Reheat - Hole in the Ground

Yes, someone PLEASE prove that most of Flight 93 lies buried under this shallow crater it supposedly left behind as the official story states:






PS - And if a 155ft-long 757 mostly buried itself underground -- if that's even remotely possible -- wouldn't it have left a hole behind and not a shallow 10ft-deep crater???

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Killtown7]

Originally posted by Killtown7
PLEASE give us your estimation of what % of the plane was buried.

Estimation? No, I think not. You claim that the official figure is 80% and is from the 9/11 commission report. I ask of you to please show everyone where that figure came from, that shouldn't be a problem now should it?

I don't want an "estimation" , yours or mine.

posted by SonyAD
Questions:

1. If it wasn't an airliner, what was it?

A bomb?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5ee249f9d1d9.jpg[/atsimg]

posted by SonyAD

2. If it wasn't an airliner, why did 'they' crash it in a field? 'They' only wanted to give the impression the WH was a target as well?

Apparently their little plan went awry, and Flight 93 could not make it to WTC7, or whereever. So perhaps a quick warhead into the strip mine, a quick salting of the area, and burn up the woods later. FBI Investigators bring in the evidence with them and pretend to find it. Explains why body parts turn up later where there were none earlier. Fake the Flight 93 crash and fly it out over the Atlantic for disposal. Make sure Air Traffic Control Chief destroys records.

posted by SonyAD
Why not crash some gutted (possibly government) aircraft instead?

More difficult to cover up or they just didn't think about it?

Oh they thought of it all right. But those boneyard aircraft won't fly. So the next best idea was to salt the crime scenes with pieces from the boneyards, at the Pentagon, Shanksville, and yes the WTC too.

Aircraft Boneyard additions to the 9-11 evidence

At WTC - no serial numbers

On roof of WTC5 - Alleged Ft 175 fuselage piece laying ON TOP OF aluminum cladding from destroyed Towers
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3fc887f4576f.jpg[/atsimg]

At the Pentagon - no serial numbers

Salting the crime scene?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/398523a1a219.jpg[/atsimg]

Only known photo by Congresswoman Berkeley - no serial number
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0771539c8c52.jpg[/atsimg]

Only known photo - Black box near the Exit Hole planted on top of sooty footprints - no serial number - flawed flight path - actual path ONA NOC authenticated by FAA
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fdf9715396cf.jpg[/atsimg]

Only known photo sitting on golf course turf - not the Pentagon lawn
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3953f7094fd.jpg[/atsimg]

Sat out in front of the helipad a long long long time
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7298ad2f44d0.jpg[/atsimg]

Only known photo - likely created in Italy
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/10d8404e5f5b.jpg[/atsimg]

At Shanksville - no serial numbers

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/896efa431ee0.jpg[/atsimg]

Cleaned and pressed - like brand new - likely never ever in the State of Pennsylvania
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3c397030e2f2.jpg[/atsimg]

High Resolution Government Exhibit

All alone in the hole - no 90 ton aircraft in sight - fits backhoe bucket perfectly
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/789ad1c93c85.jpg[/atsimg]

High Resolution Government Exhibit



[edit on 5/14/09 by SPreston]

Originally posted by turbofan


Unreal.

Yes it is unreal that you can not grasp the fact that the crashes of Flight 1771 and Flight 93 are similar.

Are you that foolish to list all of that nonsense when it has absolutely
NOTHING to do with the location of UA93 and its parts?

Really? NOTHING? The same "nothing" that you posted above?



So, since the parts from flight 1771 didn't end up in Shanksville, it is nonsense?

Do you know what caused the crater near Cayucos, California?

The only thing you listed in your reply was already corrected in my
previous post which you seem to have trouble understanding.

Wind blowing debris from the crash site DOES NOT equal debris
scattered from the impact force.

YOU corrected ME? I have trouble understanding??



So, you are saying the debris found in Baltimore,PA was scattered from the impact force? The FBI and NSTB disagree with you, as they stated the 11 MPH wind that was blowing on 9/11/01 was sufficient to carry the VERY LIGHTWEIGHT debris that far.

Capisce?

Oh I quite certainly do. Do you?

I can't believe some people are stupid enough to believe a bandana
was found (no dirt, blood, or wrinkles) from the crater, but the government
cannot supply a photo(s) representing 70 tons of aircraft from the crash
site.

Flight 1771 was over 46 tons of aircraft.... and guess what?? They found a suicide note in the debris written on a barf bag!!!!

Am I "stupid enough" to believe that a barf bag survived flight 1771?

Where are all the pictures of all the wreckage from flight 1771? Where is the alleged barf bag with the suicide note?

Where is the picture of the pieces of gun with the tiny piece of skin fragment stuck to it that matched the killer?

Sometimes I wonder why I debate GL's...

I sometimes wonder why I post in Pilots 4 911 Truth / No Planer threads.





[edit on 14-5-2009 by CameronFox]

posted by CameronFox

Flight 1771 was over 46 tons of aircraft.... and guess what?? They found a suicide note in the debris written on a barf bag!!!!

Sounds like a scheme by the airline to keep costs down. For a small fee, the FBI will plant anything they need.

posted by CameronFox

Am I "stupid enough" to believe that a barf bag survived flight 1771?

Yep.

Geez "Cameron Fox", I'd love to insert an infinite amount of laughing
icons to highlight the lack of thought in your reply, but I'll let the
math stand.

CameronFox believes an 11 MPH wind carried debris over 8 miles
within 10 minutes of the media arriving.

Also notice there is no debris around the crater. I guess the impact was
so severe, it all just made a ring on the perimeter of the 8 mile zone?

Originally posted by SoloistEstimation? No, I think not. You claim that the official figure is 80% and is from the 9/11 commission report. I ask of you to please show everyone where that figure came from, that shouldn't be a problem now should it?

I don't want an "estimation" , yours or mine.

No, I'm saying the ambassadors at the Flight 93 memorial are reciting the official story, so I take that lady's claim of "80% found in the crater" is the amount of Flight 93 that was supposedly buried under that shallow crater.

Seems like you are stuck on the semantics of the article quoting the 9/11 commission report. I think it's obvious the article meant to say the "official 9/11 story" (which we all know news articles frequently get stuff wrong), because if not, they YOU are suggesting that lady is volunteering her time to go to the memorial and pull quotes out of her ass.

Btw, you seem to have a real problem with the claim 80% of Flight 93 was buried under that shallow crater. Why is that?

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Killtown7]

Originally posted by turbofan
Geez "Cameron Fox", I'd love to insert an infinite amount of laughing
icons to highlight the lack of thought in your reply, but I'll let the
math stand.

Sorry Turbo... No planers just crack me up.

CameronFox believes an 11 MPH wind carried debris over 8 miles
within 10 minutes of the media arriving.

Did I say that genius? No... YOU did. Please provide evidence that supports your claim that the light weight debris found in Baltimore was found 10 minutes post impact.

Investigators later said the debris was all very light material, such as paper and thin nylon the wind would easily blow. The wind was blowing towards Indian Lake and New Baltimore at 9 knots [10.5 mph]. "According to the NTSB, it is not only possible that the debris is from the crash, it is probable," Crowley said

archives.cnn.com...

Also notice there is no debris around the crater. I guess the impact was
so severe, it all just made a ring on the perimeter of the 8 mile zone?

You will need to do a little more research sir. Wow. Talk about lack of though. You have been unable to refute one point.

Originally posted by Killtown7
No, I'm saying the ambassadors at the Flight 93 memorial are reciting the official story, so I take that lady's claim of "80% found in the crater" is the amount of Flight 93 that was supposedly buried under that shallow crater.

Then please show where in as you call it the "official story" this is accurate. You made the claim and provided the link, not sure why you are having so much trouble. There is nothing official about a volunteer answering a question that she may not know the correct answer to, or if ANYONE has an answer to. Since you are using it as a basis of your argument I would expect to see the proof.

Btw, you seem to have a real problem with the claim 80% of Flight 93 was buried under that shallow crater. Why is that?

[edit on 14-5-2009 by Killtown7]

See above.

reply to post by SPreston


I am sorry, SPreston, but your reply to SonyAD was very misleading. Perhaps you truly believe that what you offered was fact, and I tried to ignore it, but there is a point when errors must be pointed out.

Apparently their little plan went awry, and Flight 93 could not make it to WTC7, or whereever. So perhaps a quick warhead into the strip mine, a quick salting of the area, and burn up the woods later. FBI Investigators bring in the evidence with them and pretend to find it. Explains why body parts turn up later where there were none earlier. Fake the Flight 93 crash and fly it out over the Atlantic for disposal. Make sure Air Traffic Control Chief destroys records.

(my emphasis)

UAL93 was seen to be obviously heading to DC. HOW would Saudi terrorists know about WTC7?? Red herring on your part, sorry. Fly it out over the Atlantic? Now, you're just grasping in the dark. ATC? Please read the link below: (it is long...)

aal77.com...

At Shanksville - no serial numbers

You repeated that at least four times, along with photos of fuselage sections. (I am not going to pollute this post with them, people can scroll up). Come on!!! You fully well know there are No Serial Numbers on any of those pieces! No airplane has S/Ns on the parts that comprise the fuselage.

You keep pinning your hat on that oldie of the backhoe and a mangled turbine. I've already suggested a possiblility for that item -- the APU.


And, there is this little gem!!!!!

Only known photo - likely created in Italy

In this, you for some unknown reason announce that is "likely created in Italy"!!! Is that supposed to be some kind of joke?!? Do you actually wish to be taken seriously? (I will not stoop to doing what so many no-planers do, and accuse you of working for someone else's agenda.....no, not gonna do it!).

Now, I've damaged this thread by legitimizing your off-topic posting of AAL77 and WTC photos....but, YOU did it. It simply could not go unchallenged. So, rather than limp along and only focus on the UAL93 portion, I see it as necessary to include everything from your fantasy-filled post.

The bandana?? Pfffft! Not worth even discussing, it is so trivial. (At least it's on the topic, though. Kudos for that!).

You make plenty of assertions; "Salting the scene"? You allege evidence planting, etc, with NO, NADA, el ZIPPO to back up those incredible claims.

Finally, the FDR. Again, this is OT, since it's the AAL77 unit(?). Frankly, I have to look into that more, since I've never seen a cylindrical one before. It is the correct color, and has the white stripes....and is obviously charred --- hmmmm, wonder if the S/N was burned to be unreadable?? AND, on 'top' of sooty bootprints??? What an incredible stretch of imagination!! Of course, NO ONE would walk around the thing, bend down and peer closely at it, would they???

Give me a break CameronFox.

There are several videos of reporters approaching the scene within
minutes of the 'impact'.

Feel free to actually do some research and watch them. I'm sick of
replying to your unfounded nonsense.

A picture and video tells a thousands words...in this case it DEBUNKS you.

reply to post by weedwhacker

posted by weedwhacker

HOW would Saudi terrorists know about WTC7??

What Saudi terrorists?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d3e108cff1ab.jpg[/atsimg]

Oh you mean the actors with all the stolen identities pretending to be Saudi terrorists?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c4b07ed753c4.jpg[/atsimg]

Those dudes leaving incriminating evidence behind them to frame some patsies? Those guys training on Cessnas and on US Military bases and hanging out in girlie bars. Those guys the FBI has no clue who the heck they are?

What a great propaganda flick.

Flight 93 - the Silly Movie by Fox Television Studios

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/23b2cb9740df.jpg[/atsimg]

What would those pretend Saudi terrorists have to do with WTC7? They were nowhere near Flight 93, or any of the alleged 9-11 aircraft were they? There were no Saudi terrorist hijackers on any of the aircraft were there? It was a Hollywood script with imaginary heros and imaginary phone calls; just like the silly Hollywood flick Flight 93 with the red bandanas, that showed up later. That's where that cleaned and pressed red bandana came from. The FBI evidence planters must have borrowed it from the movie props for the Moussaoui Trial.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/167a0f129f15.jpg[/atsimg]

Were these red bandana guys Red Guard or maybe Texas Rangers?



[edit on 5/14/09 by SPreston]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by SPreston

 

Fake the Flight 93 crash and fly it out over the Atlantic for disposal. Make sure Air Traffic Control Chief destroys records.

UAL93 was seen to be obviously heading to DC.

ATC? Please read the link below: (it is long...)

aal77.com...

How would ATC know where the aircraft were? They were chasing phantoms from all the false transponders and blips from the active war games going on during 9-11. They completely lost what they thought was Flight 77 and were tracking two different Flight 175s. They don't even know for sure that Flights 11 and 77 actually took off from their airports on the morning of 9-11.

Controllers' 9/11 Tape Destroyed, Report Says

By Sara Kehaulani Goo
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 7, 2004; Page A02

Six air traffic controllers provided accounts of their communications with hijacked planes on Sept. 11, 2001, on a tape recording that was later destroyed by a Federal Aviation Administration manager, according to a government investigative report issued yesterday.

It is unclear what was on the tape, but its destruction did little to dispel the appearance that government officials withheld evidence, the report by the Department of Transportation inspector general said.

The report found that an FAA manager tape-recorded an hour-long interview with the controllers just hours after the hijacked aircraft crashed into the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania. His intention was to provide the information quickly to the FBI. But months after the recording, the tape was never turned over to the FBI and another FAA manager decided on his own to destroy the tape, crushing it with his hand, cutting it into small pieces and depositing the pieces into several trash cans, the report said.

The existence of the tape and its destruction were revealed in a report that initially was to find whether the FAA had fully cooperated with an independent panel investigating the terrorist attacks after the panel complained last fall that it needed more information from the agency. Inspector General Kenneth M. Mead found that the FAA never intentionally withheld information, but he condemned the managers' actions and said they were required to keep such evidence for five years.

The report said investigators were told that the tape was never listened to, copied or transcribed.

"The destruction of evidence in the Government's possession, in this case an audiotape -- particularly during times of national crisis -- has the effect of fostering an appearance that information is being withheld from the public," the report says. "We do not ascribe motivations to the managers in this case of attempting to cover-up, and we have no indication there was anything on the tape that would lead anyone to conclude that they had something to hide or that the controllers did not properly carry out their duties on September 11. The actions of these managers . . . nonetheless, do little to dispel such appearances."

The FAA yesterday said it had taken disciplinary action against the employee who destroyed the tape. That manager, identified by a source familiar with the investigation as Kevin Delaney, was last week given a 20-day suspension without pay. Delaney appealed that decision, the source said, confirming a report last night by Newsday. The employee who recorded the tape, Mike McCormick, was not subject to a disciplinary procedure and is in Iraq for the FAA, helping to set up an air traffic control system, the source added.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Originally posted by SPreston

Fake the Flight 93 crash and fly it out over the Atlantic for disposal. Make sure Air Traffic Control Chief destroys records.

Originally posted by turbofan
These types of threads really expose the intelligence and logic of an individual.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by trebor451]

reply to post by SPreston


Just READ the link! It's the little blue thingy, up above.

So, the tapes were destroyed. The transcripts live on.

SO....ever heard of 'coast'? Know what a 'primary' target is?

Just wondering.

reply to post by SPreston

At Shanksville - no serial numbers

posted by weedwhacker
You repeated that at least four times, along with photos of fuselage sections. (I am not going to pollute this post with them, people can scroll up). Come on!!! You fully well know there are No Serial Numbers on any of those pieces! No airplane has S/Ns on the parts that comprise the fuselage.

Well I guess I should have included maintenance repair numbers with serial numbers. Don't they slap a sticker on fuselage parts when they replace them for damage or cracking and keep a record for the FAA? Those look like standard replaceable panels. Wouldn't there be serial numbers on standard parts? Regardless there are no identification tags on any of the parts by crash investigators. There seems to be no effort to identify the parts. That part Congresswoman Berkley photographed out on the lawn was never publicly identified. It sat there apparently for days. Maybe that part is from a much smaller or much larger aircraft. How come nobody bothered to take another photo or two of it? Doesn't that seem odd?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0771539c8c52.jpg[/atsimg]

High resolution image of mystery part at Pentagon

Berkley Surveys Damage to Pentagon

Only known photo - likely created in Italy

posted by weedwhacker
In this, you for some unknown reason announce that is "likely created in Italy"!!! Is that supposed to be some kind of joke?!?

You didn't know? Honestly? That photo turned up from some poster in Italy. No other source. Why would some poster in Italy have access to an alleged Pentagon employee who allegedly snapped that photo, and without any chain of evidence or photographic record whatsoever? Doesn't seem suspicious to you?

posted by weedwhacker
Finally, the FDR. Again, this is OT, since it's the AAL77 unit(?). Frankly, I have to look into that more, since I've never seen a cylindrical one before. It is the correct color, and has the white stripes....and is obviously charred --- hmmmm, wonder if the S/N was burned to be unreadable?? AND, on 'top' of sooty bootprints??? What an incredible stretch of imagination!! Of course, NO ONE would walk around the thing, bend down and peer closely at it, would they???

Well I got that photo out of the Department of Defense Official Pentagon 9/11 book. You don't think the Pentagon book is legitimate? Neither do I; but what the heck it supports the self-destructing 9-11 Pentagon OFFICIAL STORY and I will use it anyway to hasten the destruction.

The alleged black box is sitting right on top of the footprints. But I can picture some Gomer FBI agent saying "Well golleey; what is that there thingamajig?" and leaning down to pick it up and peer at it a bit and then set it back down right on top of his own footprints. That's out there by the Exit Hole where all that fragile DNA miraculously survived the fiery furnace blasting the hole through the C-Ring wall. Absolutely amazing wasn't it? 9-11 has created more miracles than JESUS GOD Almighty Himself.

But then I can picture that same Gomer FBI agent going out to his car trunk and getting that alleged black box and setting it on his own footprints. That is what they do according to their long sordid history. They were trained by J Edgar himself.




[edit on 5/15/09 by SPreston]

Originally posted by SPreston

posted by weedwhacker
In this, you for some unknown reason announce that is "likely created in Italy"!!! Is that supposed to be some kind of joke?!?

You didn't know? Honestly? That photo turned up from some poster in Italy. No other source. Why would some poster in Italy have access to an alleged Pentagon employee who allegedly snapped that photo, and without any chain of evidence or photographic record whatsoever? Doesn't seem suspicious to you?

Too funny, SPreston. Way too funny!

Swampfox screams that photos without chain of custody are worthless, while weedwhacker accepts a photo at face value, without any chain of custody...

Logic and critical thinking die another death at the hands of confused official story supporters...

By the way, has ANY government loyalist managed to show where the 90 ton Boeing was hiding in that shallow dug-out crater? I've seen all kind of off topic rants and attempted derailments, but nothing to support the official story.

Originally posted by turbofan
Give me a break CameronFox.
There are several videos of reporters approaching the scene within
minutes of the 'impact'.

That's NOT what I said and you know it. Of course there were media there within a short time. Just like any major news story.

You are claiming the light weight debris that was found 8 miles away was within minutes. I claimed no such thing. Now, Turbo, man-up and show me the media reports that show the debris in Baltimore,Pa right after impact. Show me a witness statement. Show me an FBI statement.

Feel free to actually do some research and watch them. I'm sick of
replying to your unfounded nonsense.

I've done FAR more that you sir. Your lack of substance in your posts is proof positive that you are clueless when it comes to the facts surrounding Flight 93. There is not one media report that states the debris found at the 8 mile point was discovered "within minutes" of the impact.

A picture and video tells a thousands words...in this case it DEBUNKS you.

And, as usual you failed to present one.

Edit to add:

Three-year-old Hunter Stoe was helping his father, Andy, with the trash Wednesday night when he spied a slip of paper on the grass near the trash can.

www.pittsburghlive.com...

This was at the 8 mile point. Nothing that states it arrived there "minutes" after impact.



[edit on 15-5-2009 by CameronFox]