Forced birth control? I say YES!

Originally posted by Hazelnut
If the world is over populated, so be it. How do you think you got here?

My PARENTS paid for raising me. They paid for the support of all their offspring.

The problem isn't with people that want kids that they are prepared to take care of, the problem is that people can have a ton of kids and expect OTHERS to take care of them via food stamps, free school lunches, welfare, foster care, or in some third world countries nearly whole generations must have free food and medicine simply to survive and keep breeding. That means sometimes the OTHER working families can't afford to have 2 or 3 or their own.



[edit on 14-5-2009 by Sonya610]

forced ANYTHING? NO!
having a young girl grow up on birth-control cannot be good for the body.
i haven't read all the posts in the thread, but it's not the way to go.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Hazelnut
If the world is over populated, so be it. How do you think you got here?

My PARENTS paid for raising me. They paid for the support of all their offspring.
[edit on 14-5-2009 by Sonya610]

So did mine and so do I. Taking a natural function and regulating it is sick no matter what the politics behind it are. There is no justification for advocating force against a natural function. It is called genocide.

The problem isn't with the poor nor is it with welfare. The problem is in people thinking their way is the only way. The problem is that there is a sick perversion of nature in the minds of the few who believe themselves superior to others. The problem is inequality and unfair practices by politicians and their blind followers. The problem is people who are naturally charitable have been hijacked by political propaganda and taxation. The problem is people who think they have the right (ha ha) to dictate and enforce their will on others.

Should people be charitable? Should charity be a government function? Should goodwill toward men be regulated? Could you be the one to handpick individuals for sterilization?

Or should you maybe begin to open your eyes and see that nature cannot and should not be messed with by mere humans? If you think the world is overpopulated then don't have kids. If you resent helping other people less fortunate than yourself by supporting a political system that strips you of your "hard-earned" tax dollars, do something about that. Your solution is childish and selfish.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Hazelnut]

reply to post by Hazelnut


I'm an only child raised by responsible individuals that worked for a living all of their lives. I think you're missing the point of the discussion.

I don't care what your arguments are - any time you force someone to follow your morals, beliefs, what have you, you're taking away their choice and thus their freedom.

That is not the spirit of this country.

Keep your idiotic ideas to yourself - we don't need any more ideas given to our fascist government.

reply to post by djzombie


!!!! and it's not and idiotic idea to give birth to a bunch of children you cannot care for? One idiotic idea (as you so eloquently put it) leads to another and another. Which brings me back to my original point. If people would start behaving responsibly and do the right thing, we wouldn't have to have these heated discussions now would we????????/

Originally posted by jackieps1975
reply to post by Hazelnut

 

I'm an only child raised by responsible individuals that worked for a living all of their lives. I think you're missing the point of the discussion.

What is the point of the discussion then if it's not Forced birth control?

Helping people makes people feel life is worth living. The politics of forced taxation, forced charity is the problem.

Lots of people naturally want to help other people less fortunate than themselves. It is the politics that is wrong, misleading and harmful. Change the politics and you won't have to worry about infringing on another human's natural rights. Force is never the answer to any problem. Force leads to resistance.

I know there are ones who abuse the welfare system, the system is wrong, the system is set up to be abused. Change the system.

!!!! and it's not and idiotic idea to give birth to a bunch of children you cannot care for?

We make it easy for them by accommodating their idiotic idea with welfare. When someone can make more money from the state by popping out a kid or 8 every year then they can even on minimum wage - the system is perpetuating these problems.

Many people are on birth control voluntarily for that very reason - my girlfriend for instance. We couldn't afford to have a child, we're barely scraping by supporting ourselves.

However - that is not to say it's appropriate to make it mandatory for anyone.

One idiotic idea (as you so eloquently put it) leads to another

It doesn't have to, it only happens that way if you perpetuate the idiocy as you have so eloquently done.

If people would start behaving responsibly and do the right thing

Who decides what the right thing is? You on your high horse? Oh yeah I forgot the government knows whats best for me.

In this country - we decide whats best for us - or we should be able to at least - that's the principles this country was founded upon, or maybe you forgot what freedom really is.

This idea is no better than china limiting the number of children each family is allowed to have.

All i hear in this thread is GO FACISM!

Originally posted by Hazelnut
What happens with and to my body is none of your business. Its my body, its my choice, its my responsibility. I have a huge problem with the idea that anyone thinks she/he has the right to force me to do something against nature. If I'm not willing to be forced, I'm sure my children won't either. How sick this world is. People thinking they have the right to force other people to kow-tow to outrageous ideas.

If the world is over populated, so be it. How do you think you got here?

That's where this gets so confusing. I believe the same. Anybody's intervention into my own life physically harbors a unfavorable reaction from me in the past, I couldn't imagine what I would do if the government decided I wasn't up to par and used force to alter my body to their standards. It's a obvious violation of freedom and the inalienable law that other people shouldn't have a "say" in the way you conduct your life. People not interfering with my life is a big thing for me, but then... You watch the news, go the the grocery store, you're in traffic, and you just see wave after wave of idiots breeding en masse.

There was no DELIBERATE breeding schedule. It was "this'll do" and no thought about the child that could be potentially created, and later on realized. They feed these children boxed foods, microwaveable dinners, dairy, and not only give them a skewed life compass, but worse... They give them theirs.

I don't know if it's just the way I feel about having kids, and the spiritual commitment that you owe to another being who didn't enforce it's will on you, but how you enforced your will on him/her.

I've brought up to my girlfriend, that when we become ready to have kids, have a stable, loving, understanding relationship, house, money saved, own a business, and are both healthy and mentally ready to devote ourselves to someone else that we should even eat extremely healthy before we even start trying(which we do). All organic, a perfect array of vitamins and minerals, so that we'll not only be ready to handle our child after the birth, but give it the best possible chance while it's in the womb.

Gone should be the days of just breeding by accident, without regard for your baby, or without having to answer to anybody. People in the world cause incredible damage to the people they create by being absent, stressed, and abusive because of their rush decisions and short term thinking.

Creating someone and bringing them into this world should be the most heavily thought out decision we're faced with. It not only affects us, but the hundreds or thousands of people that life could affect later on.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by DeadFlagBlues]

Punish the Poor. Bunch of leeches.

Eat the rich. Bunch of leeches.

reply to post by djzombie


He's being sarcastic, man.

And either way, it's not the rich doing anything to anybody. These are grown men and women making totally irrational decisions that will subsequently affect the life of another. Wouldn't it make sense not to have children, or to act sexually responsible enough as to not endow that type of burden when you're having enough trouble as it is. No rich person is making you put the smash on your girlfriend without protection. No rich person is making you not pull out. Those are decisions made by everybody, regardless the amount of wealth, but those in a better economic situation are spared the burden and common struggles that regular people would face.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by DeadFlagBlues]

The problems that plague or society can laregely be blamed on two things.

The destruction of the familiy unit, the lack of love and affection that youth receive, the exponentially increasing youth crime rates, lack of jobs, poor economy, and so on can ALL be attributed to the introduction to injecting women into the workforce in the 70s and early 80s and the capitilization and glorifying of divorce.

Now im not saying that women should be able to work, or that people shouldnt have the right to divorce in any way.

For many people, men or women, in abusive relationships or where one member has become unfaithful, divorce is a valid options. What i am referring to is the men or women who decide that for some reason their partner just doesnt cut it anymore, either sexually or in the looks department. Or the people who stand to make financial gain from divorcing their partner (usually the woman) and this being the sole reason for the divorce. Divorce used to be a shameful practice for both parties unless the reason was valid and was not common practice. In todays world, divorce has been turned into something glamerous and exiting, the stars are always doing it and get lots of attention for it, people are profiting off it it, and because of greed and excessive lifestyles it has almost become a social norm.

Divorce destroys many childrens lives and many adults working and social lives. We need to stop divorce from being socially acceptable for the wrong reasons and also we must install checks and balances in the system to prevent one from coming out of a divorce being more financially secure than they were in their marriage.

As far as women in the workforce goes, it has taken away from children having a stable parental figure in their lives to be there 100% of the time to give them direction and to teach them skills and prepare them for adulthood. Most people i knew growing up were latchkey kids and basically did whatever they want because their parents were either not around to stop them or were too busy to care.

The solution for this would be not to prevent women from working but rather in duel parental households, only have the member who has the higher income work untill such a time where the children are self sufficient enough where both parents can work without any negative effects to the child or children. Not only would this help to bring back the family structure and help instill values in our youth that we are slowly losing, but it will also boost the economy as there would be more vacant jobs and less money supply needed in the system which would bring inflation down.

As far as single parent families are concerned, while many may be good parents with good values the sad truth is that there are many who are not. For the single parents that work once again we see that the children do not have the correct supervision as do duel working parents and they also lack time spent with parents for learning and caring. FOr the ones who arent working and possibly living off the "system" the children are growing up in an environment with less opportunity in life and lacking the life experiences that we all consider a part of growing up (vacations, team sports or even simple things like going to movies and such) this creates a social gap between all.

The absolute worst thing that is happening in society is that the poorest and least educated of people are the ones having the majority of the children. Honestly there are many individuals these days under the age of ten that a very broken individuals and this is mostly thanks to the people who chose to have children who didnt have the means of properly rasing them either through poverty, neglect, non education or lack of support.

We are in big trouble in the next couple of years if we dont do something about this soon. There are far too many children now who have social problems, health or mental problems because of drug addict parents, lacking education or skills to become functioning members of society, sociopathic due to lack of attention or love from their parents, and who lack basic opportunities in life to succeed.

Dont believe me? Ask any grade school teacher about increasing child behavioural problems, lowering test scores, lack of common knowledge/skills, increasing social and mental delayments and so on. They will tell you it has increased ten fold in recent years. Also ask any child servies worker about the horror stories they see and they wil also tell you its on the rise. Even your local telephone/ cable repairman can tell you that the stuff they see go on in peoples houses is getting real bad and is increasing rapidly.

There a very simple solutions to these problems but the government doesnt have the balls to put their foot down, people dont have the guts to talk about it, and basically everyone is too afraid or too greedy to give up what they think is their comfortable lives to do anything about it.

reply to post by jackieps1975


I'm not sure how this post is a relevant topic on this site but there has to be some sort of population control. There are too many people on this planet that have kids mostly as a result of not being careful (men and women). We breed like cockroaches and that's all we are. Having kids is a privilege, not a right. Just my opinion, that's all.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13


And to add, so you're saying that only rich people should have babies? Or those with jobs? What about unemployed people? If they have college degrees and cannot find a job, should they still not have babies?

That's discrimination.

[edit on 5/13/2009 by ravenshadow13]

If you cannot afford the food for the baby... Of course you should NOT have babies!!! Are you off your rocker? It is one thing to have what I call the boo-boo baby when you are trying to be responsible adults and the protection fails. But it is quite another to consciously have a baby with no responsible way to raise that child. That is irresponsible, childish and definitely selfish without regard to that child's welfare. That is why our welfare system is soooo crappy. People with your attitude. Having a child may be your right - but having the baby while on welfare if you went out of your way to have a baby on MY two cents (taxes) is crappy and wrong morally and financially.

I don't think it would be asking too much to have forced birth control injections ( I think they are done every 3 months?) for any one on welfare benefits. That way it is temporary AND it curbs the attitude of having more kids on welfare is more money.
[edit on 14-5-2009 by mhinsey]

[edit on 14-5-2009 by mhinsey]

How dare poor people think that they should have their genes propogated and competing with your extra special genes. Why, they are stealing resources that rightly belong to your much more deserving ones.

Some people really are just talking genetic material. They shape their genes primitive speak as if they are speaking for all of us, when really they are just acting out a scenario that hasn't advanced from being like lichen yet. I deserve this rock more than you!

Originally posted by LostNemesis
I am in complete agreement with you.

Not only are there *SNIP* that would have children to make the taxpayers fund them, but there are ones that lie, and entrap men into supporting them their whole lives. The sad thing is, these are the ones with no intention to marry. They just have a bunch of kids, each from a different "daddy", and then collect checks from each one and never have to work.

Amazing that this is allowed. Men are easily taken advantage of, as sperm donors... and should never be able to be used in this way.
(sorry guys, some of you are sincerely able of protecting yourselves...)

I am sick of *SNIP*. Just sick of them ruining lives.


MOD EDIT: Okay - I understand you're passionate about the topic, but please lets not make such derogatory statements and terms. Cheers -alien

[edit on 13-5-2009 by alien]

If men were more prone to using condoms then they wouldn't have to worry about the woman not taking birth control. Quit blaming women because you want more sensation in your other "brain". It took two for that tango.

Originally posted by djzombieIn this country - we decide whats best for us - or we should be able to at least - that's the principles this country was founded upon, or maybe you forgot what freedom really is.

All i hear in this thread is GO FACISM!

So your idea is TOTAL FREEDOM without ANY RESPONSIBILITY!

Wow...cool. Freedom to do whatever you want, breed as much as you want, and not be responsible for any of it! Just have fun and have sex and let the OTHER people take care of what you create.


If only we all could live that way! With kids or anything else in life, freedom with no. responsibility! Life would be so much more fun!

Here we go again.
We are spending millions in welfare and yet there are tax payers who will scream at the notion that poor people should be prevented from multiplying indefinitly.
I say sterilize them all.
The poor in the world are growing poorer and greater in percentage of the entire population.
Really want a war on poverty?
Sterilize them and let them die out.
This would cut welfare payments back by at least 80%.
The remaining folks could support themselves on their low wages and no children would have to suffer.

One joker here thinks that not paying the unwed mother support would solve the problem....wonder what he/she is using for a brain.
But he/she is against forced sterilization. Maybe he/she should make a personal pledge of cash support.

I expect to get flamed, but I'm used to that.
I call it as I see it.
There is nothing like cold logic for efficiency in solving problems.

Oh, who will make that decision?
The individual's life will speak for itself.
Unskilled drop out that can't read, write or speak the language coherently...no question about it.

I don't get why people are still reproducing at all!

There are millions of children out there with no parents or proper care. Instead of breeding your own children why don't we help the world and care for those in need?

It literally is selfish to have your own children now.