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So UK, who will you be voting for on june 4th?

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posted on May, 18 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn

Infinite made a very good arguement in another thread here on ATS for the abolition of universal suffrage.
That I disagreed with him is irrelevant.
We need open discourse to stimulate interest and increase awareness.

Party politics has failed us.
The election of an 'independant' party will only result in that party becoming another Labour Or Conservative and would help maintain the current status quo which is proving so detrimental to the well being of this country.

Only truly independant MP's / MEP's who are unaligned to any party manifesto and who are committed to the interests of their constituents.

In addition, I think the use of more referendum's would provide a more democratic answer to some of the more important issues.
It is intereting that the only people who seem to disagree with the referendum's are those involved in the current party system and thus have vested interests in maintaining the current system and their ride on the gravy train.


Have you got a link to Infinates post in that thread you mentioned, i tried to find it myself, but a bit like looking for a needle in a haystck i'm afraid
I really would like to read it, so if you wouldn't mind, i would really appreciate the link if possible,

cheers, mcog




[edit on 18-5-2009 by MCoG1980]




posted on May, 18 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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In addition, I think the use of more referendum's would provide a more democratic answer to some of the more important issues.


Couldn't agree more. I'll admit I haven't yet paid much attention to politics, but I have always felt that a more direct public involvement would be a good thing.

Now looking into the English Democrats link.



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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I just caught the Party Political Broadcast by the English Democrats and I have to say that I was quite impressed. Of course, the politics of the noughties is such a minefield but since StuMason brought my attention to them I have been experiencing the "red mini" syndrome and now see them advertising all over the place.

Thanks StuMason, they may evolve into a really major threat to the Labs, Cons and Libs!

EDIT: I think the broadcast worked, the site appears to be inundated with hits and I couldn't even get onto it when I last tried. If you're not careful, StuMason you might be accused of being an agent provocateur



[edit on 18-5-2009 by SugarCube]



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 


The debate occurred in this thread; www.abovetopsecret.com...

Both Infinite and 44soulslayer gave a pretty strong aguement against universal suffrage.
The arguement had many valid points, unfortunately I can not bring myself to agree with them, it goes against my own personal standards, but they certainly provided food for thought.

Me, I just find it amazing that people can not see past party alignment of one kind or another.
It is that very blinkered attitude that has led us to where we are today, which isn't a very nice place from where I'm looking.

We need open, honest but respectful debate on so many issues but unfortunately the current system discourages and actively seeks to stiffle it.



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Well I know who I WON'T be voting for!! I think the method of Ipp Dipp Dog Ship comes to mind when thinking of a new "Power" to look after us for 4 years. I mean seriously, these people are all the same, they have the same goals, same ideas, same arrogance and overall same evilness.

I honestly think that Labour f'd this once great country up on purpose. These MP's make laws, change laws and don't follow laws. Yet it's not them who are being beaten up, stabbed, raped, murdered etc.

TBH I couldn't give two shiny ****'* who get's into power, we will still have to put up with their nonesense.. just from a different angle.



posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 




Thats not a good enough reason to vote BNP, they are racist, and unless you agree with their other ideals , which i hope most do not, you should not consider giving them your vote. They're are other parties who want out of the EU not just the BNP.


Some policies such as "British first" type policies appear racist, but imo, is simply a bi-product of the nation. British people are naturally white, that is by far the largest population.. the EU has another biproduct, an easier influx of immigrants that happen to not be the same color.

I don't believe their policies are blatantly racist, but that in the larger scheme of things to protect your nation, you need not be concerned with the feelings of potential immigrants who are not assimilating to your Nation.

Branding them racist is an excellent way to simply discredit them, even if it's unfounded.

I think Freeborn has by far the best idea when he said:



That is the whole point, abolish party allegiance and have MP's / MEP's vote as they wish, with their constituents wishes and well being being the primary consideration, on each individual Bill / Law / debate or vote etc without having to follow party line irrelevant of conviction.


"Parties" have no place in the Democratic world.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck

Some policies such as "British first" type policies appear racist, but imo, is simply a bi-product of the nation. British people are naturally white, that is by far the largest population.. the EU has another biproduct, an easier influx of immigrants that happen to not be the same color.



I have read that over and over again and i see that statement as racist in itself. You say that british is naturally white? Are we going to segregate people by hair and eyecolour too??? Over the centuries we have been invaded from all over including the vikings and the romans to name a few - your comment seems very shortsighted, and what about the black slaves the white british brought back to britain???? We are a nation of mixed origins, there will be very very few people in britain whose origin are pure bred british :shk:

Now, if your talking about immigration then i agree that they do need to look at the laws on this and assess them. Britain is a small place - an Island infact and cannot expand and will actually receed over time due to erosion yet the population will increase. It saddens me to see greenbelts built on ect and many UK jobs lost favour of cheaper labour imported from abroad. This is not the fault of the foreign workers, but the policies put in place by our governments. This does need looking at very seriously as does the control of handling of ILLEGAL migrants. What you also have to remember is this rule i would imagine will apply both ways, if you take the right for people to come here to work, i would presume you also take the right away for you to do the same elsewhere.

Can you also imagine then how the aborginies felt when they realisied they were starting to lose their country to the whiteman, which btw, more and more british people are flocking to Australia by the day. Personally i would think the Oz citizens will think as much of the brits as 'we' do foreign workers.

BNP are a racist party. The policies you say you favour are also ones put forward by the English democrats - see stumasons link.







[edit on 19-5-2009 by MCoG1980]



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 


Will never vote for Labor in any election after the invasion of Iraq. The Tories were in on it as well and represent the rich, so that rules them out. The Lib Dems under Charles Kennedy opposed it, now hes gone they are a rabble. UKIP are ok, but a very one issue party. BNP, their influence is being blown out of proportion. So basically i'm not voting this time round, as there really is no-one.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by MCoG1980
 


The debate occurred in this thread; www.abovetopsecret.com...


Thanks freeborn, much appreciated



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by MCoG1980
 


Will never vote for Labor in any election after the invasion of Iraq. The Tories were in on it as well and represent the rich, so that rules them out. The Lib Dems under Charles Kennedy opposed it, now hes gone they are a rabble. UKIP are ok, but a very one issue party. BNP, their influence is being blown out of proportion. So basically i'm not voting this time round, as there really is no-one.


No-one? What are your views on the English Democrats or Green Party



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 




When they get to Parliament, they are supposed to represent ALL constituents, not just those who voted for them


But most of them don't represent the views of any of their constituents!
They are too busy being yes men to the party in the hope of promotion.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by lightchild
 


I think it will be interesting to see if more people vote due to expenses fiasco, everyone seems to have an opinion on it....personally for this particular election, i think they SHOULD introduce a vote of no confidence ballot box - afterall isn't that how the MP's voted with regard to the house of commons speaker? I don't think it at all fair they have one rule for the house and another for the nation - we should have this option.



[edit on 19-5-2009 by MCoG1980]



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 


Good idea so we can all see how screwed our country is but if they dont have confidence do you think these people will bother turning up to state their no confidence vote, what they should be doing if they have no confidence protest about what they believe in, thats what people who vote will of done by voting to a party.

actually every party that comes in takes the public for granted once they are in, cant we demend a re-election if they dont do what they promised ? sorry for the questions i just would like to know everything about our voting system as i will be voting for the first time.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by thecrow001
 


This is my first time voting too, and unfortunately i do not have all the answers, and partly why i started this thread, so i would become more informed as the conversation progressed. Hopefully they're maybe someone who will be able to answer your questions. As far as i am aware, we cannot demand a re-election if they fail to deliver on thier promises, i guess that is why they have the General Election every 5 years, so that if they do not deliver within that time frame you can re-elect, i would say it is the same principle with the local elections but with a shorter time frame. I do think they should have a no confidence option for sure - if it won....then they should HAVE to rethink the whole system.



[edit on 19-5-2009 by MCoG1980]



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 


Haha... well.. wow.

If you honestly see something racist in my comments I believe you need to reevaluate your intelligence and insight as far as your ability to vote.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by MCoG1980
 


Haha... well.. wow.

If you honestly see something racist in my comments I believe you need to reevaluate your intelligence and insight as far as your ability to vote.


Please elaborate - i explained my reasons, do you not agree with history?
I don't think it's my intelligence that needs evaluating :shk:

[edit on 19-5-2009 by MCoG1980]



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 06:56 PM
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oh right goodluck with your first time voting, who ever we vote for we all want the same things dont we a better life and a trust worthy political system.

lets hope things turn out better. who are yuo considering voting for, i think i asked this question earlier but i will ask agian just to save me going back reding the thread and finding out idint ask it you then i have to post this question up.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by thecrow001
 


No problem
I am still listening to what is said before i make my final descision, if the no confidence vote was there...that would be the one i would vote for...but it isn't. I am definately going to vote for an independant party now, but as i said i am still yet to make a final descision and am still listening to all arguments from all angles...as i stated earlier, my aim is to make a well informed descision.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 


Britain is a Anglo-Saxon state, it's historic population being thus. It is a White country, but ethnicity. In my wording above I stated that racism is an apparent biproduct of anti-Eu/Immigration stances.. From many discussion with Brits the problems not just color. Polish, Russian, etc are considered just as big of a problem as say Nigerians and Pakistanis. To state that a party is completely racist due to stances that limit immigration which includes people that are not of the same ethnicity is ignorant.

In America we have a huge problem with Mexicans.. not their race or ethnicity, but the many economic, social and legal issues that arise from expanding populations. In our history this is proven not exclusive to race if you look at Italian, Irish and Slavic immigrants to this country being treated like crap. When you expand immigration for the wrong reasons it creates ilfeelings towards that group. So you see, has nothing to do with Mexicans, it just happens to deal with the specific political issues that arise, race being a biproduct.

British First policies favor whites as Britain's base population is White. If it where about curbing the rights of legal, nationalized non-white Brits then I would completely agree with you.. but I have seen no evidence this is the case.



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by MCoG1980
 


well good luck and i am learning to how ever at the moment its BNP as my first choice then UKIP but theres tome to change my mind through learning about each other party.



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