Jenna, you are right. They should be trialled.

They should have been put on trial within a few days of capture. After all, they were placed into detention based on the fact that your government must had reasonable doubt as to their guilt. In other words they had some sort of 'proof' already?
Show the world this proof and all doubts from the rest of the world would disappear. It's not like the world is asking for state secrets.

I would have volunteered to fight for the US in Afghanistan back in 2001. Now? Don't ask.

[edit on 14/5/2009 by deltaalphanovember]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by andy1033
 


Many of them may very well be innocent, which is why them being held indefinitely without trial doesn't sit right with me. They need to be put on trial and released or convicted as appropriate to weed out the ones who are innocent and get them out of there.

And you're right, we don't know what has happened to any of them really. We don't know who was tortured and who wasn't. We don't know who is guilty and only claiming innocence. Which again is why they need to be put on trial, not held indefinitely.

I really don't see how anyone thinks the US has any more power than any other country. How is it that we have so much more power than the rest of the world? Why do you think we do?



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 11:35 AM
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Perhaps this underscores what I've said all along about these detainees - maybe the government knows something about them that we don't that they cannot reveal to the public. Perhaps now that Obama is in office and privy to that information he now "gets it", he now understands why GWB did what he had to do. Perhaps Obama is now going to do likewise.

This may not be a conspiracy to repress the rights of middle-easterners at all, although I'm sure some of you would love to continue believing that's true. Maybe this is for the good of our own country. Oh, God FORBID the president should look out for the best interests of OUR soldiers and OUR country and OUR citizens, right?

Sometimes I really believe a lot of you would rather put the safety of our own countrymen aside just so other evil men in this world can go about freely and continue imposing their brand of terror on the rest of the world. Freedom for all people? NO! Not when they're violently trying to impose their religion on other nations!



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