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Here Are a Few of the Torture Photos Obama Doesn't Want You To See

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posted on May, 14 2009 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


I think you may be missing the point dooper. Yes, war is hell. BUT it's not so much the possible terrorists, yes, I won't call one one until there is evidence, that's the problem. What the problem is that America has lost it's way in the world. It used to be a beacon of pride and fairness. I'm concerned about America. I would like to see her as she was. A truly great and respected nation.




posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Oh no, my wife accidentally gave me a paper cut - perhaps I should try her for war crimes too.


You know as well as I do that the circumstances, emotions and techniques are far different under torture compared to accidents. Why don't you address the question instead of that ludicrous reply? Would you willingly expose a detainee to 40,000 volts, prolonging the experience for as long as possible trying to inflict as much pain as you can knowing full well that the person is almost certainly innocent? You're comfortable with that?

Yes or no - and why?



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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I only took a quick peek at the pictures and all I can say is, sad as it is this is the way things happen in war.

I don't like it......... but this is the way it is.

I believe what the Americans do/did is probably better then what other Countries have done to our people like cutting the heads off.

Two wrongs don't make a right but.........................



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by amatrine
Well, we have to remember these people were not tried with a jury.

We have people here in the prisons in the USA who kill, murder etc, and they are not treated like this. In the US they also get a fair trail.


You can be a pacifist all you want but reality is THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT US CITIZENS AND ARE NOT AFFORDED US CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

I dont even think they should be tried under Iraqi Law since most of them were caught fighting either us or the Iraqi Police/Military



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Okay. I don't want to play the deflection game anymore, since you won't answer to the contrary, I will assume you know full well how we would fight them, the same way the insurgents and the VC fought us. You know it is hypocritical to demand largely untrained men who are ripped from their daily rat race, to face you in direct uniformed combat, or they are undeserving of any respect or dignity...when they use the EXACT same tactics we would use against a foreign army, or our own government should they ever turn on us.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by FadeToBlack
I don't agree that these torture acts are necessary. However, the release of these photos only pose a threat to our troops within Iraq and Afghanistan.

Torture. Mistreatment of human life. It happens. That does not mean it is right. We all know that our government is hypocritical. You can stop pretending that you have no idea.

I say block the release *until* we pull our troops out. Then we can call it a day.

-FadeToBlack



I can respect, and understand that.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
Let's get this out of the way.

In war, people die.


Oh yeah and just wanted to add, you KNOW this isn't how you felt when those close to YOU died in war. Otherwise you wouldn't have the desire for revenge against the enemy, you would accept it and get on with your day like you said...but it doesn't work that way.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by BingeBob
You can be a pacifist all you want but reality is THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT US CITIZENS AND ARE NOT AFFORDED US CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

I dont even think they should be tried under Iraqi Law since most of them were caught fighting either us or the Iraqi Police/Military


For about the hundredth time, no they were not.

Example: if that was true why was a British citizen arrested in Lahore and subjected to four years of torture after fleeing Afghanistan when war was declared? Get educated and stop rationalising.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Goathief]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by 27jd
 


Let's get this out of the way.

In war, people die.

Not just combatants.

Usually, many more civilians than military.

Fact.

It will likely never change.

Cry about it, bitch about it, feel bad about it, but for God's sake, at least recognize it as a fact of life.

And then once you figure this out, you can get on with your business.


YOu are a very callous individual. I fear for your sanity and soul my friend.

But the question isn't about civilians dying in war. It does indeed happen. The question should be why the damned war was started in the first place. Oh yeah, there were terrorists and WMDs and satan and little elves with bazooka's and all of this fabricated garbage over there. That's right. So forgive me for being upset that so MANY innocents have died so so few MEN can get rich as hell off of it. I guess I just have my morals in the wrong f'ing place. Bad me.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by Goathief
 


I am educated...And what i said was a fact...

I have no idea what you are talking about...nor do i care what happens in britain unless it has to do with susan boyle...



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
[more

Nah, I didn't miss the point, but mine wasn't picked up either.

I honestly don't have a solution.

War implies bad things.

In war, crap happens. The longer a war goes on, the more crap will happen.

The number of bad things is directly proportional to the length of the war. To minimize bad events, one should make the war as violent up front and thus short, allowing the troops to war hard and go home.

Soldiers should never be tasked as jailers. Soldiers should never be tasked as police. Soldiers should never be used as nations builders. Nor ambassadors of good will.

A military is supposed to be a war machine. A simple concept, but no one wants to use terminology like that, much less admit that in reality, that's what a military is.

We no longer have a War Department. It's the Department of Defense.

The international rules of warfare are basically a contract, and they were signed.

Fine.

The first side that breaks the contract by violating any one of the rules of warfare, and the contract is over.

That's the way I see it, and apparently unfortunately, that's the way some in our military may see it.

Thus, this topic.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by BingeBob

I am educated...And what i said was a fact...

I have no idea what you are talking about...nor do i care what happens in britain unless it has to do with susan boyle...


1) You are clearly not educated.

2) I've proven it not to be a fact.

3) Ignorance is no excuse.

4) Pure arrogance. If you do not care what happens in Britain why do you care what happens in some repressed desert country filled to the brim with Muslim pissants?



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by dariousg
 





But the question isn't about civilians dying in war. It does indeed happen. The question should be why the damned war was started in the first place. Oh yeah, there were terrorists and WMDs and satan and little elves with bazooka's and all of this fabricated garbage over there. That's right. So forgive me for being upset that so MANY innocents have died so so few MEN can get rich as hell off of it. I guess I just have my morals in the wrong f'ing place. Bad me.


No, terrorists did not start the war. Men who were greedy and wanted what another man had started the war. All of these wars started over land and/or property and have morphed into some huge Hatfield/McCoy family fued. His brother killed my brother so I am gonna kill his other brother because grandpa said I had to for religion's sake.

Well, I call BS on all of it. War is not necessary. War is greed and torture is done for power.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by Goathief
 


You are deflecting...

It says right in my US passport that if i decide to fight US fighting men and women I then give up my US constitutional rights and citizenship...

I do not care what happens in Britain because the brits lost their freedom a while ago due to their own arrogance.

An arrogant american...I like the sound of that...



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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Hey guys, girls.

I don't want anyone passing out that this is coming from me, but it sure helps the discussion if we can snipe at others ideas, and not each other.

That's right.

Me, Dooper said that.

You can pass out now!

Seriously, it will go much better if we clear the decks and leave the personal crap out.

Of course I will not be offended, and you can call me whatever you want. Well, not pissypants of course, and not . . . you know?

Maybe we need to just stay on topic, or a reasonable fascimile.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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ALL our troops had a choice. this is an all-volunteer military. Do you believe anyone joining today is not aware they will probably go to Iraq? Do you believe anyone thinks they will be sent to Iraq but not ordered to kill the locals? Get real. They all knew what they were doing. They all decided they would kill/bomb locals when ordered in order to what? Prove to dad how macho they are? Get financial assistance for college? see the world? Let's not pretend any are innocent. Only the draftee might make claim to the excuses you try to provide. but wait, there are no draftees in Irag.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by donhuangenaro
the problem is that this leaked footage is just a tip of the iceberg

and when you see brave US soldiers doing this:


who knows what else happened there and what atrocities by western soldiers
weren't filmed?





If you listen around 2:10 in the video, you'll clearly hear that they were taking 'sniper rounds.'

What's the problem here?



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by BingeBob
 


I am not talking about constitutional rights, foolish man - I am referring to this:



I dont even think they should be tried under Iraqi Law since most of them were caught fighting either us or the Iraqi Police/Military


It should be patently obvious if you actually read my post fully. Even then if you want to talk combatants we can always refer to the Geneva Convention:


Unlawful Combatant


Article 5 of the GCIII states that the status of a detainee may be determined by a "competent tribunal." Until such time, he is to be treated as a prisoner of war.


&


A combatant who does not qualify for POW status can, under the provisions of the Geneva Conventions, expect to be treated humanely; and before he is punished, can expect to get a trial in "a regularly constituted court."


Either way the above is irrelevant to the point I was making. The vast majority of detainees were not taken during combat.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Forgive me Captain Pissypants...

While my last post was a little off topic it was in response to terror suspects having constitutional rights to due process which does play into this thread.

I apologise...

Back ON TOPIC...Ill reiterate How do we know that these pictures were of tortured people? How do we know they werent in a fight with other prisoners or involved in a vehicle accident?



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
Maybe we need to just stay on topic, or a reasonable fascimile.


Well, I think we can agree on soldiers being soldiers, not prison guards, or police, or ambassadors. And I'm sure you can agree that the S & M crap we see coming from the prison guards at Abu Ghraib was nothing more than a couple of sickos, not interrogation or anything of the like. It was out of line and disgusting, and really has nothing to do with war itself, just personal fetishes and power trips.




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