The one thing that never changes.....

The one thing that never changes is the fact that things always change....

Phrases such as this one just come to me from time to time and they seem, to be true and somewhat deep.

The reason I bring this up is because this phrase came to me just yesterday. Let me specify that when I say "came to me" I do not mean by any psychic means, I mean that I think alot about philosophy and in doing so I come across these little sayings and phrases.

This phrase is just standing out in my mind and I can not seem to get it out of my head. For that reason I keep coming up with all kinds of questions about it. Call it a sort of a philsophers curse. You come up with one possible truth and it raises a million more questions.....

Anyway, I am curious of a few things, and I apologize if this thread is poorly written, as I am not quite sure how to word the questiosn I have about this phrase.

I will give it a go however....

First, what does everyone make of that phrase? What does it mean to you?

Also, If things always change then what is so special about the fact that things always change that makes it exempt from the rule and therefore does not change....

Does the fact that that phrase does not change void the statement that things always change?

Once again, I just want to apologize if this thread is hard to follow at all, I just had a difficult time putting my thoughts to paper today for some reason.

Above is just the few main questions that have arisen for me. So with all that in mind, what does everyone think? I am curious what everyones answers to my questions will be and what if any questiosn arise for you when reading the above statement...

[edit on 11-5-2009 by gimme_some_truth]

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


"The one thing that never changes is the fact that things always change"

I think its a good thing to say, it represents how contradictory and politically correct society has become. In a way society is voiding itself from within and what you have said sums that up but I dont know if you will agree with me on that but its what it says to me.

I just thought up a few of my own on that note.

"You can see me, you can feel me, so why can you not hear me?"

"Give me a voice and I will tell you a story, take my voice and you become my story"



[edit on 11-5-2009 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


At first I was a wee mite confused, but I think I understand what you are trying to get your head around.

It's almost a contradiction. The one thing that never changes is the fact that things always change. But if things always change, then so must this axiom. And if it's true, then things might not always change, but then this would void the entire maxim. Convoluted, for sure.

Do things always change? Is there something that is eternal, and fixed beyond all changing? Is blue always blue?

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


The more things change, the more they stay the same .


Another perspective :

Every youthful generation attempts to usurp their elders , until one day it dawns on them that they too have grown up , and they now represent the status quo . Resistant to change , disconnected from the " youff " ...... assailed by their odd ways , music , fashion and slang. .

And so it goes........

The details change , be it the 60`s 70`s 80`s etc etc ........
but the process remains the same.

......just a thought.......

[edit on 11-5-2009 by UmbraSumus]

Originally posted by azurecara
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

At first I was a wee mite confused, but I think I understand what you are trying to get your head around.

It's almost a contradiction. The one thing that never changes is the fact that things always change. But if things always change, then so must this axiom. And if it's true, then things might not always change, but then this would void the entire maxim. Convoluted, for sure.

Do things always change? Is there something that is eternal, and fixed beyond all changing? Is blue always blue?

Yes, that is exatly where my mind was trying to lead me with this, I was just having a hard time for whatever reason getting my thoughts in order last night. I was tired I guess.

Thank you for helping me word my query in a more understandable way.

It is very true.

It is the source of most of our Suffering in life.

It is what breaks our hearts when we loose a lover, or a close one dies.

It is why being happy at buying new clothes or a car don't last.

It is the reason we should not grasp at things because when we are separated from those things however that relationship both physical, ie job or status, income, rich's, or emotional a Lover or family member letting go is much harder.

It is the ego's pointless game to convince us otherwise, that both "I" and ourselves will go on forever, and also to fight and do wrong to have something for a small time, that will eventually change no matter what it is, so you dont have what you fought for anymore anyhow!

It is THE driving force behind the physical universe and how we experience it.......


It is Impermanence and driven by Dependant Origination (Karma but not the western pop view).

Called better everything Arises, everything falls away, and whatever arises if you break it down and look closely you can never find anything that has always been like that, so names and labels are just tempory and really mean nothing, have no intrinsic value.

Inquiring Mind: Could you briefly explain the three characteristics and their role in the Buddha's teaching?

Joseph Goldstein: The three characteristics-impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and selflessness-are a clear and succinct description of the nature of conditioned phenomena. When we look, we set that all experience is constantly changing; that it is therefore ultimately unreliable; and that experience is arising out of conditions rather than simply our wish that things be a certain way. However, just understanding these three characteristics .is not the end. It is the wisdom that comes from experiencing them deeply that frees the mind from grasping.

Source

and further:

The three characteristics are not just philosophical statements about the nature of the universe; that is not what is important. They are practices. There is a great paradox here because these truths are at once both obvious and hidden. They are obvious when we make the right effort to actually awaken to them in the moment, and they are hidden when we are simply carried along by the habit energies of our lives.
For example, on one level impermanence is so obvious to almost everyone that on the whole we generally ignore it. It is such an ordinary truth that we don't give it any importance. And yet, when we do pay attention to it, when we bring some real interest and energy to that seeing, when we are actually vitally experiencing the impermanence of our present experience, in that moment the mind is not clinging. This is an immediate fruit-a mind free of contraction, a relaxed heart.

Joseph Goldstein Interveiw Wonderfull and succint on the Op's topic.

Kind Regards,

Elf

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Wow that was a great post. I starred you for it. You are correct to.

We fight so hard to gain material objects when in the end they are just going to go away and ultimatley do not matter in the long run.

What of emotions though? What I mean is, I believe that they are something that do matter in the long run and are something worth trying to gain. Love, anger, sadness, hapiness and so on. All very different feelings, some hurt and some feel great, but I woould want to experience each of them.

Change though. Chage is a funny thing. To think of the things always changing is very profound. I wonder why it is that things always change though.

Do things change because of how we percieve them? And as our peception changes so do the things around us? That seems a fair assesment to me.

Would things change if they were not percieved by us? In other words is the ability to change contingent upon whether or not an object is percieved and if so, how does the way we percieve it affect how it changes?

See what I mean about the philosphers curse? Upon every truth revealed lies an infinite number of even more questions waiting to be answered.

What does everyone think about these latest set of questions?

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to see it - does it actually fall?

It's reality in a way. Is reality subject to our own perception of it, or does it exist outside of our perception? Are we just imagining this reality?

Originally posted by azurecara
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to see it - does it actually fall?

It's reality in a way. Is reality subject to our own perception of it, or does it exist outside of our perception? Are we just imagining this reality?

So in other words you are saying that the tree has not actually fallen untill some one has observed/percieved it falling?

Am I following you correctly?

I do believe that reality does in a sense vary from person to person as no two people observe/percieve one thing exactly the same. Their mere position (where they are standing) would alter how it is percieved would it not?

Another way to word your question is, if a tree is in the forest but no one has ever seen it, does it exsist?

Everything is transitory, but if it's always in transition, then in a sense, it's permanent, since it's always a variation of the same thing over and over again. The permanence of impermanence.
I get the paradox, and it's perhaps the most interesting of them all.

The more things change, the more they stay the same - may be a better saying.

I'm just glad there's something and not nothing..

Ahh Gimme I do ever enjoy your threads.

Always a bastion of information and good topic discussions.

As far as your request, I definetly agree with the phrase for one.

I think it shows how as human beings we are always trying to generalize and say "This is how it is". Takes physics for example, we've been attempting to say ok this is how everything works and that's that, there is no other way other than the equation we've set out.

But in recent years things like quantum physics and quantum mechanics have drastically changed our perception of the way things work.

Things are always changing.....

It goes to show that we as a human race cling to what we know, and have a fear of the unknown. Power, greed and the hoarding of information is all in part due to our natural instinct to be right all of the time.

When the truth of the matter is...we know nothing of how things work. We can never say we know what something is, for it is only our best guess at the time.

Things are always changing.....

Nothing happens in this world without input and output of various forces. For the above poster who stated the tree has not fallen until somebody has witnessed it fall, that is partially true.

Do you consider a tree to be a sentient being, capable of noticing if it's environment is being threatened? You may say no, I say yes however. My proof is that some trees will extend their roots for HUNDREDS of miles to find a source to nourish themselves.

A non-knowing tree would simply accept that there is nothing there, wither and die, without forcing itself to transform into a bigger mroe power creature.

Trees are alot like people, we may look tall and imposing, but even the biggest of trees rely on the smallest veins beneath the surface to function properly.

~Keeper

[edit on 5/11/2009 by tothetenthpower]

Originally posted by OmegaPoint
Everything is transitory, but if it's always in transition, then in a sense, it's permanent, since it's always a variation of the same thing over and over again. The permanence of impermanence.
I get the paradox, and it's perhaps the most interesting of them all.

The more things change, the more they stay the same - may be a better saying.

I'm just glad there's something and not nothing..

It truly is an amazing paradox isnt it? It is one that I enjoy thinking about so much because it raises so many questions and just as many (if not more) thoughts.

But I wonder, does the fact that things always change, render the statement "The one thing that never changes is the fact that things always change" Untrue?

Or does it make it MORE true? ( If there is such a thing as more true...You know what I mean)

[edit on 11-5-2009 by gimme_some_truth]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Ahh Gimme I do ever enjoy your threads.

Always a bastion of information and good topic discussions.

As far as your request, I definetly agree with the phrase for one.

I think it shows how as human beings we are always trying to generalize and say "This is how it is". Takes physics for example, we've been attempting to say ok this is how everything works and that's that, there is no other way other than the equation we've set out.

But in recent years things like quantum physics and quantum mechanics have drastically changed our perception of the way things work.

Things are always changing.....

It goes to show that we as a human race cling to what we know, and have a fear of the unknown. Power, greed and the hoarding of information is all in part due to our natural instinct to be right all of the time.

When the truth of the matter is...we know nothing of how things work. We can never say we know what something is, for it is only our best guess at the time.

Things are always changing.....

~Keeper

First off, thank you. I am so glad to hear you enjoy my threads. I only post a thread if I feel it will be a decent thread that leads ot great discussion and loads of information...Although even I have had a couple of threads bomb before....

It is all about quality and not quantity my friend.


That said, you are right, People find one way and we get used to that way, and we are afraid to even consider that there are other ways.... We would rather scream and shout and call the other people liars than listen and find out and learn...

Galileo got in trouble for suggsting that the world was round because at the time it went against what was being taught by religious leaders and other teachers.... Now we know that the world is in fact round.

"The one thing that never changes is the fact that things always change."

Something else I have said before that better fits what I think you are getting at is this:

" Hudreds of years ago it was fact that the world was flat. It wasfact that the earth was the center of the universe. Now we know better. My point is that Facts change, the truth, stays the same."

I said that in another thread once, I can not recall which one now, but it has always stuck with me. It seems to be a different way of saying "the one thing that never changes is the fact that things always change"

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


The Symbolism of Infinity Notice how not only does the symbol appear self inclusive as a Universe among itself. Now notice how the Universe is 'entwined' symbolizing how the matter in the Universe itself flips upon itself in a constant flux of re-creation.

Since the dawn of creation, life as been evolving/changing into a new creation more adapted and adaptable to it's host environment. Whether organic or inorganic, animate or inanimate, all things change. Basic law of nature of which can not be denied.

The essence of the saying as I interpret, is the importance for one to realize that 'change' is a natural process for the advancement of a higher purpose; Creation itself. Therefor since change is natural and expected, it should be accepted as a natural course itself and not resisted by established norms of the day.

Where there is 'resistance' there is a problem. Where there is a problem, there will be 'change' until a balance is achieved. Concerning humanity itself, one could call this many words such as yin & yang, karma or whatever 'concept' one chooses.

Our souls/energy may be everlasting, though our host bodies/minds are still adapting to our environments.

The problem in current society is the practice of divide and conquer techniques by a few who wish to control their brethren while benefitting from their very existence.

There will never be peace until mankind learns to acknowledge the Brother in another and once again to "Do unto others as you would have done unto you". Basic law of humanity of which if breached, bears its own consequences.

One may get financially wealthy at the expense of his brother though they will never find peace until they give it to their neighbor.

The People of the world must unite in mind and identity if they are to 'advance' from their current status. I'm hopeful though not impressed with all the greed and lust for power I witness day in and day out.

A 'real' education is a good start along with a village to guide one though not to control the purpose of one's End. People should encourage and enhance the gifts hidden in all of mankind. Perhaps salvation from oneself's current predicament could very be found in the 'collective'.



[edit on 13-5-2009 by Perseus Apex]