Stressed out US soldier shoots fellow troops in Iraq

UPDATE: More details emerging from the Army Times website:

An American soldier got into a verbal altercation with staff at a combat stress clinic on Camp Liberty, Iraq, returned to the clinic and shot five people Monday, killing at least four soldiers, said an Army official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The soldier, whose identity had not been released Monday evening, was in custody, officials said.

The Associated Press reported late Monday that the accused shooter was a sergeant.

The shooting occurred at Camp Liberty, a large U.S. base on the western edge of Baghdad near the city’s international airport.

According to the Army official, details of the incident continue to emerge as investigators continue their work, but preliminary reports show the soldier was was being escorted to the clinic, for reasons not yet explained. Once inside, he got into a verbal altercation with the staff and was asked to leave. The soldier and his escort got back into their vehicle and began to drive away, according to the Army official.

At some point during the drive, the soldier got control of his escort’s weapon and ordered the escort out of the vehicle, the Army official said. The soldier then drove back to the clinic, walked in and began shooting, the official said.

Army reports show five people were shot; four of them, all soldiers, were killed. Their identities have yet to be released, pending notification of their families.

The condition of the fifth victim was not available Monday evening.

“Anytime we lose one of our own, it affects us all,” Army spokesman Col. John Robinson said. “Our hearts go out to the families and friends of all the service members involved in this terrible tragedy.”

During a press briefing Monday afternoon at the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Robert Gates expressed his “horror and deep regret” over the shooting, adding that officials are still in the process of gathering information on exactly what happened.

“Such a tragic loss of life at the hands of our own forces is a cause of great and urgent concern,” he said.

When asked if the suspected gunman had been deployed multiple times, Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said he did not have that information. However, he said, the tragedy occurred while service members were seeking help at the clinic.

“It does speak to me for the need for us to redouble our efforts in terms of dealing with the stress [of combat],” Mullen said. “It also speaks to the issues of multiple deployments [and] increasing dwell time.”

Whoa. A sergeant? Verbal altercation? That must have been pretty bad to steal his escort's gun and drive back and start shooting...Jesus. Man this sucks. I really feel for those guys and their families who lost their lives. He will be put to death most likely on a tribunal conviction.

You can get stressed in a hurry if you are not mentally tough. When I was in basic, some dude who was smaller and wore out, on a field march with some heavy gear, got so frustrated he turned and smacked me across my face with the butt of his rifle. I just stood there shocked. He ended doing a lot of hill climbs with gear that night.

Exhaustion + missing loved ones + sense of futility + a gun in your hands can lead to bad things, sure. Terrible tragedy though, my heart goes out.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
I'm surprised this didn't happen earlier.

Well, I'm not sure if this has been brought up or if this counts, but there was the story about that soldier throwing the grenade into a soldier's tent on like the first day of the Iraqi war...

reply to post by TrueAmerican


This is not the first time this has happened. You may recall a LTC who died in Iraq from huffing canned air not too long ago, quite suspicious behavior for a senior officer.

I know plenty of soldiers who would've waxed my BC in Iraq if he'd pushed them just a little further. We had the worst morale of any unit I was a part of in the 8 years I was in the Army. You have no idea what the pressures are after so many years of "War On Terror" bull#, and deployment after deployment. People snap, they break. Soldiers aren't any different from average people. This is a tragedy, and we should have compassion for all involved. We're all capable of the same horrors.

This was bound to happen,just a matter of time.The poor guys up there are beginning to realize that they are expendable assets in the eyes of the politicians and their commanding officers.

probly was a crack head

If you go to war you should be a warrior, and have no problem killing anything if ordered.
If you don't want that : stay home and fight only when you - personally are attacked, and you chose to fight.

This crazy philosophy of "Go kill them, but you must also be humane and disagree with killing" is causing these problems. You are either a samurai and have no such problems or you are a peaceful person.

Decide, wake up. Be sure of what you are doing : going to war or not.

But the problem as I said is also the hypocrite system that wants "peaceful soldiers". The result is mental problems, people who cannot reconcile "You must kill" with "Killing is bad". I feel sorry for them, the system put them in this situation.

Ancient humans never had these kind of wars.
In a tribe people fought only if they wanted to. Nobody ordered them around telling them what to be. So no mental problems.








[edit on 12-5-2009 by pai mei]

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by Darthorious
.... but it was leaked out.

I don't believe that is correct. The military itself released the story, although lacking detail, as I pointed out in the OP, because it is on the Army Times website...

They try to keep the lid on things like this to quicken the investigations so normally keep it quiet. As soon as a leak develops they are already prepared to release a press release in a case like this due to the fact it looks really bad from a public relations stand point if they don't make a press release.

There are times where the govt. knows a leak is about to occur before it does and is pro active depending on the situation and the type of publicity it will present the public relations office with.

There were several times on our base where people were calling from local news stations asking questions before releasing the article and that is usually when we would release a press release about the incident if it involved someones life. As little as possible would be released in order to keep the investigation as quiet as possible until the persons involved were discovered or apprehended.

After reading about this, I looked into the incidents of 'fragging' in Vietnam, which usually consisted of enlisted men murdering their commanding officers - basically for sending them on suicide missions in order to get promoted, among other things. I was surprised to see how rampant it became towards the end of the war, along with 'mutiny', or 'combat refusal'.

www.isreview.org...

No one knows how many officers were fragged, but after Tet it became epidemic. At least 800 to 1,000 fragging attempts using explosive devices were made. The army reported 126 fraggings in 1969, 271 in 1970 and 333 in 1971, when they stopped keeping count. But in that year, just in the American Division (of My Lai fame), one fragging per week took place. Some military estimates are that fraggings occurred at five times the official rate, while officers of the Judge Advocate General Corps believed that only 10 percent of fraggings were reported. These figures do not include officers who were shot in the back by their men and listed as wounded or killed in action.

The source is probably a bit biased, but it was still a good read. I recommend reading it in it's entirety.

No one knows how many officers were fragged, but after Tet it became epidemic. At least 800 to 1,000 fragging attempts using explosive devices were made. The army reported 126 fraggings in 1969, 271 in 1970 and 333 in 1971, when they stopped keeping count. But in that year, just in the American Division (of My Lai fame), one fragging per week took place. Some military estimates are that fraggings occurred at five times the official rate, while officers of the Judge Advocate General Corps believed that only 10 percent of fraggings were reported. These figures do not include officers who were shot in the back by their men and listed as wounded or killed in action.

It even happen on navy ships off the coast.
Except it was never listed a frigging it was just another man lost overboard on a dark night.
And it was not limited to officers.
some E6s and above fell overboard under mysterious conditions.
In the navy it was said that they were dogging wrenched.
A dogging wrench was a piece of pipe about a foot long that was used to tighten the dogs on water tight doors down on a navy ship.
One was found by every watertight door on a navy ship. and they made a very good club for knocking someone out before tossing them overboard.

Many officers and leading enlisted men had PTSD from the fear of being flagged or dogging wrenched.

I know of officers that were taking away in strait jackets because they were left play toys like bullets. live grenades or dogging wrenches under the pillows on there bunks.

One i saw that had a pit next to his bunk to dive into if someone threw a grenade into his tent.
someone did and it fell into the pit.
because the officer was drunk and passed out he did not hear it till it went off.
The officer was found rolled up in his bunk unharmed but catatonic.
He was still that way three weeks later when they shipped him back to the states.

The base commander listed it as a attack by a base VC infiltrator.
but we all knew better.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by ANNED]

its coming together during the hard times.

[edit on 12/5/09 by spearhead]

Savage Battle In Iraq Targets US House Speaker Pelosi, Leaves 5 Dead

By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers
www.whatdoesitmean.com...

Russian Military Analysts are reporting to Prime Minister Putin today that dissident US Military Forces operating in Iraq engaged in a “furious and savage” gun battle with American Special Forces Troops guarding one of President Obama’s top political allies, US Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi [top photo left with Iraqi leaders], who was in Iraq on a surprise visit to coordinate with Iraqi officials the containment of the Kurdish regions of their Nation that have fallen under Israeli control and threaten to bring both Turkish and Iranian troops into Iraq further destabilizing the Middle East.

US propaganda media reports on this battle are reporting that 5 American Soldiers have been killed at their large Iraqi base where Pelosi was holding her meetings in what they are stating is a case of a mentally distressed soldier killing his comrades, but which these reports state was a deliberate attack upon the US House Speaker by these dissident forces and ordered by top US General David McKiernan [photo 3rd left], who immediately after this attack was relieved of his command by President Obama and replaced by US Special Forces Lieutenant General Stanley McChrystal known to be loyal to those forces protecting the new American leader from his formidable Israeli enemies.

What is not known at this time, these reports continue, is what the response to this attack will be from the Iraqi government, who without their help the Americans will be powerless to stop an Israeli attack upon Iran’s nuclear facilities launched from the massive Erbil International Airport that Israel has financed, re-constructed and is currently protecting in Iraq’s Kurdistan region allowing their nuclear equipped fighter aircraft to have immediate access to Iranian airspace.

Though not being reported to the American people by their propaganda media, Iranian artillery and helicopter gunships have begun attacks upon Iraq’s Kurdistan region under a number of secret agreements signed by President Obama that included the releasing of the convicted US spy Roxana Saberi, who holds duel US-Iranian citizenship, and has confessed to being an agent of the CIA, and Obama’s “assurance” that US Forces in Iraq would not retaliate against Iranian forces.

Turkish forces have, also, been viciously engaged in protracted battles against the Iraqi Kurds with their Iranian allies and are continuing their airstrikes against Northern Iraq in order to prevent the Israelis from securing a foothold in a region that all parties agree would plunge our entire World into Total War.

Not being understood by the American people is that Obama has, for the first time since the presidency of John F. Kennedy, launched an all-out assault against the powerful Israeli Lobby that many experts say has corrupted American Foreign Policy and led to their disastrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and which a new survey by the Boston Review shows over one-third of the American people blame the Jewish people for the current Global financial crisis too.

Especially angering the Israelis was Obama’s ordering his Assistant Secretary of State Rose Gottemoeller last week to call for the first time in history for Israel’s nuclear weapons to be brought under the control of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, and which Iran says that “Israel’s undeclared arsenal of approximately 200 atomic warheads is the only obstacle in the way of a nuclear-free zone in the Middle East.” Read the rest of the story from the link.

I don't know about the stories that come from this source, but they do put a new slant on issues our Media Propaganda Organ chooses to ignore. What do you think?

reply to post by Hazelnut


The Generals involved:

General David D. McKiernan, USA is the Commander, International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and Commander, U.S. Forces Afghanistan (USFOR-A). His resignation was announced on May 11, 2009, but he will remain in command until his successor Stanley A. McChrystal has been confirmed by the Senate.[1]

He was Commanding General, U.S. Army, Europe from 2005-June 2008. Prior to that, he served as Commander of CFLCC from 2002-2004, which had responsibility for all allied ground forces in the Middle East. In this role, he oversaw the 2003 ground war against Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi regime as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He assumed command of NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan on June 3, 2008. [2] He assumed command of both ISAF and USFOR-A on October 6, 2008.

On May 11, 2009, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he asked for the resignation of Gen. David McKiernan. Gates said new leadership was needed as the Obama administration launched its strategy in the seven-year-old campaign. [3] en.wikipedia.org...

Lieutenant General Stanley A. McChrystal is the Director of the Joint Staff. He has been selected to replace General David D. McKiernan as Commander, International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and Commander, U.S. Forces Afghanistan (USFOR-A), although McKiernan will remain in command until the Senate confirms McChrystal's appointment.[1]

McChrystal previously commanded Joint Special Operations Command from 2003 to 2008, where he was credited with the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, but also criticized for his role in the investigation of the Pat Tillman friendly fire incident. en.wikipedia.org...


Pat Tillman: Patrick Daniel Tillman (November 6, 1976 – April 22, 2004) was an American football player who left his professional sports career and enlisted in the United States Army in May 2002. He joined the United States Army Rangers and served multiple tours in combat before he was killed by "friendly fire" in the mountains of Afghanistan. Details about the circumstances surrounding his death have been the subject of controversy and military investigations. en.wikipedia.org...

i]reply to post by Hazelnut


so in short what you are saying:-

* "US Military Forces operating in Iraq engaged in a “furious and savage” gun battle with American Special Forces Troops guarding one of President Obama’s top political allies, US Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi "

* "deliberate attack upon the US House Speaker by these dissident forces and ordered by top US General David McKiernan "

* "US propaganda media reports on this battle are reporting that 5 American Soldiers have been killed at their large Iraqi base "

* "Iranian artillery and helicopter gunships have begun attacks upon Iraq’s Kurdistan region under a number of secret agreements signed by President Obama"

* "Iraqi government, who without their help the Americans will be powerless to stop an Israeli attack upon Iran’s nuclear facilities launched from the massive Erbil International Airport"

* "Turkish forces have, also, been viciously engaged in protracted battles against the Iraqi Kurds with their Iranian allies "

* "Obama has, for the first time since the presidency of John F. Kennedy, launched an all-out assault against the powerful Israeli Lobby "

* "Obama’s ordering his Assistant Secretary of State Rose Gottemoeller last week to call for the first time in history for Israel’s nuclear weapons to be brought under the control of the Non-Proliferation Treaty"

just a quick question... isn't General David McKiernan in Afghanistan and not Iraq?

There has been a dramatic shake-up in how the United States is handling the war in Afghanistan , with the top US general in the country, David McKiernan, being asked to step down.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

also from this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

"If we delay our peace negotiations, then there is going to be another conflict between Arabs or Muslims and Israel in the next 12-18 months," he said.
King Abdullah in Mid-East warning.

and here isreals talking about fixing the iranian nuclear "threat"

Their common goals – and Mubarak speaks for the Saudi king Abdullah on this issue – are the formation of an Arab-Israeli front against Iran and putting a spoke in US president Barack Obama's planned détente with Tehran.
Talks Aim to produce Arab-Israeli Front versus Iran

so yes....

Iran, Turkey & Syria + Vs. Isreal, Egypt, Jordan +

the CIA has orchestrated the end of the arab world.



[edit on 12/5/09 by spearhead]

[edit on 12/5/09 by spearhead]

Given the incidents like this that we see in the general population of the USA, I am not surprised to see this occur in a population of the military, in a much more stressfull environment with alot more guns.

As sad as it is, this is just another incident in a long line of US citizens taking out each other as a solution to problems, the only difference is, it is in a military community out of the country.

May the deceased rest in peace, and those left carrying the burden of the consequences of this incident find some way to overcome and recover from the insanity of these senseless acts.

I'm just guessing there's not one reply on this thread from someone with at least a Bachelor's Degree in psychology. I don't have one myself, but have read and discussed a lot on the subject. I'd be willing to wager that PTSD is about 99.9% more likely to cause suicide than f-ing mass murder! The psychopath has to be born with a deadness-nothingness inside that most of us can't even fathom. Having strong THOUGHTS about mass murder is easy and common enough, but to actually DO it takes a whole different kind of animal. One day the truth will officially come out about the small percentage of psychopaths in the military, but until then, here's a very brilliant article by Dr. Kevin Barrett:

www.agoracosmopolitan.com...

Originally posted by Hazelnut
By: Sorcha Faal....

The instant that name is mentioned, nothing else needs to be said. In fact, nothing else should be said, because you can guarantee it is a lie. The only entity capable of lying more is the US government.

My first thought when I heard it was a counseling center was he was just at his wits end and they would not allow him to go home. I don't have a clue about military terminology or rules, but I am sure they do send soldiers home if they are disturbed enough,...I hope!

I hate war, there is no winners and everyone looses. We fight for lofty principles but use dastardly means. These soldiers are regular guys and girls that for whatever reason chose to give service to them. I hate the recruiting commercials making it a stepping stone to a great career. Sure, if there is enough left of your mind after seeing murder daily, being berated by superiors, and living in anything but a normal situation.

Will mankind ever learn to live without war?

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by Hazelnut
By: Sorcha Faal....

The instant that name is mentioned, nothing else needs to be said. In fact, nothing else should be said, because you can guarantee it is a lie. The only entity capable of lying more is the US government.

Well you may be right. I don't have any evidence to suggest that any single source is completely accurate. If you would be so kind as to guide me to creditable sources I would appreciate it.

Whatdoesitmean.com is a single source of info and links to other sources. I don't know who Sorcha Faal is do you?

Considering this is a conspiracy forum, I assumed that sources of information were always welcome.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
Considering this is a conspiracy forum, I assumed that sources of information were always welcome.

And most of the time, they are welcome, as long as the story jives. But in that case, Scorcha Faal has long been known around here and many other places to be consistently bad. Like worse than bad. Intentional lies that only suck in the unaware. Anyone attempting to start a thread here with that name as a source get the thread trashed.

It is difficult to trust any source at this time, as we have proven plenty of times before. The mainstream sources usually get part of the story right at least, depending on the subject. And since this is all we've got for the moment, I'd go with that. I did provide at least three sources in the Original Post (OP).