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An Observation and Quick Comment

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posted on May, 12 2009 @ 11:48 AM
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I didn't know where to post this and thought this might be the best place, but if it isn't feel free to move it.



I must say I do really feel for the staff here. This “250 Incident” is just another example in a long running list of times the staff tried to do something good and then got bombarded like an artillery strike by half of the members of the site. It is like members of ATS are taking this great site for granted, in a sense it seems like some are abusing the freedom this site gives. I don’t know if this is more of a “group conscious” or not, but it is truly sad that we as members make the staff that run this free site pull out their hair only for trying to provide a better place and reward members. I have seen members in the last 24 hours act like bickering children jealous of another child who has a toy they don’t have, and IMO most of them were using “the abuse of the flag and star system” as a cover for what was really pure envy. But then again I must say that some of what was being argued against the “250 Clubs” existence did indeed happen. I saw a thread where the OP made a point to ask “everyone please star and flag this so I can join the 250 club”. It is like the staff has given us a rope and we are trying to hang ourselves with it, or they give us an inch and we try and take a mile.

Must we forget the true purpose of this site is to break away from the standard, cliché, and mainstream ideology and deny ignorance in the pursuit of truth? I am not saying by any means I did not act in a way I shouldn't have. I did get caught up in the pro side of the 250 argument; I believe that is because it is standard human thinking to want acknowledgment for deeds done, even when it really is not all that important. So there in lies the problem that will always persist within this and other sites; human emotion and instinct. ATS is no different, although a lot want to think we are, but at the core we are all the same and thus experience the same problems innate with any large community. If you think there are issues now what do you think would happen if ATS became a pure democracy? Nothing would get done and nothing would last. The chaos and disorder would be overwhelming and terminal. In the end we are all here for the same purpose, regardless if we all agree with each-other or not. Is it a big deal to reward members who contribute more to the core of the site, which is threads, is it really? But in hindsight does it really matter? In the end we all make up one collective entity and that is ATS of course.

I propose that we all might need to take a look into why we are here and what is our purpose here. I know that a lot of members didn’t even know or even care about this “incident”, but enough did to cause alarm, at least for me. In saying that I feel it is my duty as a member to create this lengthy comment on the whole issue, the issue that shouldn't have been that was. Is it a huge deal? I think it was, I think that not only was it a showing of some major lack of maturity and legitimacy of members from both sides of the fence, which is nessicary to continue giving this site it’s number one status among alternative websites, which has become the site we all know and love today. Also it shows the ever growing division present in members of this site in regards to “site ideology”, and like I said, thank God this is not a pure democracy or we would be in trouble. In conclusion I just want to say thank you to the staff here at ATS, and to all the members who make it up and make it the place we have all come to love. I don’t think I personally could ever re-pay what ATS has given to me, and I am sure other members who finally found a medium to express their voice, learn, and discuss in the vast and ever growing “hive- collective”, “norm accepting”, and ignorant world feel the same. So again, thank you all. ~Justin


[edit on 5/12/2009 by jkrog08]




posted on May, 12 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by jkrog08

I must say I do really feel for the staff here. This “250 Incident” is just another example in a long running list of times the staff tried to do something good and then got bombarded like an artillery strike by half of the members of the site.


Yeah, that's why the staff should use member polls to get a true sense of what the membership want or don't want. Otherwise, all it takes is a small handful of very vocal members bitching and whining and complaining to kill what was otherwise a really, really fantastic idea


GO ATS "Threader" Badge!!!





posted on May, 12 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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I admit I don't have a clue what the 250 incident was about. I read about the 200/200/200 club a few days ago and thought it was a nice bonus for quality posters. I thought the 250/250/250 was just a "cream of the crop" thing.

I'm not here for any points (fortunately), stars, flags, kudos or attaboys that may be offered. It's not like you can put them in your gas tank and get a mile further down the road.

I learned in grade school that being popular doesn't make you right or intelligent or moral or decent; it just means there's a lot of other idiots just like you and they run in packs.

This site has a lot of good information that's hard to get anywhere else and the mods do a good (and thankless) job of keeping the site one where everyone has a voice.

I appreciate the posters who present quality information without all the drama and will star and flag them even if I don't agree with their point of view. Intelligent and unemotional discussion is a dying art that ATS keeps applying the defibrillator paddles to only to have the herd stab it in the heart again.

It seems simple enough to follow the T&C. Why all the drama? Are we really such big babies that we have to be "right" all the time even when others politely point out that we're not?



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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Majordisaster: Yes, I agree with you about some type of recognition, but if it is going to cause the dissent and drama that it did recently then in my opinion it is not worth it. It is not worth to the members or the staff. It is to big a distraction from the main purpose of this site. If at a time the staff feel the membership as a whole can deal with a type of mass recognition in a proper way I am sure they will be happy to oblige. It is obvious they recognize the contributions of certain members, and it is obvious that they were not cutting down anyone that didn't make the cut, they wanted it to be an incentive, a way to achieve the future of ATS that we all want; a perfect site. Of course that is all IMO since I am not a staff member and thus not privy to their doctrines.

Whitewave: I also agree with you that this is not about popularity, but I am a firm believer that it is nessicary to award or recognize those that stand out above the rest in terms of dedication, contribution, etc. It also serves as an incentive for other members to make the "leap". But like I said above, if it is more of a cancer to the board to do so then it is not worth it.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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I don't think I've ever once decided on which thread to read based on someone's post count, or applause level or thread starting proclivity. In fact, I've never once checked out those stats on anyone here.

I recognize posters who usually have something valuable to add and will look to see if they are the thread starter or "last post" response on a thread before clicking to join in.

If there is a thread title that catches my eye and I see it's started by a known recalcitrant troll, I'll just skip it. Ability to make catchy thread titles is not the same as ability to make valid points in a discussion.

Most of my posts/threads here get ignored or flamed anyway so I don't bother to make many. I post on another gratis site that has no recognition system whatsoever and have started many threads there with good results. If you're a jerk or won't contribute in anyway to the site, they just yank your membership. Seems fair: fish or cut bait!

I agree that it would be nice to give rewards and recognition to the quality posters on ATS but isn't that what the applause does? Recognition, anyway. I feel sympathy for the mods and amigos who try to do nice things for the members and just get their feeding hands bitten.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


reply to post by whitewave
 



I feel sympathy for the mods and amigos who try to do nice things for the members and just get their feeding hands bitten.



Yea I know, it is like almost anything they do trying to improve the site causes half the members to attack them like a pack of wolves. I know that I for one am grateful they created this site.

I mean someone just made a thread in this forum basically telling the mods to "screw themselves". I know I would have a hard time dealing with that kind of abuse.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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Alright, I gotta say something here...I don't think you guys, especially new members to ATS, really have any idea of what "cream of the crop" here really is. Many of those who made the 250 club may have done so, but the rare gems in terms of members here are mostly moderators by now, and unfortunately do not post with the frequency they used to.

The truth of the matter is that we really didn't need the 250 club. It was a nice gesture, for sure, but we already had, and still have, the applause bar. That feature is often unknown to new members, and honestly the way it works is still somewhat of a mystery. It is based on some kind of graduated color scale, starting with a base color of green. It slowly grows brighter with quantity of posts, but changes colors with quantity of applauses. From green I think it goes to a yellow, orange, and I'm not sure what else. For mods it is different altogether, and of that I have no clue. There are very, very few members here with orange applause bars, but you can bet whatever they say will usually be interesting.

A choice few have actually broken the bar. And watchout for Valhall- she is over the top- and her account had to be reset I think- but she has over 600 applauses- so her mini profile is not reflective of what she has actually done here. I only mention that for new members, since any longtime ATSer knows that name quite well.


But suffice it say that applauses from staff are a very difficult thing to come by around here. The post or thread, and research behind it has to be stellar most of the time to get one- but not always. It is entirely left up to the mods and staff as to what they want to applaud. If you want elite, check the bars- that's where it's at.

[edit on Tue May 12th 2009 by TrueAmerican]



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by TrueAmerican
 


You know I have wondered about the "applause color" thing, no one in the staff really acknowledges it, lol, like it is area 51 or something. I wonder what the levels of color change are in respect to number of applauses?


Oh and 600 applauses?! WTF...I didn't think anyone had more than 200! That member must have been here since the beginning!

[edit on 5/12/2009 by jkrog08]



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Many of those who made the 250 club may have done so, but the rare gems in terms of members here are mostly moderators by now, and unfortunately do not post with the frequency they used to.


Not quite right:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


The truth of the matter is that we really didn't need the 250 club.


I don't know where this "club" mentality came from. It was a small gift for the Amigo's to those that participate across the board.


But suffice it say that applauses from staff are a very difficult thing to come by around here. The post or thread, and research behind it has to be stellar most of the time to get one- but not always. It is entirely left up to the mods and staff as to what they want to applaud. If you want elite, check the bars- that's where it's at.


It actually depends on the staffer. Some are liberal with applause. Others, like myself, are not.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by whitewave
I'm not here for any points (fortunately), stars, flags, kudos or attaboys that may be offered. It's not like you can put them in your gas tank and get a mile further down the road.

I learned in grade school that being popular doesn't make you right or intelligent or moral or decent; it just means there's a lot of other idiots just like you and they run in packs.


Well I agree that ATS isn't, or shouldn't be, about points, kudos, popularity etc.

But a nice "ATS Threader" profile badge would provide a great Goal for newer members to strive toward, and it would be something those who achieve it can wear with pride.

After all, why NOT take a little pride in a job well done?


It's like having nice clothes, or a nice garden, or a nice house, or a nice car, or nice furniture, or an extensive stamp collection, or winning a karate tournament, or getting a high mark on a test..... none of it really means anything in the grand scheme of things, but they are little things that people can take pride in.

"Threaders" work hard for the site just like everyone else; why not give them a little something to take pride in for their accomplishments?



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 



I don't know where this "club" mentality came from. It was a small gift for the Amigo's to those that participate across the board.




It came from the twisting of Skeptic Overlords usage in his OP of the term "like a 250 club". From there it became the monster it is now,lol. I have noticed that it is wise to be politically correct to some extent on this site due to all the members.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Others, like myself, are not.


Uhh, yeah, I'd say so... I'd probably have a heart attack....

And I have no idea why you linked me to the member list....

edit to add: I see you have that list sorted by number of posts... But how does # of posts= quality? That isn't what I was talking about intrepid.

And oh, I forgot to mention, some say that the color of that bar is a ratio of the number of your posts to the number of your applauses that causes it to change colors. I can't remember that ever being confirmed though, but it seems to be the case...

[edit on Tue May 12th 2009 by TrueAmerican]



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by jkrog08
 


Of all the sites I visit I can't think of one where someone hasn't made a posting that echoes yours, although your offering was notably more eloquent than the norm.

I'm afraid if you run a public forum, you're going to get the usual mixed bag of members, many of whom will inevitably complain about things.

Those sites that rigidly enforce the compliance rule end up dying out because the members just drift away.

They make some questionable calls in here, but nothing truly dire, this is the Internet after all, and it's not real life.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by Retseh
 



They make some questionable calls in here, but nothing truly dire, this is the Internet after all, and it's not real life.



Thanks for the eloquent compliment, but I must respectfully disagree with the statement I quoted. This does reflect real life, at least for me. And trust me I have a life outside ATS, but there are real and important things being discussed here. It isn't some "Myspace" or "Facebook" blog. There are potentially world changing things being discussed and analyzed here.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:39 PM
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There have been several times I thought to make a new thread only to hear in my head the accusatory reverberations of, "Use the damn search button next time!" There are also negative incentives.

That and trying to have an intelligent exchange of information only to have it polluted by those who post, "Ha! You're an idiot if you think that. Anybody who knows anything knows the PC and popular view so you're dismissed!" That gets tiresome. I just throw up my hands and move on. Threads can be a "club" for certain posters to pat each other on the back for "correct" thinking.

I tend to be interested in the posters who can carry on a conversation without that sort of childish ad hominems and self-serving approval seeking.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


You just have to find and remember the members whose threads are more professional and well organized and member moderated. Any long thread is bound to have some nasty comments or annoying arguments, there is nothing you can do about that, it is just the frequency of those that separates a thread from a "mega thread".




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