Venus of Hohle Fels - World's Oldest Sculpture?

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posted on May, 13 2009 @ 09:36 PM
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Seems they have found the FIRST Artistic Impression of ANYONE in Germany dating back some 35000 Years.

www.msnbc.msn.com...


An ivory figurine with prominent breasts and buttocks and other exaggerated sexual characteristics is the world's oldest known depiction of a woman, and likely that of any human being, according to research published in this week's issue of the journal Nature.

Named the Venus of Hohle Fels after the cave in southwestern Germany where it was recently excavated, the object dates to at least 35,000 to 40,000 years ago, based on more than 30 radiocarbon measurements conducted at the site.

Although tiny — just over 2 inches long — the intentionally headless figurine is remarkably detailed, with pronounced genitalia visible between open legs.


There are Photo's and Video as well.

Also expressed in another site covering this.

www.livescience.com...


The oldest human art dates back much further, to between 75,000 and 95,000 years ago in Africa. But that art was abstract, and consisted of geometrical designs engraved on pieces of red iron oxide. This is the first known art to represent a woman, and possibly the first art to represent anything real at all. Another find, a simple drawing that may represent a half-man, half-animal, could be a few thousand years older, but the date on that is uncertain.


Now this brings both "Sexes" together, Tit for tat, so to speak

From an older new account

news.bbc.co.uk...


Ancient phallus unearthed in cave

A sculpted and polished phallus found in a German cave is among the earliest representations of male sexuality ever uncovered, researchers say.

The 20cm-long, 3cm-wide stone object, which is dated to be about 28,000 years old, was buried in the famous Hohle Fels Cave near Ulm in the Swabian Jura.


Interesting, the Woman has parts. The Mans just a dic.

I guess there was only so much you could do during the Ice Age.

Anyhow, enjoy.

Ciao

Shane




posted on May, 13 2009 @ 09:47 PM
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I'm not surprised that it is a depiction of Venus/Aphrodite/Astarte/Ishtar/Inana/Hathor/Ashtaroth/Frig/LILITH...
there are other names for the harlot but couldnt think of them


[edit on 13-5-2009 by mostlyspoons]



posted on May, 13 2009 @ 10:00 PM
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THAT actually makes the "Venus of Willendorf" look good by comparison!

the Venus of Willendorf has been dated to around 24,000 BC. It's interesting both these figurines have such exaggerated female sexual organs. They look amazingly alike for having been created 10,000 years apart.

Very interesting find.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by Blackmarketeer]



posted on May, 13 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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Even 28,000 years later were still obssesed with each others parts.

-PaveWay Out



posted on May, 13 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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Depending on what you consider artistic expression you can see beads as one of the earlies signs of ornamentation and artistic design and manufacture.

The Es Skhul site in Isreal has beads dating to 100,000 BP.

Blombos Cave has sea shell beads made around 75,000 BP.

Grotte des Pigeons has red ochre covered beads from 82,000 BP.

Beads are interesting as they have no function other than ornamentation and take a significant amount of time to shape and in particular to drill the threading hole (certain sea shell were popular because they had a natural hole). This shows a development of culture beyond just survival.



posted on May, 13 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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So if these people were living in Germany around 35-40 the migration from Africa would been several; hundreds or thousand years sooner than once thought . As far a I understood the estimate arrival and settling of Europe was more like 20 to30 thousand years.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by OpusMarkII]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 02:16 AM
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And then there's the matter of what survives, remains recognizably intact, and is discovered. Choice of material is the largest factor.

One can only guess how much was done using animal leather, wood, vegetable materials, even human skin.

Red ochre burials by Neanderthals, a material that didn't completely disintegrate, gives us some indication art, religion, symbolism, goes back pretty far.


My overall feeling is that man was pretty sophisticated in his own way, well over a hundred thousand years ago.

Just as we have entered a new era where the bulk of our information and imagery is now digital, i.e. impermanent, I suspect there were many manifestations of creativity we'll never know about.

Interactive role-playing games for sure.


Mike


[edit on 14-5-2009 by mmiichael]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 07:50 AM
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S&F for you OP.
Very nice find. It is interesting that exageration of the sexual organs was in practice then as it is now. History does seems to repeat itself.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
THAT actually makes the "Venus of Willendorf" look good by comparison!

the Venus of Willendorf has been dated to around 24,000 BC. It's interesting both these figurines have such exaggerated female sexual organs. They look amazingly alike for having been created 10,000 years apart.

Very interesting find.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by Blackmarketeer]


Anthropologists consider the exaggerated female characteristics to be symbols of fertility. Well-fed, able to bear children, and feed them after they're born. It is possible that the figurines were part of a woman's cult that prayed for just such characteristics themselves.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by Shane
Seems they have found the FIRST Artistic Impression of ANYONE in Germany dating back some 35000 Years.

Interesting, the Woman has parts. The Mans just a dic.

I guess there was only so much you could do during the Ice Age.

Anyhow, enjoy.

Ciao

Shane

Earlier carvings exist, however.

This article is about just such a carving. A snake carving that is twice as old as your "venus."

Harte

[edit on 5/14/2009 by Harte]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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I would be skeptical about any claim that any artifact is the "oldest," but it would make perfect sense that these figures would have anatomically correct... or rather exaggerated... parts. One prominent theory is that these type of figures are about fertility.

It's extremely rare to see any phallus carvings, though. At least during the Paleolithic era. I am unaware of any phallus carvings what-so-ever from the Paleolithic.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by one_enlightened_mind]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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Another theory holds that they were carved by someone interested in that type of woman. In a way that can be considered fertility but is more personal than 'spiritual'. A Brit professor of mine use to stay they were probably made by a "lusty lad of 17" than a religiously minded individual.

People with less developed cultures that were studied in the 20th century did a great deal of work in perishable materials, wood, bone, skin, reeds, clay (unfired), etc. In most cases that doesn't survive but in a few cases it has survived and you get a rich mix of materials. Habitations that were in low oxgyen water, bogs, etc have preserved a mixture of such materials. My favorite are several wooden Javelins from 400,000 years ago.

www.thefreelibrary.com...

7,000 year old cultural material from a bog

www.nbbd.com...

10,000 year old bone tool

www.stonepages.com...

And of course Otzi's materials from 5,000 plus years ago

[edit on 14/5/09 by Hanslune]



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by Harte

A snake carving that is twice as old as your "venus."


And I find this as no surprise Harte. My opening clearly noted " the FIRST Artistic Impression of ANYONE ".

"Pre-Recreation" Man has made many things, as has been noted by several here as well. I just found that the fact brought forth was that this was the first to represent someone, (Actual or Not), apposed to something, as your link offers an excellent example of.

Ciao

Shane



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by Shane

Originally posted by Harte

A snake carving that is twice as old as your "venus."


And I find this as no surprise Harte. My opening clearly noted " the FIRST Artistic Impression of ANYONE ".

Yeah, I realize you were talking about an artistic representation of a human.

But I still like the snake better because it's so darn old.

Harte





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