The Crone: The forbidden face of the divine feminine

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posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:47 AM
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Interestingly, the Christian version of feminine divinity excluded any portrayal of one of the most powerful aspects of the Goddess, the face of the old, wise crone. Three faces of feminine divinity were common throughout pre-Christian traditions, that of the Virgin or Maiden, the Mother, and the Crone. Mary embodied the first two as both Virgin and Mother. The third face of the Crone, representing the culmination of feminine power and wisdom, was excluded from the Christian canon of saints. The Church's rejection of the Crone is significant in that it is precisely the Crone figure who later came to symbolize the ultimate enemy of the Church—the witch.


No link: copied from book, The Dark Side of Christian History by Hellen Ellerbe

It's not my intention to start an anti-Christian tirade....there are plenty of those on the Web...but reading the passage above did get me to thinking about how this aspect of the divine feminine is not given its due in Christianity nor indeed in modern life in general...age is seen as the enemy of all people and women particularly, who are encouraged by commercial society to "fight growing old every step of the way" with a battery of cremes and pills and powders...meanwhile woman and the alluring youngster or the fecund mother seems to make people much less uncomfortable than woman as Wise Old Crone...there is no doubt that by pushing the Crone underground and acknowledging only her shadow-side as Witch, we have denied ourselves an important aspect of spirituality.




posted on May, 11 2009 @ 05:35 AM
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Thank you for this thread. It is true that women, past 40, are not allowed to be sexy and when women ignore that "Rule" quite often they are ridiculed for it. After all, There is nothing more pathetic than seeing mutton dressed as lamb, is there? I have often said it, too.
However, this is something that both women and men believe.

Women of a certain age are deemed to behave age appropriate and that often means being de-sexualized and sterile. Women who are strong and are outspoken but also do not do much with their appearance are harpies and shrill (think Germaine Greer). The term Crone no longer has a positive conotation and women who are elderly are pitied rather than respected. It is total indoctrination, instigated to weed out paganism by the root.

[edit on 11/5/09 by Lebowski achiever]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 06:12 AM
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Very interesting post. Thank you.

I well remember some old women being referred to as Crones when I was a child.

Now that I am an old crone I can see and understand the stages a woman goes through in her life.

I would like to add the newly coined term for a 40ish woman who still dresses like a spring chicken. The "Cougar" very aptly describes that age group.

Not to infer that all 40ish women are"Cougars" but a good many certainly are. I know because I went through that stage too.

Back on topic....I believe women were more highly thought of several centuries ago.

The down playing of woman's role in society has, in my opinion, has been brought about through the many translations of the Holy Books. The christian bible being a perfect example.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


Thank you for a great post, and it's about time this was recognised properly. It's such an important part of spirituality, and has been denied for centuries, mostly because of the Christian church's insistance on persecution of the witch in society. I don't want to start an anti-Christian rant either...far from it...but the roots of the problem do lie here. Older women were often the healers and midwives in the community, and as the Church and the medical establishment grew in influence, these older women, who were not ritual magicians, or remotley connected to the dark arts even, were persecuted at witches for their healing and herbal knowledge, very often ancient knowledge that had been passed to them from previous generations. Suppression of this knowledge in the face of modern thought and practice, particularly in the medical world, was the order of the day, and the power of the Crone was denigrated as "old wive's tales".

Still today, there is a huge pressure for women over 40 to conform, or shut up. Either you have all the surgery, diet yourself down to a size 8, and dye your hair, or you're overlooked. I feel it too...I'm 43, not a size 8, and the grey strands apprearing at the front of my hair are very welcome. I earned them! Also, long hair is traditionally a power statement for witches, and I will not get mine cut, even although there is lots of outside pressure to do so.

I'm only just starting to realise that true spiritual power arrives with our forties and beyond, and to pretend we are anything less than that is giving our power away to fashion and nothing more substantial.

[edit on 11-5-2009 by caitlinfae]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:04 AM
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I tell you what, is about time somebody did a threat to address the aging issues of women and how we are affected by social issues and social norms, that now a days are actually dictated by the fashion business.

While back in the ancient times women as they aged were venerated, while during Christianity women that found themselves widowed needed to be taken care by the husbands brothers.

I am 48 and like many women in my age range, aging is no longer a thing of the future is part of life at this stage.

To tell you the truth after going through a series of aging issues and accepting my fate, now I feel energized and with much to still givet to society.

Occurs I have taken the healthy path of good eating, exercise and a great outlook on life, I by not means consider myself a crone yet.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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I'm so glad this came up. Kudos to the OP. Anyway, I am a pagan as I have stated elsewhere on the boards and I of course honour all the three faces of the Goddess. I too do think it's a shame that they took the Crone out of the gospels, and centered on the negative aspects of it. If women still had their power in religion, and this is truly my beleif, there would be less chaos, more harmony, peace, and less war. They took women's power away specifically so we'd not have any say in any governmental affairs and such. And just to be on the record, it is'nt only the christians. In the Jewish old text they demonized her as Lilith, the islam, need I say anything? I mean they can't even show their faces in public. It was a power play Men took long ago, and one of the reasons also, was so that men could take women's assets and do so legally, for instance if their husband died and they had a very large estate that they left to their wife, laws protected her right to that land, but when the religious text was changed, so was the law; so self serving men could legally take away from a widow what was lawfully the widow's, and do this without being in conflict with religious law or the law of the land! It's really sad when you think about it.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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I belive women have a long way to go to be respected at any age.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 



Great quote. S&F. Thank you.

...An important point and subject, dear to me heart. ...and let us not forget the important role crones/"witches" played as repositories of medical knowledge and as village healers. A huge loss to the Inquisition, perhaps the most significant.

sofi



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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The position of man and women have very little to do with what society chooses for them, and very much more to do with the way our minds work.

You got the man, creator of souls, and the women, eater of souls. Society will never change this.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by CrygSol

You got the man, creator of souls, and the women, eater of souls. Society will never change this.



Oh my.

I sometimes wish I had time to waste on frivolous discourse.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by CrygSol
I belive women have a long way to go to be respected at any age.


I'm sorry but no, not anymore. Women here in the UK are respected. There are still pockets of ignorance but they are small. What is interesting is how it is now turning around with men being portrayed as stupid, lumbering, fools. Check any sitcom and you find the woman is powerful, succesful and able to manipulate her man with ease. Women have gone from oppressed to starting to treat men how they themselves used to be treated. I'm sure many women will say good and that men deserve a taste of their own medicine. I would ask however if that makes them worse than the original oppressive men.

As for the age thing, i think this isn't just women that are disrespected as they age. Ageing as a whole is seen as bad, people don't appreiciate wisdom or experience anymore. It's a sad state of affairs now when in the past the older members of a tribe or society would be revered and treated as the holders of great insight.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by CrygSol
The position of man and women have very little to do with what society chooses for them, and very much more to do with the way our minds work.

You got the man, creator of souls, and the women, eater of souls. Society will never change this.


That is ridiculous. From the beginning of time the destroyer has always been the male aspect and the creatrix female, we are the mothers, nurturers, and healers. You know nothing, but what some crazy backwards book tells you.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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Do you consider Catholics to be Christian? They pray to Mother Mary. She plays a prominent role in their belief system. And yes, she is a woman.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:36 AM
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I'm sorry but no, not anymore. Women here in the UK are respected. There are still pockets of ignorance but they are small. What is interesting is how it is now turning around with men being portrayed as stupid, lumbering, fools. Check any sitcom and you find the woman is powerful, succesful and able to manipulate her man with ease. Women have gone from oppressed to starting to treat men how they themselves used to be treated. I'm sure many women will say good and that men deserve a taste of their own medicine. I would ask however if that makes them worse than the original oppressive men.

As for the age thing, i think this isn't just women that are disrespected as they age. Ageing as a whole is seen as bad, people don't appreiciate wisdom or experience anymore. It's a sad state of affairs now when in the past the older members of a tribe or society would be revered and treated as the holders of great insight.


You have a very good point there. I am packing my bags as I type this...I'm ready to move to the UK...LOL. I do beleive all of what you stated about all the aging. They are not given the same respect any more and that's a problem. Their wisdom isn't being handed down to the generation below them and that's why we have increasingly ignorant people in this world!



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
You have a very good point there. I am packing my bags as I type this...I'm ready to move to the UK...LOL.


I believe that people should be able to laugh at anything, even this, however i would point out that if the roles were reversed here and a man had made that joke, the feminists would be down their throat calling them backward, oppressor, and no doubt chauvinist.

However yes come to the UK! We need decent people to spend money in our economy


As for the age thing, i'm not sure it's fixable anymore. Kids often don't respect their own grandfathers and grandmothers. They're more likely to go and beat up a pensioner for the five pound they have in their pocket..............Ok i must stop reading The Sun, it's making me even more cynical.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984



I believe that people should be able to laugh at anything, even this, however i would point out that if the roles were reversed here and a man had made that joke, the feminists would be down their throat calling them backward, oppressor, and no doubt chauvinist.

However yes come to the UK! We need decent people to spend money in our economy


As for the age thing, i'm not sure it's fixable anymore. Kids often don't respect their own grandfathers and grandmothers. They're more likely to go and beat up a pensioner for the five pound they have in their pocket..............Ok i must stop reading The Sun, it's making me even more cynical.



It starts with the parents. Now my children only have grandparents from my side, unfortunately their father's parents are deceased. I was always taught to respect my elders, especially my grandparents, And would listen to their thoughts and stories out of just such respect, and I have taught my children the same respect. There are so many things I learned from my grandparents that remains with me till this day. I even tell my children those stories also. It's fixable but it starts with every family.Hey maybe someone should write a book about just that. And Uh oh I think we're a bit off topic here.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


I meant by myself, I belive everything you have typed is very true, it's infact the exact reason I said that.

There is a double standard, a lot of guys are bothered by, it's nothing new.

Anyway, what I said has little to do with the topic.

What is the name for a woman who goes through the cougar phase during her 80s? I've seen one before, and it really freaked me out.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by CrygSol
 


And that is from what? pardon my "female" ignorance but can you give a "reliable link that support that opinion please".



Never mind, the thread is too good to be take away by comments like that.


I always has seem our gender as not just females of the species but the goddess of the earth.

Men has done the impossible to steal that position away, but sadly unless they grow an uterus they will never will.


[edit on 11-5-2009 by marg6043]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:02 AM
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This LL Research transcript may “resonate” with some.

“ The question this evening, Q’uo, has to do with why is it men throughout history and up to the present day are so afraid of women, or the feminine principle? All the way back, each religion seems to have some way of subjugating women so that they are not able to partake in the priesthood, in officiating, giving the rites of the various services to the congregation. I was wondering what it is about the feminine principle that is so threatening to the male. Could you give us some information in that area please? “

(Carla channeling)

“We are those of the principle known to you as Q’uo. Greetings in the love and in the light of the one infinite Creator, in whose service we come to you this evening. We thank each in this circle of seeking for setting aside the time and the energy to form this circle and to seek the truth. It is our privilege and our pleasure to be called to your circle and to share some thoughts that we may have upon the subject of the male and the female principles and their difficulties in sharing third-density existence within your culture……”

www.llresearch.org...



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:03 AM
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reply to post by CrygSol
 

Your comments are disturbing and small.
Makes me feel only sad for you.

Peace...





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