Graham, Lieberman pressure White House to suppress torture pictures, page 1

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Topic started on 10-5-2009 @ 09:26 PM by schrodingers dog

First the news:

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senators Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) and Joe Lieberman (ID-Connecticut) today wrote to President Obama expressing grave concern over the impending release of photographs of detainees captured in the war on terror and held by American military personnel.

The release of photographs is in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union.

“We know that many terrorists captured in Iraq have told American interrogators that one of the reasons they decided to join the violent jihadist war against America was what they saw on Al-Qaeda videos of abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib,” wrote Graham and Lieberman. “Releasing these old photographs of detainee treatment now will provide new fodder to Al-Qaeda’s propaganda and recruitment operations, undercut the progress you have made in our international relations, and endanger America’s military and diplomatic personnel throughout the world.

“The release of these old photographs of past behavior that has now been clearly prohibited can serve no public good, but will empower al-Qaeda propaganda operations, hurt our country’s image, and endanger our men and women in uniform,” wrote Graham and Lieberman.

Graham and Lieberman noted that the abusive practices at Abu Ghraib began Congressional involvement in detainee policy. Congress then passed the Detainee Treatment Act and the Military Commission Act. That legislation along with a series of executive actions, including some orders the Obama Administration has issued, are all aimed at preventing a repeat of this unacceptable behavior.

“America’s soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines have made great progress in improving detention and interrogation procedures,” said Graham and Lieberman. “We urge you in the strongest possible terms to fight the release of these old pictures of detainees in the war on terror, including pursuing all legal options to prevent the public disclosure of these pictures.” lgraham

Defense Department To Release Prisoner Abuse Photos By May 28 In Response To ACLU Lawsuit

“These photographs provide visual proof that prisoner abuse by U.S. personnel was not aberrational but widespread, reaching far beyond the walls of Abu Ghraib,” said ACLU attorney Amrit Singh. “Their disclosure is critical for helping the public understand the scope and scale of prisoner abuse as well as for holding senior officials accountable for authorizing or permitting such abuse.”

The disagreement reflects conflicting assessments of which is more dangerous and objectionable– the release of the photographs or the abusive behavior that they depict. It also turns on unresolved questions concerning the scale of prisoner abuse by U.S. personnel, and the nature of the public accounting that can or should be required. fas

emphasis mine

I find the whole thing as rather disturbingly and transparently political posturing, both on behalf of the ACLU, from those who are trying to save face for the Republican party, and for those who were part responsible of those despicable practices.

Having said that, the idea that releasing these pictures is somehow wrong is truly revolting to me and an obvious attempt at ass coverage. One one hand you have Cheney going on every talk show but Helen screaming that he wouldn't change a thing and in the background he has his lackeys trying to sweep the evidence under the rug.

Which is it ... are you owning up to your deeds or are you burying them?

You can't have both you know thought it's interesting to see them try.

And if these pics help recruit more extremists and that costs American lives, then the blood is in the hands of the perpetrators and those of either party who either overtly or tacitly encouraged them and not on those who fought to have the pictures released.

[edit on 10 May 2009 by schrodingers dog]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:27 PM by schrodingers dog

I wanted to add this response from the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press to the Graham Lieberman plea which I believe appropriately describes my own sentiments:

Never mind the accountability and oversight the public has the right and duty to provide over those acting in its name. And disregard the possibility that seeing such potentially atrocious images could prohibit repeat occurrences in the future. Instead, the senators suggest, Americans should be prevented from knowing the extent of such action so as not to "empower al-Qaeda propaganda," "hurt our country's image" and "endanger our men and women in uniform."

While certainly valid considerations -- and doubtless taken into account by the White House -- the release of this information will empower Americans to have confidence in our own government in being able to see that the redress for these acts was appropriate. Its release will remind our servicemen and women that, while their service is profoundly appreciated, it must be given lawfully and morally.

And it will underscore Obama's promise to run a transparent government and release records unless there is "foreseeable harm" for their release. There may be harm to the pride and reputation of Americans after release of these images -- just as the senators fret -- but potential embarrassment is no longer a rationale for withholding information.

emphasis mine

reply posted on 11-5-2009 @ 04:22 AM by Chevalerous

reply to post by schrodingers dog

IMHO It's should be mandatory to show those torture pictures to kids in school, so that this tragedy doesn't repeat anymore in the human history.

In my country! I remember at school, they showed us very graphic pictures of what the nazis did against other human beings and to teach us what we humans are capable of doing.

So this kind of picture should be mandatory to watch in schools all over the world, to discourage people/students of even thinking about doing the same to other people in the future

I have already watched most of the pictures they now want to suppress and they made me terribly sad and disgusted

reply posted on 11-5-2009 @ 02:44 PM by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by Chevalerous
reply to post by schrodingers dog

IMHO It's should be mandatory to show those torture pictures to kids in school, so that this tragedy doesn't repeat anymore in the human history.

Well perhaps subjecting children to this kind of imagery should be up to their parents.

Honestly I haven't seen the pictures so it is hard for me to comment ...

But that's kind of the whole point here isn't it? For us to know and acknowledge our mistakes so we can move forward.

reply posted on 11-5-2009 @ 04:46 PM by Chevalerous

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by Chevalerous
reply to post by schrodingers dog

IMHO It's should be mandatory to show those torture pictures to kids in school, so that this tragedy doesn't repeat anymore in the human history.

Well perhaps subjecting children to this kind of imagery should be up to their parents.

Honestly I haven't seen the pictures so it is hard for me to comment ...

But that's kind of the whole point here isn't it? For us to know and acknowledge our mistakes so we can move forward.

Well! I didn't mean they should show those pictures to very young kids/children - that would be sick of course! LOL!

When I said 'kids' I meant:

I remember we saw those picture I was referring to the last year of High school, and then we had discussions about it.

And this was in Europe of course!

Sorry!

reply posted on 11-5-2009 @ 04:55 PM by jam321

reply to post by Chevalerous

IMHO It's should be mandatory to show those torture pictures to kids in school, so that this tragedy doesn't repeat anymore in the human history.

I am ok with this if they show all the pictures and films they have of what happened on 9/11, especially the graphic ones.

As far as the torture problem, they need to just lay everything on the table. Who knew, when it happened, who was involved, why it happened, what information was obtained, and all the other million questions. I really feel that all this torture stuff is being used as a political move to embarrass the party in power at the time. About time they reveal that both parties were aware of what was happening and hold everybody accountable.

reply posted on 12-5-2009 @ 01:37 PM by Chevalerous

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by Chevalerous

IMHO It's should be mandatory to show those torture pictures to kids in school, so that this tragedy doesn't repeat anymore in the human history.

I am ok with this if they show all the pictures and films they have of what happened on 9/11, especially the graphic ones.

As far as the torture problem, they need to just lay everything on the table. Who knew, when it happened, who was involved, why it happened, what information was obtained, and all the other million questions. I really feel that all this torture stuff is being used as a political move to embarrass the party in power at the time. About time they reveal that both parties were aware of what was happening and hold everybody accountable.

Yeah I understand what you mean my friend and I can agree somewhat but!... the 9/11 angle doesn't work with many of those innocent Iraqi victims in Abu Ghraib or those innocent Iraqis who were sent to be tortured at Gitmo & elsewhere by the CIA.

Iraq was never a part of the 9/11 conspiracy against the American people.

And we can't of course forget! - the whole war was based on lies and UN Kofi Annan and Hans Blix said: the war is illegal according International law & treaties

You should check this video out! - in the 'Ghosts of Abu Ghraib' by HBO you can find some of the pictures they now want to suppress from the American public:

Google Video Link

Edit: I edited out the rest of what I had written, because it was so damn depressive to read it!

[edit on 12-5-2009 by Chevalerous]

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