Here Are a Few of the Torture Photos Obama Doesn't Want You To See

and i dont think a single word can diminish or dilute the meaning of the statement

I don't care whether you are American or Israeli or Iraqi or Afghani... torturing another human being is wrong.

Just because the other side does it, doesn't mean you have to follow in their footsteps. You are then on their level. If you consider them evil... you are too.

What I don't understand is that we live in the 21st century, yet there is no chemical method to extract information more effective than torture?

How far have we really come as a race when we have to reduce ourselves to barbarism to get information? It is sad, really.

Originally posted by noangels
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed

I thought he was the bad guy?Heres what the New York Times wrote


Mr. Mohammed was indicted in the United States on charges stemming from the Manila plot, but he eluded the F.B.I. in Qatar in 1996. He fled to Afghanistan and met with Osama Bin Laden, where he proposed a plan to train pilots to crash 10 planes into targets in the United States. Mr. bin Laden was not persuaded but he asked Mr. Mohammed to join Al Qaeda, an offer he declined. After the 1998 African embassy bombings by Al Qaeda, however, he accepted Osama’s invitation to move to Afghanistan and pursue the 9/11 plan.

topics.nytimes.com...

So it looks like the old phantom bogey man turned down his plan for 9/11 and he moved to Afganistan to join AQ and persue his 9/11 plan

So when the Taliban asked for proof that Laden was involved in the attacks,I am not surprised that america didnt have any proof!

The Afganistan war is bogus mate,your were duped again-Saudi Arabia should have been your 1st port of call

Maybe if you read a little more Kalik and Osama planned that attacks. Here is alittle bit more inforamtion for you to read.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.guardian.co.uk...


And the smoking gun....
www.telegraph.co.uk...


need I say more mate?

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

Okay one Osama and his thugs were hiding out in Afghanistan, we gave the Taliban a chance to hand them over for murdering American citizens on American soil, they said screw you and we went in.

You obviously do not know the truth so let me educate you a little about the Taliban and Bin Laden.

Taliban Won't Turn Over Bin Laden
Fierce Fighting Rages Between Taliban And Northern Alliance
Sept. 21, 2001

The rejection came in a statement by Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan. Asked whether the Taliban would hand over bin Laden, Zaeef said, "No." But his translator said, "No, not without evidence."

The Taliban made is very clear they wanted “evidences” and “proof” that Bin Laden had something, anything to do with 911. To this day eight years later the FBI, CIA, the Military, have not produce one shed of proof (nothing!) That is why Bin Laden has NOT been charged for doing, or for being an accomplice in the events of 911.

"Our position on this is that if America has proof, we are ready for the trial of Osama bin Laden in light of the evidence."

The Taliban finally let Ben Laden go because our government failed to provide proof that Ben Laden was behind 911.

www.cbsnews.com...

but Saddam did have a connection to Al-Qaida his name is Abu Zarqawi (sp) who was wounded on an afghan battlefield then turned up in Saddam’s hospitals to be treated, if you recall he cut Nick Burgs head off, and we bombed the house he was hiding in.

Al-Qaida had NOTHING to do with 911, Saddam had nothing to do with 911 nether parties did 911 that has already been proven.

We are not the bad guys stop trying to make us out to be, there are a few bad apples in the military those idiots when found are punished worse then you can imagine.

No, the Bush administrations were the bad guys for “lying” to the military and the rest of our government, and the American people. I am not accusing all of our military of being bad, only a handful and the CIA were involved in the torturing of innocent people. To say that our entire military was involved in torture is ignorant in it self.

would the words out of his mouth say he did it? or will you conitue to believe that an incomptant goverment could have planned the attacks and carried them out?


www.telegraph.co.uk...

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

That is a lie reaching for another lie; Saddam gave suicide bombers family’s money.

We have armed both Saddam and OBL...we have armed all kinds of militant groups who suit out interests...and then we turn on them for the same purpose.

The US needs to stay the hell out of other countries affairs! It's our foreign policy that has ruined our standing with the rest of the world...and is also help bleeding the wealth of this country dry!

Thats like saying we should have stayed out of WWII.

War sucks and this is part of war. These terrorist were treated in the manner they deserved. This so called torture saved untold American lives, military and civilian.

A bunch of weenies who have never been in combat say these tactics do not work, back that up by some evidence. What do the actual intel experts say?

Cuba and Venezuela do worse to their own people and the lefties love them. Why the hypocrisy?

reply to post by fooffstarr


You are very mistaken if you think the human race has improved over the last couple thousand years.

Oh, we dress different, our transportation has changed, and we think we know many more things, but when it comes to human nature, we're just as bloody and barbaric as any before us.

And if you think you aren't, it's because you haven't been put in the "right" situation.

And who knows? One day you may get your chance. And if you happen to survive, like me, you'll look back and laugh at your youthful innocence and mis-concepts.

We haven't made progress. As I look around the world, I'd say we've actually regressed. We've actually amplified our barbarity.

Look carefully. It's hiding just behind this thin veneer called civilization.

Changing jackets? That's not changing.

Originally posted by smokingmonkey
War sucks and this is part of war. These terrorist were treated in the manner they deserved. This so called torture saved untold American lives, military and civilian.

Read the thread, the vast majority aren't terrorists or insurgents. We are talking less than 6%...

A bunch of weenies who have never been in combat say these tactics do not work, back that up by some evidence.

What does combat have to do with detaining prisoners? Supposing I entertained that thought for a minute even unlawful combatants have "to be treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention."

What do the actual intel experts say?

Read for yourself: www.heraldnet.com...

He said the harsh techniques were "ineffective, slow and unreliable and, as a result, harmful to our efforts to defeat al-Qaida."

Cuba and Venezuela do worse to their own people and the lefties love them. Why the hypocrisy?

Why do you lovers of violence usually assume that every single person who speaks out against it is a loony "leftie"? If I had to be branded something it'd be a centrist, you are aware that there are right wingers in this thread who aren't afraid to call it like it is: torture of innocents.

Extremism of any kind is never good.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Goathief]

I'm curious to how many of the members of ATS who sit behind their keyboards everyday, read through a thread like this, and post their opinion about how what we do in Iraq is wrong/evil/barbaric.

Then I wonder of those people, how many of them have ever been in a war zone, been fired at, have experienced a morter going off near them, or felt the wind of a round buzz by your ear, because it missed your skull by less than 2 inches. Have any one of you experienced one of your brothers in arms shot to his death?

I dont condone torture by any stretch of the imagination, but no one is this country should speak a single bad word about ANY of our Marines/Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen unless they have experienced what we have over there.

It doesnt matter if you agree with our government or not. It doesnt matter if you think we are there for the right reasons or not. The fact is, we are given orders, and its our duty to carry them out. Say what you will, but I can guarantee you that 99.9 percent of the nay sayers on this board would do the exact same thing that is seen in those pictures if they were in that situation.

Being in a war zone changes you FOREVER. The guys who are doing those sorts of things are not evil people. Evil is what TOOK us there in the first place, and it goes back further than 9/11. Unfortunately, the truth is you will never understand unless you've been there.

It just makes me sick to see people on here degrade our military for stuff like this. Its happening on both sides. Is it right? Absolutely not. Is it gonna happen no matter what? You better believe it. But when the MSM starts making reports, take a moment before you bash the military and think about why we are there in the first place. And maybe, just maybe, try to put yourself in OUR boots.

I think this is the real reason why there is such a fuzz with Obama and ACLU about these tapes and photos right now!

"Here Are a Few of the Torture Photos Obama Doesn't Want You To See"

Children sodomized in front of their mothers!

Lindsey Graham, Republican Senator from South Carolina, saw the pictures and the videotapes along with the rest of the Senate.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. we're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience." He did not elaborate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by Chevalerous


That's probably correct, the allegations were made years ago but there was no evidence at the time and many dismissed it as propaganda. I guess time will tell.

Oh, I almost forgot - sodomising children is all fair in love & war too, torture lovers?

No army of any nation is innocent.

If you truly think your military consists of angels and saviors, you're living in a world of sad sad sad denial and ignorance.

Just sayin'

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
No army of any nation is innocent.

If you truly think your military consists of angels and saviors, you're living in a world of sad sad sad denial and ignorance.

Just sayin'

I dont claim anyone to be innocent. I'm making the point that everyone likes to point a finger or have a negative opinion, yet they have NO idea whats going on over there.

reply to post by dooper


I agree with you.

My point was exactly how you said. We haven't changed.

If the world was the modernized, moral place I'd like it to be we would have moved past resorting to violence in tough situations. But we haven't.

In reality, you can see it from childhood. The schoolyard bully, who is incapable of resolving situations without resorting to his fists.

The vicious CEO, who rather than face problems and control them, would make scapegoats of staff and take a bonus.

All around the world, all walks of life, we haven't changed. We just hide it better.

I think it is terribly sad. My morals tell me to abhor torture and all it entails, but as you said, who knows what I would be capable of doing in certain circumstances.

Thing is mate, you've been through that and come out the other side. You have the life experience that molds your opinion. My life experience may be less, but the gap it leaves is replaced by my upbringing and moral code.

And until I'm forced to change my perspective through a personal experience, I still believe that in the modern world, we as people should be able to overcome this need to use violence in place of intelligence.

Originally posted by Goathief
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

That's probably correct, the allegations were made years ago but there was no evidence at the time and many dismissed it as propaganda. I guess time will tell.

Oh, I almost forgot - sodomising children is all fair in love & war too, torture lovers?

That seems like an awefully ignorant thing to say. Do you believe that there is a single person here who thinks sodomizing children is okay? Do you belive that there is a single person here who loves torture? I'd like to see you prove a comment like that.

No one wants to see or hear about these types of things. As I stated before, its going to happen no matter what. I don't like it, you don't like it, the families who are affected don't like it, but what can be done? It certainly doesnt help anyone to make comments like you did, friend.

reply to post by impressme


Remember all, this happened before Obama was even close to being on the scene. Don't drag him into Bush's political nightmare.

The eye popping Question is....... "What and when are the moral sheep gonna do to hold Bush & Cheney accountable????" The two term morons did all of this.

i will probably be the only person to say this.
but i keep it real .

who gives a crap!!!!!

there are 100's of thousand's of these people running around wanting to kill me and my children folk's.
all under the guise of a peaceful religion.

yes i agree it's bad...
but i could honestly give one piece of owl crap about it.


do you honestly think the Taliban..thats right those folk's in them picture's..
Care if your american kid's or wife live?
Heck no they don't.

So why is it OHHHHHHHHHHH MY GOD..look what america has done?

heck we just stooped to there level is all.

Point is yes 2 wrong's don't make a right.

But when one of the wrong's .
the Taliban..is being portrayed as martyr's in people's eye's is sickening to me.
after all they have done...and continue to do.
sorry but my sympathy with this is thin.

but like i said i hold my belief firm.



wrong yes.

bad idea ? maybe.

did they probably diverse the arse beating they got in them pic's?
Yes
Our government doesn't go around beating people up especially..when we are trying to be the good guy's.

has the fbi or military ever beat you or bombed your kid's?
no.
has the taliban?
yes.

So whats the big deal here?

[edit on 14-5-2009 by TheAmused]

...And until I'm forced to change my perspective through a personal experience, I still believe that in the modern world, we as people should be able to overcome this need to use violence in place of intelligence.

You are absolutely right. And, as you said, changing of your perspective through personal experience...thats why I try to defend these guys because what they go through on a daily basis in a war zone...its not something you can put to words. You know? There are reasons why we have military personnel coming home from those places with permanant mental illness, and its not because they spent 1 year or more sipping on margaritas by the pool.

I'm simply terrorized by some here who still believe America had to invade whatever country, and kidnapping and tortturing innocent people because of Saddam.

America has been acting way over the limits, people. Comparing the American government's actions in Afghanistan and Iraq to what the Third Reich did in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Austria, France back in 1938-1944 will never be an understatement anymore. Never again. And these photos are the final and hard truth.

This is pure Nazism in a very "eatable" way for both the media and the public.

I'm still wondering what all you Americans waiting for. Isn't it time for a Revolution? Haven't you or the WORLD had enough of this Imperialism? Get off your big couches, drop your nasty burgers, your I-Pod's, your Coca-Colas, AND FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY AND YOURSELVES GODDAMIT!

There are many things that are outraging me myself in my own country that are making me stand up and fight. But if I were American I'd already be overtaking the #ing White House and the "Federal" Reserve, dismissing Obama, dissoluting Congress and the House of Representatives, and overtaking this whole bunch of political and banking clowns that own your asses, and have been owning YOU, YOUR HOUSE, YOUR FAMILY, YOUR LABOR, YOUR WAGES FOR THE LAST 100 YEARS.

YOUR COUNTRY HAS A HISTORY LIKE NON OTHER! LIVE UP TO IT!

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Toorop]

reply to post by fooffstarr


Let us hope you never, ever, have to find out what you are capable of.

Because you will be absolutely shocked and sickened the first time the monster inside gets out.

I volunteered three times for combat. Not because I was bored, but the military wouldn't have brothers in combat at the same time.

It was bad enough the first time for me. No use in them even having to have a first time, so it worked out for everyone.