Forced birth control? I say YES!

I've been meaning to post about this for a while now.... while listening to the evening news tonight, that angst within me was rekindled on the subject. New statistics...yay! Something like 34% of all pregnancies are from un-wed women. Okay, that is fine in and of itself but let's ponder this shall we....
The young lady they were interviewing for the piece was an unmarried nursing student. (Key word here...student), with no intentions of marrying the *baby daddy*. Now before I get attacked, let me just state that I am all for breeding if you are a contributing member of society. I do not care if you are single, homosexual, or any other societal taboo for that matter, just as long as you are able to provide proper care and upbringing to your child, without becoming an infringement on society (or me as a hardworking tax payer!).

To be perfectly honest, I am in favor of mandatory birth control. Not only in teens, but also in those that are unable to pull their proverbial "weight" in this country. It may sound cruel and inhuman but it's not. I am not talking about sterilization or anything invasive or dehumanizing. I'm simply stating that if individuals cannot act responsibly, rather than burdening the populus, keep them in check in some manner. We are overpopulated. The working class of America is every dreg of society's meal ticket and I've about had enough of that. I don't condone abortion and I also don't condone bringing children into unfavorable situations just for the sake of not having an abortion! Rather than perpetuate these situations of moral turmoil, why not make one of the long-term birth control devices mandatory for those who are under-age or ill equipped to raise a child??? I personally believe that many individuals and society as a whole would benefit. Ineffectual, invasive and blatantly ridiculous laws are passed every day. Why not something that would actually HELP us as a whole? I think it's perfectly reasonable.

Forced birth control....NO

Stop giving out welfare checks to women for having babies....YES

Problem solved.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by RRconservative]

The issue is that some women who are single mothers make wonderful mothers, and want to be single mothers. It's not a marriage argument.

Should everyone be put on birth control until at least age 23? Yes. Unless there is some medical problem making that a bad idea.

Some birth control pills, especially cheap hand-out ones, can cause some awful side effects. And some unwed women make awesome mothers and some of them go through a lot of trouble (in vitro, sperm banks) to have a child of their own.

So I agree, but I don't agree with your arguments.

And to add, so you're saying that only rich people should have babies? Or those with jobs? What about unemployed people? If they have college degrees and cannot find a job, should they still not have babies?

That's discrimination.

[edit on 5/13/2009 by ravenshadow13]

So who makes the decisions to who is worthy to have children and who do not need to take the birth control?

Our government? They have a great track record.

The people? An even worse record when dealing with public affair issues.

It would be infringing on people's rights, and that's not right.

Now I will agree that we are overpopulated and something needs to be done, however, this is not the way to go about it.

Education is the way forward in planned parenting. If we taught all kids about proper sexual relations with protection instead of discouraging sex education and teaching abstinence, we would have far less problems.

Nobody can say they are ethical or in a better position to decide who gets to breed and who doesn't. The man painting beautiful art is just as much a valued member of society as the brain surgeon saving lives.

~Keeper

Here's the funny thing...opinions are like a holes,everyone has one, I'm kind of glad your not making and decisions about it. I get what your saying but if you start forcing birth control then what's next. Regardless of whatever you think or I it dosent matter. Who is anyone to judge another person or life, and if it's based on money then it is a selfish decision.Although ,in my opinion, if someone brings a child into the world they should be able to care for it and that dosent always consist of having a lot of money. I'm not saying your wrong only that I disagree. Cheers.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by freeyourmind1111]

[edit on 13-5-2009 by freeyourmind1111]

Problem with mandatory birth control is

you try and touch one of my daughters with it, i'm going to Kill you and anyone who gets in the way as well. (don't take that personal...just sayin)

I have to say... I disagree wholly and fundamentally with the non reproduction angle we have been imposed with, we give SS to the old who have failed, sometimes for 30 years to live a non existence, but nothing but maybe a student loan to young people who, for all intents and purposes are a clean slate

I buy nothing into that we are running out of resources when there is a moon over our heads

I'd say our current beliefs and attitudes are not very different than Europe before the discovery of America... Population too large for current technology, disease etc...

and discovery of a continent and electricity and wow... London could hold a few Million people safely and hygienically after all

Fear and Paranoia... used to kill Babies or people

not in my world

and let me add this

There is a Moon over your head, there is no lack of resources or wealth, just a technological stop gap that needs to be fixed... we have a UNIVERSE to claim and people are scared... it's very likely empty too... and if it's not, well then there are those to ask for help for our problems out there


There's simply nothing to worry about... in fact just staying on one world and being chicken turds... not having enough people is the only way will ever hit extinctions

at 6 Billion people, we have Cockroach statistics now... it would take allot to off us, realistically given random genes, there probably is no weapon from the best bio tech to radiation that will eliminate us...

This is a GOOD time to be alive

and let me say one last thing

and it goes back to what I said at the start...

People should be very wary, when sounding off about this sort of thing, some of us, don't buy into DEPOPULATION, not just don't buy into are rabid against it...

Why?

Because in the end, I have love for everyone in my heart, but asked to CHOOSE between my lineage and another...

IF, it ever came down (which thank g-d it wont) to me and my wife and another guy and his wife on an island, and we knew there wouldn't be enough food those first years...

well, you know what I said, at that point I kill the guy next to me so I can reproduce...

Declaring that I can't reproduce or my children can't like China or even imposing birth control etc...

that's the ONE thing... that will turn me Rouge on my fellow man, i'm far from alone...

I don't care about this country, about you or anyone else more than the continuation of my line

I have no reason to live if I can't, it becomes a good day to die... and I wouldn't be going to the great beyond alone...

Not much else I can think of brings me to that place of thought... most things in time pass...

Aborting ME, my genetics, MY ability to continue is killing off my family line...

so advocate something like this, but know... the world burns ALLOT faster around you the minute it passes, you probably wont survive if your in America, this isn't China, we have independent personalities and in the end... My life is worth more than yours and my line is my immortality

Some things that are intrinsically human

You just don't give them up for any philosophy, any religion any belief or politics...

Reproduction is one of them, it is suicide for your family

If your plan were to happen I assure you... those in favor wont last long

reply to post by jackieps1975


Hi Jackie, as much as I love your post, I too am anti abortion, You cannot take the freedom to be irresponsible away.

I am in complete agreement with you.

Not only are there *SNIP* that would have children to make the taxpayers fund them, but there are ones that lie, and entrap men into supporting them their whole lives. The sad thing is, these are the ones with no intention to marry. They just have a bunch of kids, each from a different "daddy", and then collect checks from each one and never have to work.

Amazing that this is allowed. Men are easily taken advantage of, as sperm donors... and should never be able to be used in this way.
(sorry guys, some of you are sincerely able of protecting yourselves...)

I am sick of *SNIP*. Just sick of them ruining lives.


MOD EDIT: Okay - I understand you're passionate about the topic, but please lets not make such derogatory statements and terms. Cheers -alien

[edit on 13-5-2009 by alien]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


On a more... um... less... -frown-. On a different note.

I'd like to point out that many girls are afraid to tell their parents that they are sexually active. Some do not have a free clinic near them, nor the money for birth control. This is also why STDs are such a large problem. So, education can only go so far, but until every girl is seeing an OBGYN/Midwife/Doctor about her sexual habits and can get birth control, then there is going to be a problem.

It's not realistic, you're right. Education is the best we can do right now. But, you know, people threatening girls and saying horrible things about abortion make her feel like if she DOES get pregnant, her life will be ruined. And chastity isn't a realistic option in this society, and if anyone thinks otherwise then they can take it up with the FCC, magazines, MSM, and all the sex that is walking these streets in the form of our general contradictory mentality.

The truth is, parents who threaten or warn their kids about sex, who are so anti-abortion, it's their kids who will end up too scared to ask about protection. And it's they who end up pregnant at 17. I know because my good friend is 17, (as you know TTT) and is 8 months pregnant. Her father debated my mother about whether non-abstinence only education in the form of condom education should be presented in school. He said no, my mother said yes. His daughter is going to be a mother at the end of June, and I am on the birth control pill and have been for two years, and have not had a pregnancy.

So... some of the attitudes in this thread are unrealistic. I know how I live my life, how I want my friends to live their lives, and how I will want my children to live theirs in the future.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Before 23?

I get what your saying... but can't agree

we are far too materialistic and removed from life

No woman who wants to simply be a mother shouldn't get help, there's plenty of money simply burnt on nonsense let alone the one Holy thing the one miracle we all experience...

people are wealth, money is Turd some 18 yr old could birth the next Einstein, that makes her far more valuable than her Yuppie lawyer counterpart

Women should never be restricted or controlled in regards to childbearing and if there is One single thing, we pay for others it should be children

I would also add

I know family's who are poor and have 8 kids

I know family's who are rich and have one...

in the end, we all know who will be dying alone and miserable in that scenario, all the money in the world doesn't make up for the joy

and there is nothing to prove whatsoever in the statistics that a kid being raised poor will CAUSE crime...

sure, more of a chance a poor person might commit a crime... but what about the other 85% of kids from poor family's who go on to be ... very successful or...at least get by?

The "useless eater crowd" is inherently evil, i'm sorry it just is...

The REAL problem is that women are told they are worthless if they are only Mothers... you want to eliminate crime, just RESPECT women who choose motherhood...

what is actually the harm of a child at 18?

That society says it's wrong? Your worthless no one can help...

Nuclear bombs we can build... pay for the elderly who...had their shot at stability and failed or pay for kids?

Hands down i'd be willing to see money from ss go to moms and kids and take my chances... I have another 30 years to pay for my retirement, no one but me is to blame if I fail...

Kids are just... LIFE, people a Chance for something good to come...

In all honesty, I love what you guys are saying on the subject I just wanted to put something thought provoking out there. Just to clarify, I do think our government is beyond reproach and completely lacks ability to govern anything. In the hands of the capable, I do believe this could be done legitimately, fairly and with support. Maybe these issues wouldn't even exist, if we had proper leadership. As stated by many, we are not in capable hands, not even close. Furthermore, I doubt that those of us in prime age (25-40] will see anything promising in our lifetime
I'm one of the most loving, sympathetic and empathetic people you would ever meet but in the condition of our society, I'm reduced to digust on many subjects. I find it shameful that I would even have to consider such measures on the way to order, but it's simply in light of how bad things have become. This is reality, something must be done....but by whom and how? Those are the important questions.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I'm 18 and even though I suppose I could birth the next... whatever... they wouldn't live an awesome life right now. I wouldn't be able to get a good enough job. I wouldn't have finished my education. I'm not ready to have a child, and neither are most teenagers.

I mean, honestly forced birth control will never happen. But really, it's not like we're all going to stop using birth control.

We're not dumb. Could you imagine what that would do to the economy? Society? If 16-20 year olds started popping out as many kids as 30 year olds?

I don't think it's a good idea, but if you could prove otherwise for that rearrangement of our societal timeline, I would reconsider it.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


You know, in my heart, I believe everyone should have the freedom to be as F'd up as they choose to be.....but shouldn't there be a line? Especially when there are new lives on the line, innocent lives that have no choice, lives that will pay the price of their parents indiscretion and blatant disregard?

reply to post by LostNemesis


Men are not taken advantage of as sperm donors anymore than women are taken advantage of as egg donors. Both are completely voluntary and monetarily compensated.

Not sure where you got the idea that it was something awful for them. Most are proud to do it, do it willingly, and are glad to contribute their genes to a new generation for women who may choose to remain single mothers for whatever reason.

There are also many single fathers. For your information.

EDIT- scratch this whole post. Didn't realize you were being lewd and metaphorical.

[edit on 5/13/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by jackieps1975
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

You know, in my heart, I believe everyone should have the freedom to be as F'd up as they choose to be.....but shouldn't there be a line? Especially when there are new lives on the line, innocent lives that have no choice, lives that will pay the price of their parents indiscretion and blatant disregard?

I feel your pain.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


It's great to hear from someone your age and I praise your personal responsibility. I wish more could be like you. That being said, you are correct, mandatory birth control will not happen here, but it happens all over the world, in many dehumanizing ways. China for example, they have sterilization. Although I am not sure if it's mandatory, many citizens opt for it due to the one child law that is striclty enforced. Now at that level, I find it to be morally disturbing.

I must say it is very refreshing to here from you and find that there are still strong, intelligent, responsible women coming up in the world. If only that were the rule as opposed to the exception.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Most are proud to do it, do it willingly, and are glad to contribute their genes to a new generation for women who may choose to remain single mothers for whatever reason.

There are also many single fathers. For your information.

Perhaps that is the part I was referring to. That guy who is happy to get his first lay at 19 is proud, until the 30-something tells him to get out of her life. Several months later, he is served court date, and is forced to make payments to the woman who was reaching the end of her childbearing years, and wanted a free check.

Men are not doing enough to protect themselves. You obviously have not met any of these guys who are in debt to someone for the rest of their life, because of a one night stand when they were a teen. This is definitely a growing trend where I live. Women are learning that men are an easy 'meal ticket'.

The ability to breed freely, is all about control. When one brings a kid into their life, they give up all rights to the government... who can then come barging into lives whenever they want.. and even take kids away when one does not play by the rules.

A woman can lure a guy home one night, and then have them in debt to her for the rest of his life. This is reality. It happens to a lot of people. We need to educate, especially men, that 'getting laid' can land you a lot of trouble.

EDIT: Ah, just saw your edit... lol Well, many men are single fathers, and are better than whatever mother the kid would have. I have known those, too. The court system is always so unfair, when it comes to the man's rights, when it comes to kids.
My father was a single father... and believe me, it was for the best.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by LostNemesis]

reply to post by RRconservative


That's the problem RRconservative, they will never stop the pity party for those people who choose to act irresponsibly. No one has the brass set to come out and say what we are all thinking. If the government had enough nad to stop perpetuating these situations, we would have no reason for these discussions. (sigh)

reply to post by jackieps1975




Right. I mean, I'm not sure where this thread turned into yet another abortion debate and it was making me a tad testy.

But sterilization wouldn't be an option for us, I don't think. Because who would they want to prevent pregnancies in? Teenagers. But if they sterilize teenagers, who will be there to birth the next generation? Logistically it couldn't work. Unless they did it after people had one child. Like one child and that's it. But it would be a problem still because 1) it would cost money. And 2) what happens with adoption? If people move to the USA with more than one child? How could you possibly catch every single person with a child and sterilize them? And it wouldn't help prevent teen pregnancies, only additional pregnancies.

It's kind of complex. I'm all for more sexual education, though. And if it gets really bad, a limit on kids. Maybe 6 as a limit. I would never even have 4 kids! But I suppose many people would be mad about having a limit as "low" as six when many families have 12 kids or more...

reply to post by ravenshadow13


What I really meant to put out there, is when men are given no choice when it comes to raising kids.... And 'the system' loves this.

If it weren't for so many welfare cases, many government departments would lose funding. So really, they want to keep it up.