Here Are a Few of the Torture Photos Obama Doesn't Want You To See

Sorry, but these photos aren't the same ones that Obama is not releasing. The photos on the blog were already released..they are available on Salon.com.

I have a feeling that the photos were FAR worse than these.

Originally posted by constantwonder
thats just rediculous everyone knows that the top dems in congress were also brifed on this and didnt give a rats hind quarters that it was happenening why dont you take your left wing smack talk elsewhere. The dems had just as much to do with this as the republicans. this isnt a partisan discussion at all and your statement is factless and totally inproper

and i think everyone is forgetting that is any administration was worried about these photos being seen some poor yokel on the net would not have them to post on ATS.

You can try to switch the argument to "who knew" if you like, but no one with a clear mind is buying it. WHO KNEW is less important right now than WHAT HAPPENED and WHO ORDERED IT? And you know that this is just an attempt at distraction.

1. Torture is illegal.
   
2. Waterboarding is and always has been Torture. Not Torture "lite," but Torture. Just because someone may "get the sense or feeling" that pouring a little water over someone's face is "not all that bad" isn't a good enough justification (Mr. Sean Hannity). It's Torture. Period!
   
3. The Bush Administration authorized Waterboarding and, therefore, authorized Torture.
   
4. We now know that more information was gathered BEFORE torture techniques were employed rather than after (see the hearing on torture a few days ago). And even this point is not relevant. Torture is illegal! Therefore the argument of its ineffectiveness is irrelevant.
   
5. We know that, to gather even some credible information while waterboarding, the technique had to be used over 80 times.
   

This is NOT time to move forward and not backward. This is time to reflect on how our leaders steered this country to a dark place, punish those that overstepped their authority and committed crimes, and figure out how to make sure this never happens again.

reply to post by impressme


I have always assumed that torture of all kinds take place during war and during interegation of those who are out to kill us, or vice versa. It has always been a given. I never dwelled on it, because it happens and always has happened, it gives leverage to whoever is applying the torture. I have never wanted to see what it looks like, I know it is a neccesary evil. Now that I have seen what the likes of Sadam did to his people, and now this, as horrible as it may look to some of you, IMO, it looks quite tame by comparison. My father was a POW during the Veitnam war, he had unbelievable scars on his back and legs and chest, most of what I see here is about messing with their mind, the body injuries look to be mild, again, by comparison to what I have seen, such as my father's injuries. I am not deeply concerned about this except that I think showing the pics are injurous and ignorant. War is hell, no matter what.

Originally posted by Welfhard
It's sooo stupid. Torture as a means of confession?! My goodness, woh ever thought it would be a good method of getting real and factual information, himself, needs to be tortured. There is only one thing that torture is good for and that is making people suffer.

I think i can put a damper on alot of peoples concerns here....

We used the intensified interrogation techniques to extract USEFUL INFORMATION not CONFESSIONS.

We dont need them to confess to anything. If we ask them where the bomb is and they dont say anything but we KNOW that they know where it is, we can extract the valuable information from them when we override their strong will to keep quiet.

If we waterboard a guy that tells us the bomb is under the table and it clearly is not we know that this particular guy doesnt know anything. Some guys like Sheik Muhammed had such a strong will and so much information that he required ALOT of interrogation and he eventually gave up info that saved american lives.

But...playing the other side you have to think that some of these higher up level guys have been selected to get caught in some cases...A point I realised after watching the movie Body of Lies (i know its fictional but it makes sense)

I don't believe the pictures we see here are torture at all. I'm not saying they are good by any means, I just dont believe that they are "torture", I think they are more like cases of brutality. I guarantee that some of the same things you see in these pictures happens in our very own prisions right here in America.

I also believe that Obama should pull our troops out of the middle east and let them run their country to the ground! I dont believe that Americans should be there dying for people that dont want them there.

If any of you want to see more about this Abu Ghraib "torture" just rent or buy the movie "Standard operating Procedure". It's a documentary about everything that happened there, with all the photos (unedited) and they even interview alot of the people you see in the photos with the prisoners. I can tell you from watching the documentary that the picture with the guy going to punch the inmate was just a pose, he never really punched the guy, he just posed for the camera. Go see it for yourselves.

While the photos aren't something most people like to look at, and they aren't very attractive, what do they really show? Not much of anything. It's absurd to say that these are the photos that Obama doesn't want you to see. Good marketing for the post though.

Ir-regardless of your opinion of the wars we are currently involved with, war is war. The purpose of war is to kill more of the other guy then he can kill of your guys. I think we are doing a pretty good job of that right now. I am not saying that this is a good or a bad thing - Just a fact.

I would rather our guys do more damage to them then they can do to us. I would rather our guys keep them far away from us. I am glad that there are Americans willing to take the challenge of facing the dangers and horrors of war to allow the rest of the chance to sit around our computers in relative safety and criticize their actions and motivations.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake some of these guys made was documenting their actions. If you don't want people to see what you are doing, STOP TAKING PICTURES!

Why do people document their crimes and them act so surprised when their proof is discovered?

[edit on 16-5-2009 by veterator]

Originally posted by tommy_boy
You can try to switch the argument to "who knew" if you like, but no one with a clear mind is buying it. WHO KNEW is less important right now than WHAT HAPPENED and WHO ORDERED IT? And you know that this is just an attempt at distraction.

1. Torture is illegal.
   
2. Waterboarding is and always has been Torture. Not Torture "lite," but Torture. Just because someone may "get the sense or feeling" that pouring a little water over someone's face is "not all that bad" isn't a good enough justification (Mr. Sean Hannity). It's Torture. Period!
   
3. The Bush Administration authorized Waterboarding and, therefore, authorized Torture.
   
4. We now know that more information was gathered BEFORE torture techniques were employed rather than after (see the hearing on torture a few days ago). And even this point is not relevant. Torture is illegal! Therefore the argument of its ineffectiveness is irrelevant.
   
5. We know that, to gather even some credible information while waterboarding, the technique had to be used over 80 times.
   

This is NOT time to move forward and not backward. This is time to reflect on how our leaders steered this country to a dark place, punish those that overstepped their authority and committed crimes, and figure out how to make sure this never happens again.

So you're less concerned with people that helped plan and gave the "okay" for it to happen, than the people that were just in charge at the time, and not present at/for the meetings. That's nice.

If someone was briefed about it, and did not say, "WHOA WAIT WHAT?!" about it, and object to it; if someone was told they had legal counsel tell them it was okay to do this, and did not say, "Does that mean you intend to use it?" or "I sure hope you don't intend on using it, though;" if someone, in a position of authority over the incident, had any inkling of an idea that this might happen, or might be happening, and did not attempt to stop it, they are also responsible for it, just as much as the person that ordered it, for they became enablers. They became too wrapped up in themselves and current party lines to care about morality, and then when it finally becomes an issue, they kick and scream all the new party lines they want to, but in the end, it becomes apparent that no one in those congressional meetings gave a tinker's damn about waterboarding or torture, as long as it did not impact their lives or political career.

There is no distraction here. There is an effort to find out what exactly happened. We all know Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, whoever else you want to villify caused it/ordered it/however you want to put it, but if you go after them, you have to go after them all. There is no "Oh, well... These people were only PARTLY responsible, so... I don't think they should be held accountable." line. There is only one side to the truth, and if you want a "truth commission" to be formed, then you'd best be damn well sure you want the results, and not scream "DISTRACTION! MISINFO!" when someone in the current administration comes under scrutiny for it.

edit for grammar

[edit on 16-5-2009 by Highground]

reply to post by space cadet
It’s a shame man refuses to progress to a higher morality. Torture is barbaric and it’s about time for man to develop a less sadistic method for acquiring information. Take for example, the nineteen alleged 911 hijackers. At first, we were assured that these nineteen men were totally responsible for everything that occurred on 911. Only a year later,
FBI Director Robert Mueller did a 180 and announced that there was no proof to link the alleged hijackers to 911 after all.

In September 2002, [FBI Director Robert Mueller] told CNN twice that there is "no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers." [Insight]

whatreallyhappened.com...

Most people do not understand how it feels to be tortured. It is the most horrific physical and emotional pain and anguish imaginable. Many people die as a result of torture and those who survive it suffer lifelong emotional and physical scars. I know first hand as I survived almost fifteen years of torture myself. Surviving such an ordeal leaves one’s mind disturbed. In my case, fourteen years of therapy just barely made me functional. Still, there is underlying anger that cannot ever be dealt with. Even today, I am on medication for PTSD. Not only has this affected me but everyone close to me. I will carry this burden to my grave.

In my opinion torture is not acceptable and it gives evil men a reason to use violence against unarmed weaker men. Our solders have been condition to hate this nationality of men, because of what they supposedly did to us on 911. But Muller said that there is no proof linking the alleged hijackers to 911 and since there were no WMD’s found in Iraq what was the point of the ongoing, completely unproductive torture of the prisoners? Could it had been that Bush and Cheney needed some of these prisoners to just admit to 911 to satisfy their need for the wars If you want proof that our government has lied to us about everything regarding the 911 terrorists here are some excellent examples….

Remains of 2 Sept. 11 hijackers identified
NEW YORK (CNN) -- New York medical examiners using DNA samples have identified the remains of two of the 10 suicide hijackers who crashed jetliners into the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, officials said Thursday.

www.cnn.com...

Government Claims It Has Found DNA of Alleged 9/11 Hijackers
Forensic investigators have recovered the charred remains of most of the 9/11 hijackers — to honor a pledge that they would never be buried with the victims,” reports the Daily Express. “Flesh or bone from 13 of the 19 Al Qaeda terrorists who flew passenger jets into the Twin Towers in New York and the Pentagon in Washington have now been identified.”

mcnastyreport.blogspot.com...

Remains of 9/11 hijackers identified

news.bbc.co.uk...

So, now the world is thrilled that the FBI has found the evil culprits who murdered 3,000 people in New York and the number one ring leader was Osama Bin Laden. Now as time goes on it turn out that seven out of nineteen hijackers are alive and well, so much for the FBI DNA. The question one must ask is why did the FBI lie about their DNA.

7 Of 19 'Hijackers' Alive After
911 - New OBL Video A Phoney

www.rense.com...

9/11 Hijackers ALIVE!

www.youtube.com...

Tracking the 19 Hijackers
What are they up to now?
At least 9 of them survived 9/11
A former high-level intelligence official told me, "Whatever trail was left
was left deliberately--for the F.B.I. to chase." New Yorker 10/1/01 by Seymour Hersh

911research.wtc7.net...

Now with all this being proven and eight years later the FBI does not know who the hijackers really are here is the proof.

Robert Mueller, Director of the FBI, has twice been forced to admit on CNN that there is "no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers".

911review.org...

In September 2002, [FBI Director Robert Mueller] told CNN twice that there is "no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers." [Insight]
So, one fact is apparent. If those who hijacked the 9/11 airplanes were using stolen identities, then we don't know who they were or who they worked for. We can't. It's impwhatreallyhappened.com...

whatreallyhappened.com...

FBI Admits: No Evidence Links 'Hijackers' to
9-11

www.uncle-scam.com...


Now, one must wonder who were the real culprits that really carried out 911, because we now know with absolute proof that, there were no 19 hijackers.
So I ask why are “we” torturing innocent people, in two foreign countries. To believe a part of our government is not capable of pulling of a stunt as 911 is “ignorant" in its self.
It is obvious why the Bush administration was so desperate to find ways to pass laws to torture people. The Bush administration broke the Geneva Convention agreements and the laws of our Constitution, just so they can produce an enemy who is forced to sign away their life and freedom and admit under extreme torture that “they” committed the crimes of 911.











[edit on 17-5-2009 by impressme]

Originally posted by its bologna
Sorry, but these photos aren't the same ones that Obama is not releasing. The photos on the blog were already released..they are available on Salon.com.

I have a feeling that the photos were FAR worse than these.

Yes my friend! you are completely right about this!

This looks like a disinformation operation trying to cover up the real reasons and the real photos Obama stopped the release of this week.

By showing you these tame picture here, they can say to the members here:

Look this is what all the fuzz is about, and as you can see it's nothing special - so move along now nothing here to see and be upset about, so start supporting our torture.

Sorry! but check out my 'Hersh Abu Ghraib' thread and see some of the pictures there.

People with half a brain can just imagine how much severe the photos and video material that B.O. and TPTB now wanna supress really is.

The pictures in my thread is just the tip of an ice mountain.

reply to post by impressme


The identity of the 911 hijackers is known dont believe propaganda anti war websites they mis quote and mis lead.As for torture there is different levels of coercion id say water boarding was a mistake they figured no physical injuries its ok in retrospect that was a mistake. But in order to get people to talk coercion does have to be used these people believe they are doing the will of god. Which means they will not volunteer information cannot be bribed and if they believe what here doing is right cannot be approached from a moral issue. That only leaves love and fear they love there god so anything else is second. So now where left with fear to gain information. But heres the rub too much fear is counter productive it leads to mis information so you have a tight rope to walk.

That is why there is procedures in interrogations called fear up and fear down it is designed to break a persons will which is what stops them from talking in the first place.

Here is one technique for example to get information you put prisoners in a room bound and gaged you put a curtain up where you can see a silhouette through the curtain. you have an extra gag in you pocket and you grab one of the prisoners take them behind the curtain. The other prisoners will see you and you pull out a pistol and hold it to the prisoners head. and make it look like you removed there gag. you start screaming to talk or i will kill you of corse the prisoner cant talk stil has on a gag. you then discarge the pistol so the bullet passes by the prisoner while at the same time knocking him off his feet.Do to the fact he is bound it will look like he is in the throughs of death when he hits the ground and quickly have 2 guys drag him off from view.Then you walk back out and pick someone else usually urine stains might help figure out who was truly scared put him in that situation then suddenly reverse gear and take him to a private room offer food and drink try to play im going to try to help you thing (fear down). And see what they say.

There is other forms of psych torture hot cold sleep deprivation i dont feel messing with there head to get information is wrong however i dont believe physical torture to be necessary nor should it be used.

The problem were dealing with is people that are anti war will not make any distinctions it is all torture. In there world people tell us stuff because they really like us and want to help. And no one ever intends to hurt other people blow up buildings and other wise do bad things for there cause. I agree bush handled alot wrong but in his defense he bought us 8 years of no attacks on US soil and trust me 9/11 was only supposed to be the beginning Ossama Bin Laden stated this right after the bombing. Do you think something changed his mind? I do a bunch of soldiers showing up in his backyard going hey come out and play. What you dont want to play hey wait where you going? And then from that point on he had to manage his network from hiding and even terrorist organizations need structure which he wasnt abled to provide.

reply to post by dragonridr

The identity of the 911 hijackers is known

Really, who knows? Because the American people have not been informed? If our government knows, why are they keeping it a secret?

My question to you is why are we still torturing people when it has been “proven” there was no terrorist from a foreign country who did 911.

dont believe propaganda anti war websites they mis quote and mis lead.

Like I am an idiot, and I just don’t know how to select proper reading material. You really do not know what you are talking about and you assume too many things from the messenger. Maybe you should stop watching propaganda television and stop reading the Newspaper since they just parrot a lying media, television is the last place I would depend on true information their job is to lie and mis-lead and mis- quote.

As far as Obama not releasing the new torture pictures I have to assume they are so sickening and disgusting, that if they got out the world will hate our military and our government that I can understand. However, what I cannot digest is Obama made it very clear that NO ONE is above the law, and so far, there has been no accountability.

So what happens when those who ordered the crime of torture are high-ranking officials in the executive branch? What if the torturers were CIA and military officers, answering to the Attorney General, the Vice President, the National Security Advisor, or even the President himself? Can these people be held to account?

President Obama has taken a firm stand against torture, but has gone to great lengths to avoid answering questions about whether officials in the former Bush administration should be held to account for violations of U.S. and international laws. Responding to a question from Huffington Post reporter Sam Stein about whether to prosecute former Bush administration officials, the President said that, "nobody's above the law and, if there are clear instances of wrongdoing, that people should be prosecuted just like any ordinary citizen." But he hedged against prosecutions, saying that, "generally speaking, I'm more interested in looking forward than I am in looking backwards."

But the door to accountability is not closed. Though he has said he does not favor a Congressional inquiry, Obama has--grudgingly--said that it is up to the attorney general to investigate whether laws were broken.

www.huffingtonpost.com...





[edit on 17-5-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by cbianchi513


You either live in a cave or are willfully ignorant of the truth.

1 - not one piece of actionable intelligence has been obtained from waterboarding in this war.

2 - it was considered torture by the U.S. when the Japanese did it to our men so what changed aside from our standard of what makes us such a great country?

3 - It is the slowest and least effective method used to obtain information and would never help in that hypothetical "ticking time bomb" scenario.

4 - Nobody was being tortured in order to obtain the info in the PDB about Al Quieda striking within the borders of our country and yet we had that intel and even failed to act on it.

5 - Not every person in detention was captured on the battlefield or holding a weapon. Many of them were rounded up by other Iraqui's and contractors and dropped off to our men in exchange for money. If they were all in the middle of trying to kill an American, then why have so many been set free? Why are so many others still held with no charges? Based on your premise, charges would be the easiest step.

Stop kidding yourselves. Waterboarding does nothing to help us and everything to hurt our reputation. All the crying about how Obama releasing these photos would hurt us. Um...what about the people doing the things in the pictures? What about the people taking the pictures? How are they helping us at all?

And this argument that releasing the pics would put our soldiers in harms way is insane. Are you not aware that they are already in danger of being killed? Do you think the pictures will make the 'enemy' want to kill us over and over again? That is not possible, you know so you really needn't worry about it. They are in harm's way now and it is because they are there and that has nothing to do with pictures.

reply to post by impressme


I do happen to know much, unfortunately for me, about torture and recovery from such, also the diagnosis of PTSD, I don't feel the need to give details, but I have been a victim of torture, and I do still suffer with PTSD. And I still understand the need for the measure of torture.

Yes it may seem to be barbaric, and maybe it is, but considering it has been done for thousands of years ( George Bush didn't invent torture, neither did Cheney) by every nation and tribe as an effective measure of divining information as a strategy to stay a step ahead of your adversary or enemy, why is it that the US must be called out on it? And for such mild versions of it, again, by comparision.

I cannot read all of your post, you went off into a 911 rant.

reply to post by space cadet

I cannot read all of your post, you went off into a 911 rant.

So sorry the truth offends you. All I was doing was proving an analogy; your only response is to ridicule my post. If you cannot spend the time to read, someone post why bother responding.

I do happen to know much, unfortunately for me, about torture and recovery from such, also the diagnosis of PTSD, I don't feel the need to give details, but I have been a victim of torture, and I do still suffer with PTSD. And I still understand the need for the measure of torture.

Every person who has been “severely” tortured will disagree with you, I suggest you research about PTSD and torture; obviously something you have not experience.
The proof was the statement you made below:

Yes it may seem to be barbaric, and maybe it is, but considering it has been done for thousands of years

No one that has been tortured would never make excuses that it is ok to torture.

And for such mild versions of it, again, by comparision.

Mild versions! Again you do not know what you are talking about, who told you all the torture that we did to the captives was mild? I do not know what you been reading or watching, but it has been all over the internet and the Press, that some of the “mild” torture we did has kill at lease 26 prisoners. Yes, some were torture to death with great pleasure, by some very sadistic military officials and “you” want to down play it as *mild*

Senate Panel's Report Links Detainees' Murders to Bush's Torture Policy

A combination of “enhanced interrogation” techniques approved by high-level Bush administration officials coupled with a series of brutal beatings administered by military interrogators were directly responsible for the December 2002 deaths of two detainees at Bagram airbase in Afghanistan, according to a report released last week by the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The report classified their deaths as homicides. In other words, the two prisoners were tortured to death.

www.pubrecord.org...
Just “mild” cases!

Medical Investigations of Homicides of Prisoners of War: How Many Detainees Died of Homicide by Torture?
How Many Detainees Died of Homicide by Torture?
In March 2005, the US Armed Forces said that it suspected that 26 deaths were due to criminal homicides.

www.medscape.com...
What do you call MURDER, when you have these prisoners in your custody under lock and key how in the h… are they a threat to anyone its not enough that most of these dead men were NEVER charged for being a terrorist or anything else. Just some “mild” cases

Hard Evidence of U.S. Torturing Prisoners to Death Ignored by Corporate Media
Military autopsy reports provide indisputable proof that detainees are being tortured to death while in US military custody. Yet the US corporate media are covering it with the seriousness of a garage sale for the local Baptist Church.
A recent American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) posting of one of forty-four US military autopsy reports reads as follows: "Final Autopsy Report: DOD 003164, (Detainee) Died as a result of asphyxia (lack of oxygen to the brain) due to strangulation as evidenced by the recently fractured hyoid bone in the neck and soft tissue hemorrhage extending downward to the level of the right thyroid cartilage. Autopsy revealed bone fracture, rib fractures, contusions in mid abdomen, back and buttocks extending to the left flank, abrasions, lateral buttocks. Contusions, back of legs and knees; abrasions on knees, left fingers and encircling to left wrist. Lacerations and superficial cuts, right 4th and 5th fingers. Also, blunt force injuries, predominately recent contusions (bruises) on the torso and lower extremities. Abrasions on left wrist are consistent with use of restraints. No evidence of defense injuries or natural disease. Manner of death is homicide. Whitehorse Detainment Facility, Nasiriyah, Iraq."

www.commondreams.org...
Nothing new here, our media is always covering up for our government and the military, both parties are happy to keep the Americans people in the dark, So there won’t be any “accountability.”
I supposed since every one is doing it all over the world, we should just accept torture as good thing, furthmore we have no right to prosecute police officers for torturing and killing prisoners, and we should not prosecute parents who torture and kill their children, and we should have not prosecuted our military men who tortured prisoners during WW2. What is different in this war in Iraq and Afghanistan that there should be “no accountability” on torture? NOTHING!

Every person who has been “severely” tortured will disagree with you, I suggest you research about PTSD and torture; obviously something you have not experience.

reply to post by impressme


Apparently not 'every person'. I do not agree with you, and the torture I endured was physical,and mental, incuded sleep and food depravation, being disfigured, stripped, and much more that turns my stomach as I type, I think I pretty much qualify as a victim of torture and I don't think am am the only person who has suffered true torture tactics and still understand that when it comes to interogation and the safety of our country and others, it is neccesary to conduct methods of torture at times.

My reference to a 911 rant: you are relating everything to 911 and your disbelief of the events or who committed them. I am not putting 911 and torture of prisoners together, I am simply stating that torture, when it comes to military operations is fact, and always has been, and is at times neccessary.

reply to post by impressme


The article you posted wasnt torture it was more revenge. Hatab had been captured a month earlier with a weapon from the Army unit that included Pfc. Jessica Lynch, the Marines said. Lynch’s unit was ambushed in March in Nasiriyah. Eleven soldiers were killed and six were captured They knew this ingividual was involved with 11 other soldiers death and unfortunately went too far. Hatab had been subjected to arbitrary beatings since he arrived in the camp, because the Marines believed he had been involved in the rape and torture of Jessica Lynch. Hatab was already in very bad shape when Hernandez was ordered to hose him off, burn his clothes, and tie him to a stake, so he wouldn't foul other prisoner's clothes.

This was not done to extract information it was not condoned by the military it was anger taking over on a bunch of reservists who were itimately familiar with the other people this man killed. Since they are a reserve unit all the individuals would live in the same area and get to know each other thru drills. Probably even knew there family members as well. Now none of this makes it right what they did in fact there was a court martial over the incident.

To say this was torture is woefully mis leading this was murder it was revenge but it wasnt torture. Having been in combat you develop a hatred (no maybe to strong a word ) towards your enemy its necessary to be able to kill in combat. What these marine reservists did was wrong violated every military procedure for handling captives but sometimes human nature takes over.How many times have you heard someone say if any body tried to rape my daughter id kill them. These people form bonds just as close as any family.

Lets use our brains here everybody..... Why were these people beat up a little bit? Ummmmm because they had information about attacks against the US?????? Or maybe because they had information regarding attacks abroad? If these people were not smacked up a bit, there would have been more 911 disasters. There would be more Americans dead. Lets think..... would these scumbags do this to Americans, have they done this to Americans. Yes they have! Have they gone so far as to kill Americans to try and make a point and to try and get information? YES THEY HAVE! I don't think there is anything wrong with that AT ALL. They want to kill us, they want us wiped off the face of the planet. If we need to beat up some of them to get information to protect us, I say then lets do it NOW! Why are people so worried about protecting the rights of people who want us dead and who have killed so many of us? I say WHO GIVES A S*@T! We need to do whatever is necessary to protect our people! GOOD FOR THE US MILITARY AND ALL THE PEOPLE THAT GOT INFORMATION THIS WAY AND SAVED OUR LIVES!

Originally posted by evil incarnate
reply to post by cbianchi513

 

You either live in a cave or are willfully ignorant of the truth.

1 - not one piece of actionable intelligence has been obtained from waterboarding in this war.

2 - it was considered torture by the U.S. when the Japanese did it to our men so what changed aside from our standard of what makes us such a great country?

3 - It is the slowest and least effective method used to obtain information and would never help in that hypothetical "ticking time bomb" scenario.

4 - Nobody was being tortured in order to obtain the info in the PDB about Al Quieda striking within the borders of our country and yet we had that intel and even failed to act on it.

5 - Not every person in detention was captured on the battlefield or holding a weapon. Many of them were rounded up by other Iraqui's and contractors and dropped off to our men in exchange for money. If they were all in the middle of trying to kill an American, then why have so many been set free? Why are so many others still held with no charges? Based on your premise, charges would be the easiest step.

Stop kidding yourselves. Waterboarding does nothing to help us and everything to hurt our reputation. All the crying about how Obama releasing these photos would hurt us. Um...what about the people doing the things in the pictures? What about the people taking the pictures? How are they helping us at all?

And this argument that releasing the pics would put our soldiers in harms way is insane. Are you not aware that they are already in danger of being killed? Do you think the pictures will make the 'enemy' want to kill us over and over again? That is not possible, you know so you really needn't worry about it. They are in harm's way now and it is because they are there and that has nothing to do with pictures.

1. Incorrect. Waterboarding saved us from a 9/11 style attack on L.A.

2. Incorrect. ONE person, Sanjo Watabe, was accused of waterboarding and it was a urban myth.

3. Incoorect. Drugs, lie detector, slepp depravation are all time intensive.

4. Huh?

5. You hate America. If waterboarding saved your Mom you would complain.

That is to torturous. That shouldn;t be done to our people. Obama should let people know what is going on instead of hiding these things from americans.

Originally posted by Logarock
These perverts have already showed up in our neighborhoods. Remember 911?
When they are not hijacking planes and cutting the throats of flight attendants they are at home beating wives, circumcising their clitoris, honor killing their own daughters and cheering wildly as they saw live coverage of people jumping to their death from the towers. Why there was just a guy out in California a few weeks back that cut his wife head off becouse she wanted a divorce. But this is their way we should try to understand the culture.

You would figure hard guys like this would laugh at water boarding.

OMG! how blind and brainwashed can 1 person be??? I know of no culture that requires a man to cut off his wifes head if she wants a divorce. Thats about as ignorant as tieing rocks to a womans feet and throwing her in water and if she floats she's a witch, if not then it was her time to go to God. Or enslaving people of other races or belief because they are worth less. Or killing off native americans becaus they are primitive and had the audacity to set up tents on our land. "People" do stupid things, are blinded by others or just not right in the head.
"When they aren't conquering other countries and raping women they are at home sniping innocent people in the streets, running through schools shooting at anything that moves, molesting little children and cheering wildly as they saw live footage of bombs destroying buildings that were occupied." Turn your little quote around and think on that one for a minute.
It's easy when everything is only black or white, huh? But in the real world it's not that simple, much gray is out there and you can't say because someone is from the US he's the good guy and an iraqi is evil.

P.S. 911 could have been prevented but instead some "people" decided it would be better to let it happen, AND fundemental terrorism was created by the US government. So who is the bad guy anyway?