Astrology misconceptions cleared up - World Ages, 2012, pandemic etc.

All of this is so interesting but also is very intimidating to me because I understand about 20% of what you're saying. I just wanted to say that just because people (myself) aren't replying doesn't mean they (me) aren't interested. I know that I, for one, need to read and re-read what you have written and absorb it.

I've just started reading the book Fractal Time by Gregg Braden and am in the process of trying to determine who I think is right about all of this 2012, NWO, etc.. Anyway, thanks...

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

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Thanks for the link. I've read another one of Bradens books and from what I've read I think he has a better understanding of many things than others that write about the same subjects. Not that I agree with him 100% on everything but he's the closest I've found to understanding things.

Hi Kokatsi. We certainly did need a thread such as this. I'm also of the opinion the the 2012 (related) forum(s) on ATS unfortunately has been filled with more 'ideas' than research and facts.

The reason I'm posting here is because I recently read a book called 'The Mystery of 2012', a book which contains a heap of texts from different 'experts' on the subject. Jay Weidner had an interesting intepretation of the Yuga system, read it here: www.jayweidner.com...

What do you think - is it just bogus or might it have some truth?

reply to post by napayshni57

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Yes!

Knowledge should be pooled. If we had a workshop together with an intuitive, various astrologers, conspiracy theorist and intellingent people who give you feedback we could come up with a useful mix, which may reveal some of the hidden structure of time.
For starters, this may be a forum like that.

I am planning to write a few sentences in simple language on what could be called gateways (important periods of time) leading us to the Age of Aquarius. Studying the coming years from the vantage point of vedic and other astrologies without the technicalities. I just wanted to state what I consider to be basic theories here first.

I could write a book, or a chapter in one. This forum allows me to have feedback and interaction with people. There may be intuitives here. And you are right, interpreting charts is a gift. Although the Hindu system is easier for methodical minds because you go through a lot of methods and you let intuition come into the picture when you are finished with the most important connections. What I know of Western astrology is that it requires more intuition from the start. Its advantage is its spirituality as well as its principle-based explanations - something that the astrologers I work with are trying to import into Indian. (Maria Csom in Budapest ended up with far simpler techniques than orthodox Jyotish).

As far as aliens on earth, I sometimes believe in them, sometimes not. I tend to be more receptive to these ideas at night. I confess my beliefs change back and forth a lot.

I did read Hidden Hand, and Joan the Blind - that is how I got to ATS in the first place. I also read the first "Insider" posts which appeared on godlikeproductions.com and a second "elite family insider" that posted magical defense techniques and some more philosophy also on glp in 08.

After several months of studying these texts, I came to a conclusion that Hidden Hand is a very mixed bowl. I thin of the first Insider of 2005 very highly. I also like the second Insider (GLP fall 08), from Egypt, I think he is also genuine. I got to the conclusion though that Hidden Hand was manipulating and his information is deliberately misleading at some points though. I thoroughly enjoyed Joan the Blind's text, although I do not believe everything she says. That woman is certainly a master of style and she taught very useful things in terms of attitude and communication.

In so far as Hidden Hand says 2012 will be when some kind of cosmic ray will "harvest" the planet, this side topic does belong to this thread. Insider 2005 though made it very clear (his stuff is available in a pdf form, the glp forum where he posted was hacked) that we should not wait for grand collective events, that would only divert our attention from working on our own karma and finding out why we personally are on this "prison planet." That flatly contradicts HH's 2012 "harvest" communication.

Insider 2 last year stated that together with Insider 2005 they are rebels in the bloodline families. He says there is a magical war going on - if they win, we commoners could apply far more knowledge and would have more freedom.
See his thread at www.godlikeproductions.com...
Are you familiar with the two glp Insiders? I wonder what your assessment is if you compare them to HH and JTB.

Astrology as a map of time would confirm that we are indeed at a magical war. It is likely that 2012 will be a step towards much more people achieving powers. I doubt that the main function of learning among the difficulties presented on this planet will change radically in the near future though. But my view may change if someone provides new stuff.

Reconpilot may be genuine. I look at these things as possible metaphors though. I also have a "beneficial alien" part in myself. Jung would say it is an archetype... I liked his thread.

reply to post by ub1476

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PICTURE LINK: www.world-mysteries.com...

I think it has some merit although it gives far larger numbers that do not fit in the 26,000 year model. As do most Hindu schools.

I believe amateur astronomer Walter Crittenden (the above picture of Hindu Yugas) who relates Yuketshwar's theories of the two suns to modern astronomy. See the following video:
www.consciousmedianetwork.com...

I should warn people here though that WC is a firm believer of all Yogananda's theories. (Yukteshwar who wrote the book 'The Holy Science' was Yogananda's master guru). The information he presents is great but he set out to prove every word of the preface to the Holy Science. Including the scripture reference that the Great Cycle is 24,000 years only. The thing is, as far as I know, at this point you cannot exactly tell how long the cycle is on an astronomical basis. My astrology would accept something closer to the mainstream 25,920 which John Major Jenkins writes. (It is a neat number, divisible by 60 and 27 - so it would yield complete cycles for both Hindus and Chinese.)

I cannot find the exact site where he set out his main arguments but he presents some great charts on precession speed etc. WC points out that precession is NOT caused by the Earth's wobble. Jupiter and other planets are also measured with the same precession rates as Earth. That would tell you that the whole solar system is in precession, so it cannot be caused by Earth alone.

reply to post by ub1476

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Part 2 of the Walter Cruttenden video:

www.consciousmedianetwork.com...

I don't know how to embed this - I would just open in a new tab. It is not as easy as google or youtube but good quality.

In fact I did not know he arrived at the conclusion that Sirius is the companion star of the Sun. Earlier he said it was either a brown dwarf or a back hole. I corresponded with him in 2004 or 2005...

I am not sure of that assertion. I also warn you (and others) again that he regards Yukteshwar as absolute truth. (I am all for Yogananda but I like science and discussions without foregone conclusions. Also, within Hindu astrology I tried Yukteshwar's difference rate (ayanamsha - how much you should count back from the Western zodiac and what year the two coincided), and in personal charts, it did not correspond well to my experience as well as Lahiri or Krishnamurti.

What is your take?

TO ALL: here's Cruttenden's picture link of the Hindu Yugas again:
www.world-mysteries.com...

I think it could be almost correct. These folks at the Spiritual Realization Fellowship argue we are no longer in Kali Yuga, because scriptures (the Vishnu Puranas) tell you that in Dwapara, science and knowledge are advancing, and in Treta Yuga people conquer time - time travel, folks! I Satya Yuga - the Age of Wholeness - which would be in about 10,000 years roughly, people do not even need to meditate or pray, they are in constant communion with the Absolute Being (Sat). I checked translations of the Vishnu Purana and it is very revealing. Women are not revered in Kali yug, and only bad people have power. In that sense, we could be heading out of the aftereffects of Kali Yuga. In this theory, you do have an introductory portion where you get used to the new state of existence. Like Kali Yug is 1,200 (according to the 24,000-year theory, so all the following numbers should be slightly larger pro rata) years, and its introductory part is 100 years on each side. (Every Yuga is double, descending and ascending.) If the turning point was around 500 AD, we arrive at the end around 1,700. Then come 200 years of intro to Dwapara. However, I do believe we have a Kali-type power structure almost everywhere still. I need not address this at a conspiracy forum. So this theory is far from being neat and closed to me... The world ages of signs are much better established to me.

The Purana says there are still wars in Dwapara Yug, and very few conflicts in Treta Yug (time war), but Satya is free of armed conflict.

I wrote earlier that the turning point between the Kali Yugas may be the same as the turning point to the Age of Pisces. It is close to 453 when the Roman Empire fell (West), followed by another 1,000 years of Byzantine Eastern Roman Empire (fell in 1,453 to the Turks if I recall well.) I am certainly not attracted by the Middle Ages, my instinct tells me that Pisces and Kali were operating there... Also in Byzantium, which was far more corrupt than the Soviet Union under Stalin.

I promise to sum things up again in far simpler language soon. I appreciate your feedback!



Please share your insights when you can - even if they may not be based on the technical stuff I provided. I am trying to work it out myself.

I also plan to write a short assessment of Gates of Aquarius here - I consulted a lot of colleagues, and I would expect a good Western astrologer such as Cosmicpixie to share their insights of 2012 and the years leading up to that.

reply to post by Kokatsi

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SUMMARY
So, you need TWO ZODIACS to have World Ages at all. The one I use for everyday astrology is according to the stars, sidereal. The other one comes from the four cardinal points - the equal days defining spring and fall, and the longest day and the longest night. That is what most Western astrologers use for everyday astrology. It is called tropical - moving.

Imagine two wheels with the same 12 equal zodiac signs, with the starting point zero degrees Aries right upon the other zero degree Aries.
That was supposed to happen some two hundred - or latest four-five hundred years - after Jesus. Then start to rotate the four-star wheel slowly backwards over the other one (which is practically unchanging for millions of years).

Right now we are about 24 degrees backwards, the rate is about one degree backwards every 70 years.

This is precession.

It does not matter which of the two zodiacs people use for everyday astrology. Results will speak for themselves.

However, if you want to say something about world ages, you've got to look at the relationship of TWO ZODIAC WHEELS TO EACH OTHER.

There are several theories where the exact boundaries of the sidereal zodiac are. That yields slightly different dates for the coincidence.

People who think we could be in the Age of Aquarius unconsciously refer to a time pattern which would put the appearance of Christianity (a Pisces phenomenon) BEFORE THE BIRTH OF Jesus. That's right.

If we are in Aquarius now or already in 2012, and the whole precessional cycle is about 25-26,000 years, it follows that Christianity began about three hundred years before Jesus.

That would be quite a bold statement...

In this thread I was not exhorting anyone to use the zodiac I use along with many Oriental astrologers. BTW, there are many varieties, Western astrologers working with the sidereal, and for a rarity there are Indian astrologers (usually outside of India) that experiment with tropical...

I merely pointed out that you need to move TWO WHEELS over each other to arrive at World Ages at all. Wherever Aries 0 degree of the tropical is, that's where the Age is named after...

The rest you can caluculate in your head.

However, back to content, I do think there are important gateways to Aquarius these days as well in 2011-2012, and then on. The energy needs cleansing before we arrive there. I will try to write about that in another thread when I have the time to recap them. Many Western astrologers who do not know the correct world ages make very good summaries and predictions of these years.

From the above it makes sense that Western astrologers working with tropical do not need the other zodiac for their everyday work.

(I wish more of them would acknowledge in some gestures sometimes that there are other zodiacs and other astrologies too. Indians for example must have a rough concept of the Western tropical zodiac as a starting point, otherwise they cannot understand their own calculations. This is not mutual.)

So the other topic will be without all the astrological or technical stuff, just some thoughts on the results of where the planets will be in the coming years. I would be looking forward to contributions both from prophets, seers, and tropical astrologers or Chinese or Mayan astrologers.
Of other world age systems too.

When I post that thread I will make a note here. U2U me if you have any more remarks, comments or technical questions. I will try to answer.

And I will keep on referring to this thread whenever I think someone could use some background in the astrological theory of the world ages and the two zodiacs.

Perhaps this topic is way too technical and dry, the other one won't be... It will be a few days at the least. (I will have to compare notes and sound lectures.)

Thanks for all flagging me and giving me feedback...

Kokatsi

What could possibly explain this is the belief that we are currently in a sub-cycle (a relief period to prepare us spiritually) of the Kali Yuga which is supposedly a very, very bad cycle and is described as the destruction cycle. This is one of theories discussed in Braden's book "Fractal Time" linked above. I just read that part and I hope I got it right... very coincidental. He says he only includes it in the book to illustrate how they DO NOT see 2012 affecting us for the same reason that you state... the cycles are huge. I still haven't finished the book... I've been busy lately and can only read in small bits unfortunately.



[edit on 19/5/2009 by Iamonlyhuman]

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

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Please do a summary of that theory when you get to it...
I am not 100% convinced that Yukteshwar is right ... but maybe he is. In an adjusted form.
I once cooperated with a guy who translated one of Braden's earlier books. I liked him a lot, he is an honest mystic. His description on seeing Lucifer was brilliant.

He was a bit too naive in my opinion about ancient Egyptian religion though. I tend to think about it along the lines of Stargate SG1...

I will try to find Fractal Time somewhere... and will check back in a few days.

Could you elaborate on what is NOT HAPPENING in 2012 if you take Braden's theory?

I think it is a gateway towards an Aquarian Age. One of the many. In brief, people may get to work with magical powers as Brade wrote in an earlier book. There will be three planets in the Indian sign Jyestha which signals magical powers and codes when 2012 dec 31 hits.
I do not think we will all enter a new dimension though. this stuff exists on Earth already but has been the privilege of the few... shamans and kabalists and gurus.

I will post a new thread on that but presently I have a lot of work to do.

Thanks for checking back!

Kokatsi

reply to post by sunny_2008ny

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To answer your question specifically and not in astrological terms. let me answer your question with questions

Does Sun & Temperature affect human behavior and emotion (Being Stranded in the desert, for example?)

Do colors(or light) regardless if our conscious can tell or not, affect our emotion? (like the color of the gases and lights produced by other planets)?

the Sun contains vitamin D.. so why can't other stars contain vitamins that can affect our physical and mental being as well?

Now as for why do location matter...

Even tho i was Born under the summer equinox sign Cancer, my position of birth at a specific time and location pointed me straight towards the constellation of Aquarius therefore i was born under the Ascendant of Aquarius (this is my sub-sign practically).

if i was born another hour later or couple of miles away.. imagine two lines slightly far away from eachother (starting from earth) moving towards space.. eventually you will be millions of miles apart.. and contain a completly different ascendant sign.)

imagine as you are born where your body is most susceptible towards the environment and atmosphere, the planet absorbs all the cancers constellations energy, but at the same time the light energy of certain nearby planets and constellations.

The exact formula of how the stars specifcally effect us, is still beyond my research, but I do accredit its credibility as i have done many friends astral charts and told many things specific and personal. I have created believers out of non-believers... myself included

Hello, I have been trying to understand all of this It is quite time consuming, extremely interesting.


I would love to know your take on the 29th degree of Pisces.

Thank You in advance

Hula

Please share your theories and compare. That is all I asked. Observe the two disks moving - without precession it is darn hard to explain. The other astrologer finally did not share anything technical with us. She just flamed me. Well a high school teacher can do that. But not supply theories of world ages, n'est-ce pas? And thatt is what interest readers here.

reply to post by HulaAnglers

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I will look it up in Sabian. Uniqui degree readings in Western astro.

BTW. this would mean a Sun on the 5th-6th degree in Pisces in Indian or sidereal. That is Uttara Bhadrapada. A father very tough or being a victim or both. Soul is always found by fate, your soul and intuitions seem to be at cross purposes with the practical aspects of the universe. Father may turn to drink, sickness, or early death. Or he may be a businessman who does not care about kids.
Difficult things awaken the spiritual power by STO direction and a lot of feeling. Boundaries are hard to draw with other people.
Could be a good artist, sensitivity is developing and should be used. Also, healer but then you have to learn some sort of methodical stuff. Related to the Earth and the body. Suspicious of the government (the King) all your life, and offices and bureaucrats never trust you.
This is slightly exaggerated, and it would be greatly modified by what house this is and where everything else falls...

"G"Day,

One question, how many planets do we have in our solar system?

I will give you a few guess's until you get it right, Ok Ill give you a hint.

It is not Nine!!!!!!

reply to post by Kernoonos

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I think you are alluding to the recent ruling by some astronomical society that Pluto is no longer a planet. It is almost as if some agnostic scientists would do that to irritate astrologers. There has been plenty of attemtps like that. (For example, astronomers who do not understand the first thing about astrology would go and say that the zodiac is not where it is supposed to be - see my earlier posts. It is not indeed, but we have established that in sidereal astrology which is done in the greater part of the world.)

I think we can safely disregard that. Pluto has been well established in astrology and its cycles do work.
The next one, Sedna, as well as the next-next one that was discovered a couple of years ago, will be irrelevant in astrology. Why?
Because Pluto's orbit is about 248 years. (Even if astronomers would qualify it as a moon or something else, it will show up in astrology.)

Sedna must be around 1,000. That means most people for hundreds of years would be born in the same signs. This would be irrelevant for personal astrology - except perhaps for world ages.

Then again, of course the Sun and the Moon are not planets in the astronomical sense. Indian astrology uses the term 'graha' which is something like 'prime mover.' Of course the Sun is not a planet, it is a star. Already the ancients made the difference in the Surya Siddhantha.

There are nine grahas: Surya - Sun, Chandra - Moon, Mangal - Mars, Budha - Mercury, Guru - Jupiter, Shukra - Venus, Shani - Saturn, Rahu - the North Node, Ketu - the South node.

The two nodes are where the Sun's course crosses the Moon's course looked at from the sky.

Since the model is to help Earthers, Earth does not count even though it IS a planet astronomically.

I also use the three outer planets Uranus, Neptune, Pluto. I do not use Lilith and Chiron or other small bodies, although in certain cases they do yield supplementary information... it's simply the case of defining your own system.

That is why I've got 12 planets in my astrology, to answer your question. The word 'planet' is a rough translation of the Hindu Graha - the Sun is a Graha, for example, but it is astronomically not a planet. Since we did not have a word for such an ancient concept, we use the equivalent word for 'planet' in Western languages. Actually, when that word was established is usage, you could not tell whether astrology or astronomy were more significant for civilisation as a whole.

(This is the OP answering, I am at my sister's computer, though... it may appear under a different name.)

Q'am Shield

One more point to my brother's explanation:

a summary

so we have an astronomical list of planets, and an astrological list of planets. The two are defined differently and serve different ends.

Astronomy: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptunus, Pluto (was disqualified recently but not ALL astronomers accept that ruling), Sedna (2003), and a similar body discovered in 2006 or 07.

Actually there is a debate ongoing if the last three should not be planets. Those who say no would end up with 3 planets. Those who say yes with eleven. Modern astrology mostly uses twelve.

And, there are some asteroids that verge on being a planet by size and trajectory - Chiron and Lilith being most significant. What puzzles astronomers is that there are bigger moons to some existing gas giants than either Pluto or Lilith.

Yet as my bro points out, astrology has its special point of view.
Whatever has cycles that can be appreciated if looked at from Earth can count as significant in astrology, if I understand correctly. With the Moon being the most important - the reason for your incarnation...

I find your post really interesting. But.... I doubt that what everyone says is right. I mean everyone has their own opinions on things about 2012. Some say its the end of the world. I have a friend that says its going to be a spiritual awakening. Some others say there's going to be another dimension similar to ours but different like a parellel universe. No one can be sure.

Therefore I can't say that you are very accurate as well. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just stating my opinion on how you said that everyone got the wrong idea. You have your own idea of 2012 and we have our own.

Most humans are scared of what's coming during year 2012 and try to make a happier and better prediction to calm themselves down. Its not something that offended the laws. They're just trying to find reassurance from happier and safer predictions.

Think about it. What would happen if there was a fixed theory on 2012? What would happen if the fixed theory was horrible news about the future? What would the humans do? Almost everyone around believes in the prophecy of 2012. If there was a fixed prophecy that gives us a dreaded end then humans would be devastated.

Therefore the way you said others misunderstood the prophecy of 2012 is also just an opinion. It's not a proven fact. Nor is it right for you to say others have got it wrong. They're just trying to reassure themselves yet you come here and tell them that their wrong? I find that rude of you.

I know I sound like I'm right and I'm scolding you but that's only half true. No, I'm not right. But yes, I'm scolding you. The way you knock down others' belief in what's going to happen in 2012 is rude. You're not respecting others' thoughts.

I'd really appreciated if you apologized to all the people out there.

Thank you for even reading Kokatsi, Ichigo.

He is simply not in the same league as cosmicpixie et al. I do not think he should apologise though... No matter how many people would think or vote two times two makes five, that does not make their thought equal to those who say it is four...
And many make the mistake of talking about an age of Aquarius as if it was not based on various calculations.

Kokatsi was courteous all the way through, in contrast to others like cosmicpixie who descended with a fury when he challenged their pet theories. It is people like her that should apologise. No arguments were ever supplied by these attackers, only flaming and a false claim for equality. Well, looks like there is no democracy in knowledge...

All this thread was pointing out was that 2012 is not based in the astrology of the 12 signs. The two are unrelated. 2012 is the end of the Mayan calendar, when sunrise at the winter solstice will occur roughly over the Milky Way's Centre.

Another unrelated counting is TimeWave Zero. Kokatsi did not devote much attention to it.

Most people believed in the Middle Ages that the world was flat... and those that said otherwise sometimes ended up in places way too hot.

That has changed only little apparently. At least the flaming is not literal.

I think maybe there is some sort of a cultural gap here between Kokatsi and some others - he is not American - despite his knowledge.

reply to post by Asriel

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Hi, I have to agree that Koka should not not have to apologise, this knowledgeable person kept his/her cool while being chastised and insulted throughout their exchange.

I have responded in a different way to a similar type of intervention on my thread(Sideral verses western) from leovirgo.

I have visited both sites.