Chemtrails and Black Helicopters over Colorado May 12 2009, page 2

reply to post by network dude

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Alright sure thing. They spread out and last long after the plane has passed by is the main thing. Sometimes half an hour plus. Most contrails I see disappear along with the plane on its trajectory path within seconds. That is why I'm really suspicious of these activities, as I also witness a normal 747 or passenger plane landing at the airport too. However these planes were not landing at the airport.

reply to post by watchtheashes

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do you realy think that the goverment would spray bad stuff that close to the academy where their best and brightest are training to fly planes? It just seems as if they might not want to poison themselves. Maybe I am looking at it wrong.

reply to post by network dude

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Ah but can you?

Can anyone? I have not once in all these years have heard or seen any sort of an "identifier" that can tell the difference. As for what was proposed to be "proof" was nothing more than normal meteorological phenominon one would expect to see in the upper air. I mean if you'd like I could go down the list of proposed ways that some have said to ID a so called "chemtrail" or its effects later on. All of them are explained by meteorology.

I have followed this stuff for years, and to date, not one piece of "evidence" (I use the term loosly) has even given me a pause. I am not convinced at all. I have not seen anything that is brought forward as proof of chemtrails to be actual proof. In fact what I have seen and what it did prove to me is that there are an awful lot of people that dont have an understanding of meteorology and aviation. And some people prey on these folks and fill their heads with nonsense.

reply to post by weedwhacker

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The curved plane curved right back and did the same thing again. I don't think that is standard procedure but maybe I don't know enough about planes. I'm sure these pilots are deliberately doing something though. I've seen similar things on the way to Denver too. We have a concentration camp here by Highway 115, and a complex of "government controlled" apartments (Seriously the sign says "GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED") so it makes me think they might relate to these planes. I'm not an expert on aviation though so I don't know for sure. Living here though, I've seen enough "normal" flight paths to know something is definitely out of place. I've seen training exercises and they're nothing like this.

reply to post by watchtheashes

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Is it possible that the ones that last a long time are just water vapor that froze and is trapped in the upper atmosphere and reacting much like a cloud would? I have heard some very convincing arguments about how clouds form and how long they last. I have seen days when there was no cloud in the sky and most planes that flew, left little or no trail, then on another day with some cloud cover, every plane left a trail and some lasted a while. It seemed as if the ones that looked real small (higher up) left a longer lasting trail than the ones closer to the ground. Just my observation.

reply to post by watchtheashes

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*sigh*

Sometimes the moisture in the air, at a certain altitude, is enough for a contrail to form, and then quickly sublimate (that's ice going directly to water vapor without the intermediate phase of going to liquid first).

At another altitude/temp combination the contrail will persist. If the air is relatively undisturbed then it will remain fairly compact. If the air is turbulent, it will may spread, it may become more diffuse. Eventually, sometimes, a contrail will begin to resemble a cirrus cloud.

I think it was Freud who said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Here's a brief lesson: (enjoy the music!)




Just found this one, it's a goody!!



[edit on 5/12/0909 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by GenRadek

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I guess gut feelings are as out of place as Christ's followers here aren't they. So that's not proof, but are you sure that they don't just disappear with the plane? Wouldn't there be cirrus clouds if the air was that cold up there?

reply to post by watchtheashes

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Sometimes an airplane has to be put in a holding pattern to land. Or it may need to change course, or kill time if its running ahead of schedual? Also could be an AF airborne radar on a traning mission and it maye require to loiter over an area. I have seen an E-3 Sentry once flying high in MN. No contrail though, but I do know those things must loiter. (i would dare ask if you saw a dish on top of the plane as this could answer that one! ) I mean usually there are many many explainations for what you see, and most of them are the ho-hum ones. So far my friend, as far as I can tell, nothing sinister.

reply to post by GenRadek

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I am on your side of the fence. But I would welcome some proof to make me climb over. I just think if "they" were going to try to poison the popluation, there are much more effective ways of doing that. (ie. water supply) But who am I to rain (acid rain) on anyone conspiracy parade.

reply to post by weedwhacker

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They stay too thin to be even similar to cirrus clouds. Cirrus clouds don't have a weird haze to them in the Sun either. I could be wrong you know, but when black helicopters are around something else is going on. I don't know myself, but I lean more toward the conspiracy side on this individual issue. This is not the first time I've seen this nor the best example, but today I just found the Kodak at the right moment is all I guess. Horrible camera for taking higher altitude pics I'll say that.

reply to post by network dude

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No I know! I was just making a broad statement over all. Sorry if it came out wrong!

reply to post by GenRadek

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I tried following them with a telescope once but couldn't really keep up enough to discern anything but a red insignia or body paint and a plane shape. The planes seem to switch it on and off. "It" referring to the "trail."

reply to post by watchtheashes

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Usually the contrail will spread if there is an upper jet stream that can disprese the trail. Also, the contrail can actually be a "seed" for a cirrus cloud to form from it. Sometimes the trail can stay thin when the conditons around it just wont allow for it to spread. Again, it depends on the upper air, the temps, the tempof the exhaust. Plus the wings and certain surface features on a plane can create condensation vortices that can turn into contrails as well. These last much shorter, but they can also merge with the exhaust contrail too.

reply to post by weedwhacker

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If anything they resemble "mamma" clouds before a tornado comes. That is the best comparison I can think of. A cross between that and a cirrus cloud.

reply to post by watchtheashes

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Well that appearence of it being "switched on/off" has more to do with the air its flying through. For a contrail to last the air must be at a certain moisture level. And the air is never uniformly even. There are always pockets of dryer air, or moist air, everywhere. What you obsereved is the plane flying through these pockets of air where its too dry to hold a contrail. Thats when the trail "turns off". When it goes back into the moist air, it "turns on". air rises and sinks and this also affects the contrail. Clear air turbulence. Its a very dynamic system.

Also, I got lucky cause when i saw the Sentry with the dish on top, I flipped! I'm a huge AF aircraft fan and this was my first time seeing a E-3 Sentry. The dish on top of the plane is very noticable. I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility explaination for the plane loitering.

[edit on 5/12/2009 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek

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Here in Colorado we seem to take the brunt of the Jet Stream's force and hence the weird weather all the time. More weird lately than ever before though...

I don't know if it'd be a smart thing to spray chemicals under or over or in the Jet Stream. I don't know why they'd be doing it in the first place. I want answers like everyone else. I use the term chem trail loosely rather than pin pointing it to chemicals. It could be weather modification or they might be trying to scatter the sun's beams for some unknown reason. It could be part of HAARP or it could be a contrail. The behavior(hard to show in a picture I'm sorry) suggests option A though.

reply to post by watchtheashes

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Here's something you may not realize. In your area there are dozens and dozens of commercial jets passing overhead every day. Conditions are not always conducive for contrail formation. Also, sometimes there will be 'bands' of invisible atmospheric moisture content that vary. So, as an airlpane flies through, it 'appears' that the contrail starts and stops -- which is exactly what's happening. It's purely natural.

As to being 'hazy'....well, that is what the ice crystals will do when the Sun shines through them. Sometimes, depending on the angle you're viewing from, you'll see a phenomenon called a 'SunDog'.

reply to post by watchtheashes

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Ahh you mention the jet stream! Now there is a very good reason to be weary of the "chemtrails" spraying idea. What good is it spraying whatever (dust, chemicals, liquids, particles of something, pollen, etc etc etc.) 30,000ft up, to target something below? Those winds will blow it hundreds if not thousands of miles away from where it was released. If you were to drop something (lets say for example a fine dust of "barium" as one claim goes) from 30,000ft over Denver. Now where is that dust going to go? Its at the mercy of the upper air winds. The winds change direction, speed, nearly all the way down. at 30,000ft, the winds can be blowing at 130mph NW, while at 20,000ft they can blow S at 75mph. And below that, there could be little wind, and below that at 5,000ft, the winds could be blowing N at 50mph. So what would the net effect be? Zero. And lets not forget, the dust will have been dispersed and really thinned out to the point of negligable. Just imagine taking flour, and dropping a lb of it from the 10th floor window during a windy day! Somthing easier to visualize!

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