The Push to Revolution

Two hundred and thirty two years ago, a group of soon to be immortals got together to sign a little document written by a gentleman from Virginia named Thomas Jefferson...

It was called the Declaration of Independance.

Declaration of Independance

In it they framed the reasons for breaking away from the British Empire. They staked their lives, and the lives of their families, on this endevour. They, with help from the generations following, created something special. That something special has resonated through the dreams of millions all over the world.

A few years later, another group, many of them the same men who framed the Declaration got together and framed how this new and fragile nation would govern itself. After much discussion the Constitution was created and ratified.

The Constitution of the United States of America

Both these documents have had a profound influence not just here in the United States, but in the world at large.

As I said, America represents a dream to the many oppressed people of the world. Rightly or wrongly, that dream is what drives them to take what we would consider insane risks to get here. Yet they come, both legally and illegally, in their thousands to seek that dream. We who live here know the reality, America has warts, lots of 'em; yet somehow it's still something special.

America stands at a crossroads in its history and existance as we know it...the govt. at the national level has forgotten who really is in charge here, so too have the people who are in charge. It's time for a wakeup call to the govt. and to the people of America. Over the past few decades we've watched a slow erosion of our countries basic premise, that of govt. of... govt. for... govt. by... ...the people. Mostly because the people have decided that they would prefer to let the govt., at whatever level, do their thinking for them. Which would work if the govt. was run by a bunch of saints...well as we've painfully discovered over the years, it's not. No saints, just men and women who by ill intent, or just plain over their headedness, screwed the pooch. The second is forgivable, the first, not so much...

What is necessary to foment this change? Bloody revolution? Voting? Breaking up the Union? What?

Some of you may or may not be familiar with my views on politics and how to foment change. I was, and am, a passionate believer in revolution by the ballot box, not the gun. But in recent years I've watched a federal govt. becoming more and more about govt. of... govt. by... and govt. for... ...the govt., and less and less about the people it's supposed to be serving. This must change, and soon... We, as Americans, must stand up for ourselves. If we don't, who will? The President? Forgive me if I'm just a bit cynical about that. Congress? The Supreme Court? Lobbiests? No. No. and (hysterical laughter) No. Us. It all comes down to us, the citizens, me (seagull), you (the reader), and all our neighbors. We used to stand up for ourselves, and help our neighbors... Why does that have to change? Have we grown so reliant on the govt. for our thinking, that we are unable to see when times require us to think for the govt.? That time has come, my freinds.


Sorry. That soapbox was just standing there empty...and well...



[edit on 5/12/2009 by seagull]

reply to post by nenothtu


The current progressive attempts at the marginalization of dissenting opinion focus on turning the dissenters into ‘angry rich white men’ who refuse to do their patriotic duty of paying more taxes; thus the constant hammering of the anti-tax issue. SG is merely following current ‘talking points’ attack list put out by White House Progressive Response team to the Tea Party Protest. A tactical divide to conquer maneuver.

reply to post by seagull


Bravo! Well put.

Let us all hope the Government heeds the people's voice before violence is ever reached.



[edit on 12-5-2009 by Anonymous Avatar]

reply to post by SGTChas

‘angry rich white men’

What's this thing called "rich", you speak of? I have no familiarity with that at all... Angry? Yes. White? Glow in the dark, baby. Man? Last time I checked. But rich? Beyond my scope...

After casually reading the first 8 or so pages of this thread, I just had to remember my old username and log in just to say something...

What the F is the deal with all the childish crap from the extreme of both sides?

To assume that people dislike the government because our president is black is spewing ignorance. Maybe they dislike the government because taxes go up and up and up, actual income goes down and down; rights are lost on a daily basis; schools teach lies to children; the government lies about their actions, their intent, and their will; the list could go on for 5 pages.

Point is, it has nothing to do with the fact that our presidential puppet is black.

One member said that the government can be changed via our votes and will. This is also untrue. The voting system is completely false. Do some research on vote counts, electronic voting machines, and the electoral college.

Don't you think people have tried to make this happen the right way?

Do you REALLY think that a good chunk of American citizens banded together and said "Ok guys, instead of going to the poll place today to voice our opinions, let's just sit around and drink beer for another 15 years or so, then we'll get off our asses and go fight for a revolution!"

Come the F on.

We are ALL getting screwed from behind here. And instead of seeing it, realizing it, and tasting the sh** in the air, most of you guys are too damned busy arguing with each other about things that honestly don't matter the least bit.

Yes, Texans can be assholes.
But Californians can be assholes too.

No one said they hate California. I have spent my entire life in California, minus the last 3 years. I love the place, but the people often times lack a few things upstairs.

Why is everyone so damn concerned with race, money, status, opinion, and ethics?

Picture it like this: You and a polar opposite (as far as opinion of government goes) are locked in a room together. This room is filling with water, and the only way to get out in time and survive is to open the door.
But here's the catch!

Each one of you has an earpiece, and through this earpiece someone from outside is talking to you, telling you there is a certain way to guess the number code to unlock the door. They are also telling you that the other person is being told differently, and the method they are going to use is wrong and will render the door un-operable.

Instead of banding together to try and get out of the room or break the door, by intellect or by force, you both waste away your time and effort arguing with each other as to who is right and who is wrong.


This kind of crap consumes humanity on a daily basis, and it blinds everyone.

The truth is, no one really gives a flying fu** if gays can get married, or if some random guy has an affair, or if some celebrity (politicians included) said this or that, or any of the other crap we are spoon fed day in and day out.

I don't care if our president is black, white, male, female, human or a damn frog. All I care about is what his actions show.

And his actions show he is a horrible leader whom takes orders from anyone willing to offer him a financial tit to suck on.

This type of behavior would have never been tolerated until the last 20 years, so what has changed?

Everyone is pussified, worried about the deeds of fellow man, rather than himself, his family, and his country.

Just because the media tells you that no one likes blacks, or gays, or women, doesn't make it so.

What if the media told you that you don't like your own mother? Would you believe them? Would it be ok for everyone to judge you from that point on and assume they know your stance, without ever bothering to sit down and take a few moments out of their oh-so-precious day to get the real story?

The answer is no, just in case you need that spoon-fed to you as well. No.

Quit being a media-drone and take the time to understand where REAL PEOPLE are coming from.

It's your only hope.

reply to post by Phre0nBurn


How refreshing. The articulate citizens are out in full force today.

reply to post by xxpigxx

I was a police officer though, and have shot one person two dogs . . . so I am not a total waste of space in the upcoming war for freedom.

How long, and how long ago were you on the force?

The reason that I ask is because everone here, and everyone in America, and probably everyone everywhere has a breaking point. An individual and personal metaphoric line that if crossed, will inspire them into non-compliance or physical resistance. This breaking point exists even in a particular member who's mind apparently cannot be opened. It also exists in cops.

It is true that the discontented "talk" alot, and a good rant around the campfire can go a long way towards preventing ill advised and half-cocked action. It should also be noted by the numbers watchers that there are uncountable numbers of us who go to work day to day and don't take surveys who are quietly disturbed by the state of this country.

I know where I stand, and I know how far I will or will not be pushed by an opressive government. One of the big issues that I have always wondered is how far will the enforcers let it go. Certainly cops will be the first ones on the front lines in any type of civil unrest.

What would it take for an average cop to stand up and say I will not go through with this. Knowing it will mean your job and possibly more?

When I think about myself and my own resistance I am reminded of squads of police in New Orleans going from house to house for martial law disarmerment.

I wonder what percentage of cops would resist a disarmerment order that was due to UN treaty?

reply to post by AlienChaser


I got out about 3 years ago. I was in the force for about 5 years.

Why did I get out? Heh . . . I did not like alot of the newer laws that I was being forced to enforce (think Patriot Act). I also did not like enforcing some older laws either (i.e. seatbelt laws). So I told em to F off, turned in my badge, and walked away.

I could not do what my heart told me was wrong. Sounds kind of sappy lol

Originally posted by xxpigxx
I could not do what my heart told me was wrong. Sounds kind of sappy lol

It dosen't sound sappy to me. It sounds honorable with uncommon class.

reply to post by xxpigxx


Hats off to you. It's sad there are so many laws that do nothing but make money, or prevent somebody from losing money. Laws that ruin the lives of those accused, but have no victims. I would have probably joined, if we had a completely different government and the job was about helping people, not enforcing corporate will and punishing crimes that have no victims.

reply to post by xxpigxx

I got out about 3 years ago. I was in the force for about 5 years.

In your experience do you think that many other feel like you? Or would they just as gladly gear up the riot suit and go hunting for some confiscation action?

I think that the actions of those enlisted to enforce oppresive government mandates such as disarmerment, under the guise of whatever security measures they might come up with, will make a big impact on any resistance developing.

sorry guys I just found this post. Without a doubt more and more people are waking up. But there are still way too many that follow the msm and whatever is told. My own wife thinks that I am paranoid and delusional. My sister finally realized that something was wrong and advised me to stock up. This came after twenty years of my father and I have preached incessantly of what is now happening. There are still way too many people with their head up their rear end, or in my wifes eyes "can't ever imagine that people would do that". I"ve been told that I should cooperate with the police and let them look where ever since I have nothing to hide. They are only trying to make things safe. No one really needs a gun. And the kicker why do I want a gun with kids in the house? There is so much pure B.S. out there and people are buying it. To me, and I am sure others here, that are screaming their heads off, it almost comes to the point of letting it happen, out of stupidities sake. Sometimes people need a good slap to wake them up. Sorry for the rant I just needed to get that off of my chest.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Originally posted by Phre0nBurn
Picture it like this: You and a polar opposite (as far as opinion of government goes) are locked in a room together. This room is filling with water, and the only way to get out in time and survive is to open the door.

But then picture this...once you get out of the water room, you and your polar opposite have to live in the same house for the rest of your lives. Suddenly, there is nobody standing between you anymore, but all the animosity that has built up thanks to the brainwashing both have endured, remains. That would be a challenge, to say the least.

There are major differences regarding culture in this country. It has been used as a way to keep us all divided, very obviously, but it was there before government was manipulating it. I don't want to pick on religion, but a look back into history, as well as recent times, show religious fundamentalists don't like to share space with people they think are evil. In the event of an uprising, and violence in our nation, alot of people are going to cling to the extreme to survive, and I fear that will lead to violence between fellow Americans. Who knows where things could go from there, but I would predict that all the foreign armies that feared a united population would take advantage of the people fighting each other, and we'd all be screwed.

reply to post by Nicademus

I like most of your ideas, but I especially like your recommendation that you may not hold political office if you are a scum sucking, lying, lowlife that we generally call lawyers.
I believe we need a President and a Vice President, but we have to get back to the Founding Father's vision. A government with 3 branches that provides checks and balances.
The Founding Fathers are spinning in their graves right now. They feared a strong federal government, and went so far as to limit the amount of time congress would be in session. (It is true that part of the reason was due to the fact that most members of congress were farmers and could only meet for a limited time. But all of them depended on honest work for their income, and couldn't spend all their time in Washington.) These were men who did not wish to feed at the public trough. They truly wished to serve.

Fugen sie!

I live in the south and it pisses me off with the way these rednecks keep talking about all this crap, if they wanna go to war ill gladley be fighting whatever sides against them! DEATH TO THE REPUBLIC!!!

Originally posted by AlienChaser
reply to post by xxpigxx

 

I got out about 3 years ago. I was in the force for about 5 years.

In your experience do you think that many other feel like you? Or would they just as gladly gear up the riot suit and go hunting for some confiscation action?

I think that the actions of those enlisted to enforce oppresive government mandates such as disarmerment, under the guise of whatever security measures they might come up with, will make a big impact on any resistance developing.

This will also be addressing 27jd:

From my experience, about 90% of people involved in law enforcement are in it for the power trip. There was a few that genuinely wanted to help people. I was one of the 10%. I have no interest in kicking ass. I will if I have to, but it is not something I look forward to.

I got in wanting to help people. Instead, I was ordered make more money for the city. It was an us vs them mentallity.

Speaking of which, I would say about 75-85% of officers would have no qualms about putting on riot gear, shooting protesters, etc. All in the name of peace and protection. They will blindly follow orders. There are some who will not, but those are few and far between.

They are gung-ho, and if they could, they would (and alot of times do) start crap just to start it.

Totally unacceptable. They are in it for the power. I wish it were different. It is not.

On the other hand, all the armed forces people I have met . . . they tend to be polar opposites than the police force.

It is a weird yin-yang thing.

Throughout history, crucial intersections of critically applied radical thought and awareness converge with restless energy and suppressed anger in the destiny of nations. For some this critical ‘mass’ explodes in ‘French Revolution’ style madness, in others the energy is diverted to the philosophical expressions of a radical change in the application of reason; as is the case of Athens and its rise to preeminence as a Greek city state. The results of all historical examples of the converging influences America is currently facing at this critical intersection in its destiny, are of blood and sorrow with resulting subservience of the people, or their mass deaths; as in the Bolshevik Revolution.

While it can be argued that attempts to suppress the Bolshevik movement sped up the forgone conclusion of the outcome once the revolution had started, to have not resisted would not have saved any of the blood or lives of the innocents. This being so as any radical departure from the norm in political thought, by definition, breeds a paranoia that can only be suppressed with the shedding of the blood of those who MIGHT resist. Indeed, symptomatic of this movement and others like it, is the inability to tolerate any divergence from what its leaders consider correct and acceptable thought; from its beginnings in the café’s of Paris, divergence from the purity of communist thought was met with ridicule, marginalization and assassination.

What is unique in the current American model is the fact that those holding radical views had been able to suppress awareness of their true intentions and radical vision by usurping the terms and speech style of their opponents until the ill informed had been fooled into voting for what they thought was a change of approach to achieving the desired goals from within the apparatus of the system. The growing awareness of the formerly ill informed is that what they got is not only a radical change of the system’s apparatus, but the system it’s self. Their anger at being fooled is beginning to grow, it is further being fed by the bold out in the open corruption of those who had supported the radicals.

What complicates the problem for the now unmasked radicals is that since they took power with the unquestionable deceit of projecting a centrist image while really being bold statist, they are loosing support from within not only their party, but from the vast moderate and independents that put them in power. With each successive loss in implementing their policy objectives, their threats of force against dissenters (such as against Chrysler debt holders and California for wanting to cut 75 million from an administration union supporter) grow more numerous and open. Until at last their paranoia mixed with their statist feelings of superiority will blind them to the consequences of their actions as they use whatever opportunity they fabricate, or that presents itself, to suppress and control the American people.

This move to suppress cannot be stalled or slowed down, as it will be initiated by their own failure to implement their policies of a statist utopia. It will be a reaction of anger and indignation that will be swift and ruthless. Such force cannot be reasoned with or ignored, you can only subserviently submit or fight. There will be no middle ground.

reply to post by xxpigxx

I would say about 75-85% of officers would have no qualms about putting on riot gear, shooting protesters, etc. All in the name of peace and protection. They will blindly follow orders. There are some who will not, but those are few and far between.

I was afraid you would say that. No, I knew you would say that but I asked anyway, hoping you wouldn't.

This is the problem. Speaking strictly on the grounds of resistance or constitutional action on an oppressive government, and not speaking about police mentality/brutality or any number of other police issues.

Physical resistance would immediately be villified in the media as anarchists and the police DO outgun the populace. There may be some pretty serious small arms firepower in the hands of the people, true. There is not however, an abundance of all the other equipment, body armor, chemical sprays, military type vehicals, every single one of them is linked by radio and with an established command, the list goes on.

When they come, and I'm sure they will, it's only a question of when. (thats likely 4:00am for those of you on "the list") I just think a lot of people will choose to live in oppression rather than choose to resist it.

Don't worry about me though, I am willing to fight for freedom, through votes, petitions, protests, and rebellion.

Revolution doesn't happen until the daily caloric intake drops below 800 calories. Life in America, no matter how messed up it may seem to be, is still better than 90% of the world, so we have a long way to fall before anyone gets a wild hair up their butt to start a Revolution.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Revolution doesn't happen until the daily caloric intake drops below 800 calories. Life in America, no matter how messed up it may seem to be, is still better than 90% of the world, so we have a long way to fall before anyone gets a wild hair up their butt to start a Revolution.

Not as long as you think, friend. I wish we had longer, but everything has been set in motion.

As for starting the revolution . . . it is already started, it just has not progressed to violence . . . YET.


@ Alienchaser: Soory to disappoint you. I will stand and fight if I have to, even if I am alone.

[edit on 12/5/2009 by xxpigxx]