Lucid dreaming: Breaking the barrier

reply to post by NatureBoy


There are tons. Remember not to confuse a true OBE with a Lucid Dream, they are not the same thing.

You could get this book

The Holographic Universe
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242190243&sr=8-1

and reference Out of Body Experiences - pages 230-239, 257, 260, 272-273, 296, 298 within which he cites about 15 different sources and studies, including numerous instances of people having OBE's and NDE's where they travel to locations and identify things in the real world they could ONLY have known about if they were actually there.

If you are having true OBE's it would be simple enough to design an experiment with a friend to prove that you can astral travel somewhere and see something you would not be able to detect unless you were at the location at a certain time on a certain date. Simple enough.


[edit on 12-5-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by searching4truth


Just Google Lucid Dreaming and you'll find everything you need.

Found this
www.lucidity.com...

I'm thinking of getting back into it, as I've been on a consciousness expansion kick lately, through the use of Holosync meditation technology
www.centerpointe.com...

Personally I don't mind spending money on these kings of things, since they involve my own consciousness, and if that's not worth investing in, then I don't know what is!

Years ago (mid 80's) after reading Stephen LaBerge's works on Lucid Dreaming, I'd started to have them, but not reliably, and at the time I was quite interested in the DreamLight device they'd created, which later morphed into something called the NovaDreamer, but back then I didn't have the money to get one. Basically, it's a mask you wear over your eyes when you sleep, and it gives you Lucidity cues in the form of flashing lights and beeps.
After some searching just now, I've discovered that it's no longer in production, as of three years ago, but you can still buy it on E-Bay.

However, after some more searching, I've discovered the latest iteration of the DreamLight, called REM-Dreamer by a UK Company, and it's current and they are still developing new features for it!!!!

www.remdreamer.com...,4

It is clearly the most recent and the most advanced Lucid Dream induction device, and I'm going to GET ONE! Just need to top up my credit card later this week, and soon, it'll be in the mail! Can't wait!

This newest Lucidity Induction mask, has a very interesting feature, called TWC (Two-Way-Communication) technology - which allows the Lucid Dreamer, on achieving lucidity, to signal the device, with predetermined eye movements ie: look up and down in the dream three times to say "turn off, I'm Lucid now", which is perfect, since, once Lucidity is achieved, you don't want the device continuing to signal you, which would probably interrupt the dreamstate.

Better still, the REM-Dreamer Pro has a computer interface!

REM-Dreamer Pro is REM-Dreamer + REM-Dreamer Pro Computer Interface. Thanks to our PC interface the user can adjust all settings very easily on his PC by our PC software. REM-Dreamer can also play audio files from PC containing words e.g. “you are dreaming”, when REM state is detected. This type of cues is much more effective than flashing lights and beeps. REM-Dreamer Pro is the only (so far as we know) lucid dream induction device in the world which can be connected to PC and play audio cues. Also TWC technology has audio cues thanks to our PC interface.
www.remdreamer.com...,119

From all the research I've done on this, unless one is proficient in dream re-call and can learn how to easily identify regularly occuring lucidity cues from within the dreamstate, in order to be able to say to yourself within the dream - hey, I am dreaming, because that thing I just noticed can only happen in a dream, unless you have an inate skill for it, then the REM detection and lucidity cueing device (mask) is needed, and would represent the best method to regularly produce lucid dreams. Newbies who Leberge took into the lab to try out the DreamLight - about 50% reported having a Lucid dream on their FIRST night, many, the first lucid dream they can recall having, so it works.

An interesting experiment regarding any overlap between Lucid Dreaming and OBE experiences, could involve having a friend who's also proficient or has an induction mask as well - agree on a dreamscape which the two of you intend to share and experience together, at the same time, then decide in general terms what you are going to do together, where opportunities arise for novel things to occur. Then, in the morning, you both write out what those things consisted of, and compare notes, to see if there's any corroboration which would indicate that you shared the same "space". Just a thought, from the last post on OBE's.
A hypnotist couple once engaged in a study where they hypnotised each other, and the dreamscape they created together, was the same, and they were in it together, which is very similar to a shared lucid dream.

[edit on 13-5-2009 by OmegaPoint]

What you are wanting to do is an astral projection (OBE). It is similar to a lucid dream but not the same. The main difference is that in a lucid dream you can change any and all aspects of the lucid dream. However in astral projection you cannot change much and can observe mainly. (You can interact with astral enteties and others who are projecting at the same time.) In astral projection everything will be "very similar" to the real life version. for example if you go to China you will find a China, you will find it more or less as it is in real life, but with lucid dream there might as well be nothing there because there is no certanity that it will be the same.

Note: In astral things will look similar but not "exactly the same" because in astral it is like another image (semitransparent) is superimposed onto the real life "image". It is possible to strip through it and get it to "exactly the same" but that comes with practice.

Hope that helped.

reply to post by sticky


Lucid dreaming is definitely one of those things on my agenda as that would be incredible to master. Sticky I can empathize with you. I fell asleep while watching the sopranos on dvd and woke myself up by punching my wife (or rather, she woke me up) hard enough to give her a black eye for a week. We are now divorced but I don't think (?) that was the cause of it lol

There are different schools which lead to different expereneces.
I have experienced OBE and Lucid Dreaming, and I can tell you that the dreamscape can be a shared experience in Lucid Dreaming.

The approach to OBE and LD were from different schools of mysticism.
The results differed.

I would not make claim that there is not some form maybe even the dominant form of LD where the dreamscape is not shared.
I learned from the teachings of Don Juan, via Carlos Castenada.
In this school, the dreamscapes are shared, my experience, and their teaching. Read the books, It's in there.

I believe the technique is revealed in "The Eagles Gift." As an adult reading the book I was astounded to find a detailed description of my mystical experience while drowning as a child. An event completely unrelated to any school of mysticism, which I had never heard any reference to in any other literature or mystical school. It was the description of approaching the eagle. A journy the seer trys to avoid completing.

Such are our glimpses into other aspects of the universe. The interesting thing about the Teaching of Don Juan is that much of the teaching is unintelligable and meaningless, unless you have had enough experience to tie the description to the experience. Then perhaps you can build on the understanding. There is enough supplied clearly to begin. The rest will be revealed.

Perhaps my experience was simply a different one from yours.
There are more things in heaven and earth than are drempt in your philosophy!

____________________________________________________________

I will tell you this about the deepest of mystical experiences. They do not conform in anyway to our concepts of the physical universe, as such it is impossible to describe the other side of the doorway.

Language simply does not fit. Even our basic concepts do not fit. Like stepping from a world where you use one set of senses, into another world where you use a different set. You cannot bring back a description because there can be none. There is no correspondence, no sameness, no landmarks. Not even the body through which we filter all.

The experience is at once burned as an imprint upon your deepest being, and almost completely inaccessable to your own mind, except as vague refferents and anologys which you know full well reveal only a pale shadow of a rainbow written across your being.

You can choose to believe me or not. I have nothing to gain or lose.
I do not lie about these things, and have no need to agrandize myself.
I walk my own way and share with those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.



[edit on 14-5-2009 by Cyberbian]

I have had Lucid Dreams my entire life.. However, I didnt realize they were so special or what they were until I learned about it stumbling on information like the information on this site. As a child I had many out of body experiences and never had them again until I consciously tried to recently.

I have a question for you guys out there instead of any useful information for you which I apologize for. (I'm too new to start my own thread). I have found that when I am on my ADD medication, in particular adderall, I have a much harder time having these experiences. I want to develop this ability, however, to function in the 'real world' the adderall helps me alot. When I do not take it my experiences become intensified 10 fold. So I'm not sure what to do about it and was curious if any of you had any experience with that.

Another thing is when I was a kid I can remember my Astral Projection/OBE's or what have you were much more 'natural' and not as scary as they seem when I try as an adult.. But really I'm most interested to see how some types of medication can interfere with Lucid Dreaming and Astral Projection?? Thanks!!!! And I hope everyone's journey's in this are enlightening and meaningful.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Thank you so much for these links. I'll be spending quite a lot of time there. I've tried for both OOBE's and lucid dreaming,but sleep too deeply and rarely remember my dreams, more dream leaks when I was listening to the solfeggio frequencies, however. When I was young spent nearly a year in lucid dreams, though they were still so much fantasy scenarios at the time, rather than mystical experiences, or realms.

I'm going to keep trying. Sometimes I wonder if some people are sealed some how, kept from knowing for other reasons.

reply to post by Jeanne22


Drugs do prevent them. When I was not smoking pot and clear, they occured more frequenty, and were more vivid and memorable. With pot smoking, nothing, and very little dream recall.

Now the "drug" I do is the Holosync Meditation Program I referenced above, and the high I get is a continual evolutionary increase in conscious awareness and what I can only desribe as light.

So my next realm of exploration is going to be Lucid Dreaming.

It's funny, I used to suffer a kind of "attack" when I slept, and would sometimes awaken with panic attacks. If there were any "entities" giving me a hard time.. now I am their terror now that I am so aware, plus I believe very strongly in God. So when I master Lucid Dreaming LOOKOUT demons!!!

P.S. I've ordered my REM-Dreamer Pro for 197 Euro, and am anxiously awaiting it's arrival now. www.remdreamer.com...,4
I feel like I'm being a techno shamen explorer of consciousness!

I will report my progress with it, but from the research I've done, I do believe that it will work and will give me access to nightly Lucid Dreaming, and so I'll also start a dream journal to record my adventures.


[edit on 16-5-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Originally posted by preston067
I have a question,
Is lucid dreams the first step to a OBE ?
I would have lucid dreams every so often like twice a year. But the last few months I am able to do it almost every time I take a nap it seems to get easyer every time.
Also does everybody feel and or hear a vibration sensation just before ?
Thanks,
Preston

Are lucid dreams the first step to an OBE... yes and no. My experiences as an adult with OBE's is when I am experiencing sleep paralysis mostly in which you are aware but your body is still in its dream state and yes I experience that vibration sensation when my spirit/astral self/or what have you exits my body.. its a very weird sensation. When I was a child I use to have OBE's all the time but dont know how I had them.. all I knew is a would start floating down the stairs and see my parents sleeping then go flying wherever.. As an adult its not that easy now and sometimes my OBE's turn into something I would characterize as a lucid dream and I have a hard time telling the difference between the two.. The reason being is my 'lucid world' or 'astral world' seems so cartoonish and very not of this world..

Maybe someone on here can help us with that? But to answer your question, yes I believe lucidity is the first step to an OBE because you have to be aware your body is in its sleep state and yes I have experienced the vibrations.. which I read on here once before that this is common and the reason for the vibration is your astral body leaving your physical body..

this sounds very interesting indeed! are there any specific triggers for this type of dreaming? or does it come randomly?

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Thank you so much for your response. Throughout my life I have been fascinated by all sorts of spirituality and such. I believe that I had my first obe at 10 but it was due to someone taking me with them as opposed to my own efforts. However, a few times over the years it happend again. I do not think it is something that I necessarily control, at this point in time, it just happens, I can do more or less what I want once there but the process of getting there to me seems to an unconscious effort. I only recall one time that I actually made the conscious effort to do it and that time I was unsuccessful. Recently, I have begun truly exploring these occurances, and for a long time I struggled with how to reconcile it with religion (for some reasons I always go back and forth it, and when I can't find an explanation I back off of the religion and go "with my gut"). Hopefully, I will learn either how to control it, or why it happens.

Just wanted to add that I have many lucid dreams that I simply forget.
Many a frustrating morning has come when I could not even remember any regular dream.

Then I lucked out one night as I was falling asleep (deep alpha) and I remembered a lucid dream from the night before.
My dream recall is so much better now. (I can recall up to 4 or 5 dreams from the previous night).

I think it is like state dependent learning. Deep alpha is closer to the state my brain is in during REM. So every night as I try to go to sleep I now am remembering lucid activities from nights previous.
It is easier to jump out of that remembering, write them down, and fall back asleep.

What I have found is that the techniques listed do work. But the waking brain just does not remember. And I had made the conclusion that they did not work except randomly and infrequently.

Here is a fun dream: Try to have a regular dream where the topic is becoming lucid. It works, at least for myself.

BTW, has anybody read any of Montague Ullman's work? He wrote a book in the late 60/early 70s called Dream Telepathy.
He did all sorts of experiments (I think controlled in a lab... but it has been years since reading). But there is a case in there of shared dreaming between a man and a woman. I am going to have to look it up again, but I recall that the experiment went awry when the subjects got too involved in the "world creation" and decided to leave the experiment due to a freak out factor.
(If that was not in that book, I will dig around and find the case)

Anyway, LD sure does bring many questions to mind. I believe we are reality creators

A favorite quote from the teachings of Sufism:

Each being has within itself all knowledge of its being, just as the seed contains all knowledge of the tree.

We can learn much if we have the will to see how deep we can go within ourselves.

Life can be amazing.

This is my first post ever, so hi all.

I have been fairly interested in lucid dreaming for a few years now, I think it would be great to be able to be conscious in dreams and it would give sleep an added bonus since we all have to do it anyway.

I've read quite a bit of info about it on the web and have finally gotten around to completely following through with a dream journal, going on two weeks now. So I'm going the more common route I guess for one, but I also have been trying to stay awake while my body goes asleep, attempting to "slide" right into the dream-state.

I'm most comfortable lying on my side, but I always fall asleep in this position, no chance of being conscious going into a dream. I don't like sleeping on my back, but find it pretty much impossible to fall asleep this way...which is good. The trouble is, I can lay there for up to an hour with no dreaming. This is after sleeping around 5-6 hours then lying back down for another 3 hours or so.

The closest I can get is having my entire body relaxed so I don't even really feel it, a few of my muscles twitch sometimes, and just recently I had this in addition to having a "feeling" on my chin that spread then it felt like it was numb or paralyzed. Was hoping it would spread throughout my body, but it did not after maybe 20 minutes lying there. Also this latest try, my eyes got to the point where the blackness seemed very heavy and it was right in front of my eyes pressing against them. My eyelids also seemed heavy in a way. Some visuals but nothing that spectacular, just different shapes of blackness mostly.

Does anyone with experience have an idea how close I was? I'm not looking for people that have read a lot and are guessing, I would like input from someone actually experienced with wake-induced LD or whatever you call it. Thanks.

reply to post by Mak Manto


The best I could ever do was have a lucid dream within a lucid dream. This consists of having a lucid dream set in a dream generated scenario, "waking myself up" by consciously choosing to, and then ending up lucidly simulating events that I know should be taking place the next day (social events, people I'm supposed to meet etc.). Upon waking up the "second time" a deep sense of confusion sets in.

I'm curious if he actually lived out entire days in this way, including mundane uneventful human activity such as getting dressed and doing laundry. It would also be pretty interesting if he had unlucid dreams while in a lucid state that he then accounted in a lucid state and talked to people in his actual dream about them. There's definitely something unique going on inside that man's head.

It would definitely allow for some amazing feats if it could be done on demand. I'd gladly devote a night or a week's worth of dream time to study up and simulate results of 100 years worth of experimenting and studying.

[edit on 1-7-2009 by Eitimzevinten]

This post may be of value to those who are looking for a gateway into the Lucid Dreaming state and would like to train themselves to do it at will

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Lucid Dreaming (WILDs)

For those interested in utilizing this tool as a gateway to entering WILDs (Wake Induced Lucid Dreams) I have a couple suggestions.

First, sit in a laid back but semi-upright position, either in a lazy boy chair, or on your couch propped up with a giant pillow (or a bunch of pillows) - as opossed to laying flat on your back in bed. (there are reasons for this)

Listen to the full hour of Bach To The Future while remaining fully conscious throughout, while experimenting with noticing how your body may be falling asleep ie: loss of sensation in your hands, arms, legs, torso, and finally your face and head. At the end (when the Bach track completes), maintain Delta level meditation for 10 minutes in silence, and the moment that it begins to fade ie: you're starting to "surface" and moving out of sleep paralysis (sensing your body), switch to the Compassion Meditation for the next half hour, remaining conscious, while REALLY noticing your sleep paralysis over your WHOLE body. This will happen now very FAST, since you're already prepped for it from the Bach hour + ten.

Then, towards the end of the half hour of Compassion Meditation (it will just shut off at that point, but DO NOT MOVE to take out/off your headphones when it's over).

- Give your whole body permission at this stage to fall asleep, and then let your eyes, your physical eyes also fall asleep (they are also part of your physical body) and switch focus to your inner eyes, and wait for the hypnagogic imagery to take you directly into the Lucid Dream state, and use the Lucidy cue of looking at your dream hands, and if you make it "through" while conscious, but start getting excited to the point that the dream starts to deteriorate, then spin your dream body in circles, in a pirouette, like a dancer spinning, and remember, that the next scene will also be a dream.

In this way you can "spin" yourself from dream to dream, should any Lucid Dream begin to de-materialize as a result of the Lucidity.

And remember, that all people in your Lucid dream state are also just part of the dream - I often get caught up in trying to PROVE to THEM that it's all a dream, which takes my Lucidity down a notch or two although they are always astonished at my skill for levitating objects, including myself!

- Enjoy one or two Lucid Dreams in this way, and then just OPEN YOUR EYES, since you are already conscious within the dream state, so opening your eyes to waking reality is just a matter of opening your eyes. (although you may wish to do a "reality test" at this point, just to make sure you're not experiencing a false awakening, or dream about waking up!)

Just a suggestion - if you try this consistently, I'm pretty certain that you'll be Lucid Dreaming in no time.

The reason, is that the Bach track takes you down into Delta, and then the Compassion Meditation entrains to Gamma, which is a much higher frequency, and this simulates in many ways, the onset of the dream state when sleeping, except in this case, you've just spent the last hour and fourty minutes practicing being conscious while semi-unconscious or near unconscious..

And I've noticed deep body paralysis during the second Compassion Meditation track, along with increased hypnagogic imagery and visioning, than with the Bach - so at the end of that whole process, entering the Lucid Dream state ought to be a snap.

I'm going to start using this tool with that aim in mind, and have come very close a couple times, and though I've yet to try it precisely like I've just descibed, from what I know about it, it should definitely work.

Regards,

OP

P.S. Preparation Note - routinely look at your hands, turning them to look at your palms, during the day, and ask yourself in all sincerity "AM I DREAMING?"

For reference, here are both tracks

Bach To The Future
www.zshare.net...

Compassion Meditation (in mp3)
www.zshare.net...

Note: Compassion Meditation is a very accurate, as far as I know, simulation, of the deep meditative state of Tibetan Yogi Masters, and Tibetan Monks are coincidentially, master Lucid Dreamers..!
And in their case, when hooked up to the EEG, the Gamma waves appeared to be riding the deeper Delta waves, so this combo we've got here would be as good as it gets.

Should anyone attempt this, or be successful at it, please report! Thanks!
[edit on 24-6-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Thanks a lot for your info and the two tracks OmegaPoint. I've downloaded them and will start in on the technique you outlined. Will make sure to report back on my progress, hopefully we can have success with this.

I have self induced a lucid dream only once a week ago, but it didn't last long. I did get excited when i realized I was lucid but that wasn't what woke me. I started flying around but when I started to stress out a bit (from the heights I think) I used a breathing technique to wake myself up.

I managed to do this around 6am not to long after waking up. The technique I used was from a sleep paralysis tutorial I found on youtube.

I'm curious if anyone else experiences and spinning sensation before becoming lucid or experiencing self induced sleep paralysis?