Bad News For Atheists

reply to post by Jimbowsk


No, a firm foundation built on the only thing, that at the end of this very brief stint on earth, will have mattered. If your ego is so important to you that you can't put it aside long enough to accept you have a Creator, Almighty God, then I feel sorry for you. Seriously sorry for you.

None of us has the assurance that the sun will rise ever again, but we have the assurance that God is our Creator and He sent His only Son to be our Savior, and that all He asks is we believe and call on Him.

That is the only truth that is gauranteed.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by Jimbowsk

 

No, a firm foundation built on the only thing, that at the end of this very brief stint on earth, will have mattered. If your ego is so important to you that you can't put it aside long enough to accept you have a Creator, Almighty God, then I feel sorry for you. Seriously sorry for you.

None of us has the assurance that the sun will rise ever again, but we have the assurance that God is our Creator and He sent His only Son to be our Savior, and that all He asks is we believe and call on Him.

That is the only truth that is gauranteed.

Wow. You gotta love the hypocrisy of someone telling others that their belief is the only truth, then accusing those some people of arrogance for having their own set of beliefs.

Pretty awesome, I must say.

Originally posted by Bombeni
reply to post by Jimbowsk

 

No, a firm foundation built on the only thing, that at the end of this very brief stint on earth, will have mattered. If your ego is so important to you that you can't put it aside long enough to accept you have a Creator, Almighty God, then I feel sorry for you. Seriously sorry for you.

None of us has the assurance that the sun will rise ever again, but we have the assurance that God is our Creator and He sent His only Son to be our Savior, and that all He asks is we believe and call on Him.

That is the only truth that is gauranteed.

Guaranteed?!? There's not even an iota of evidence that anything remotely like that is guaranteed other than a personal belief on unfounded writings! And I don't require a saviour, I make my own way in this world and don't deny my mortality.

But please, seeing as you're in the know of the 'truth' so much, please point your god in my direction, I'd love to have a chat with him.

And if there is a god, I have to say he seems certainly far from 'almighty'! Surely after this length of time he/she should show their face so we could all know the apparent 'truth'.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by Jimbowsk]

Originally posted by wiredamerican
Well, my children are aged 7 and 3, and I always tell them that religion is brainwash and I beg them to make up their own mind about things and not succumb to persuasion of people addicted to power. I hope whatever they choose to accept as their purpose to be the right one, whatever they finally accept.

I have a question for you...

Do you have any faith or belief in anything or do you see life as just a biological event that starts and ends completely?

I hope whatever they choose to accept as their purpose to be the right one, whatever they finally accept.

I find this an interesting statement after you impose your impressions that all religions are brainwashing on your young children.



[edit on 12-5-2009 by Xtrozero]

See, the brainwashing claim utterly fails when one is presented with the evidence, of which this forum abounds, of those who have set aside faith and engaged in their life of atheism. However, this doesn't stop atheists zealously reciting their credo that religious instruction of children is brainwashing.

The research gawdzilla and others dismiss shows not only that unaffiliated upbringing of children doesn't keep those children away from religion as they grow up it also shows that the affiliated upbringing of children doesn't keep those children IN religion.

One of the pillars of atheism crumbles, but watch the zeal with which they'll try to hold up its fragments. And they say Christians are irrational and lacking evidence?

@snisha: don't trouble yourself too much about Gawdzilla failing to give any evidence to support his claim that the Pew Foundation is a questionable organisation, I already asked him on the first page. Such zealots as him don't rely on evidence but on their own insights and revelations.

Like I said before I wish his like would clear out of schools with the anti-evolutionists and fight it out among themseles in a field somewhere and leave the rest of us to get on with it.

reply to post by Jimbowsk


Really, you'd like to have a chat with Him? That's encouraging. You have to start somewhere. Of course I know you're being sarcastic, but if you could be serious about it for a time, pray to God that He reveal Himself and if you are sincere He will; He has revealed Himself to me and millions of others. I would tell here exactly how He revealed Himself on numerous occasions but I'm not about to put up the most important and beautiful experiences of my life to be trampled on and ridiculed. Besides you might look for the very same things to happen, but God may have a totally different plan for you, and He does have a plan for you if you just invite Him in.

Originally posted by Jimbowsk

Originally posted by Bombeni

I taught my children the **truth, what they do with it as adults is their right, but at least I know they have a firm foundation, not built on sand.

P.S. **The "truth" having nothing to do with which church you go to or how often or even if you attend. Nothing wrong with going to church though, there are some good ones out there if you look.

[edit on 12-5-2009 by Bombeni]

A firm foundation based on what though, mythology, folklore, writings from a time when so little was understood about the world? I don't believe children should have religious rights taught to them at all with them being so impressionable from the parents, the people they trust the most in the whole world.

Just because a person isn't religious doesn't mean they can't have a strong moral attitude, and I actually think that's quite offensive and narrow-minded to suggest so. Basically suggesting someone's bound to be a bad person because they don't worship something that can't be seen/heard/tested/proved in any way.

I would like to say that you and others have it all wrong in your assumption that Christians think they are better people than you and other non-believers. If anything, we recognize that we have faults which are unacceptable to God, and we know we will never be able to be worthy of spending eternity with Him. But God, our Father, fanagled a way around the punishment we all deserve (as most parents would), and sent a Savior who was willing to stand up and say "I'll take the punishment for everyone, just let the others off the hook".

Originally posted by Bombeni

I would like to say that you and others have it all wrong in your assumption that Christians think they are better people than you and other non-believers. If anything, we recognize that we have faults which are unacceptable to God, and we know we will never be able to be worthy of spending eternity with Him. But God, our Father, fanagled a way around the punishment we all deserve (as most parents would), and sent a Savior who was willing to stand up and say "I'll take the punishment for everyone, just let the others off the hook".

No no no, not at all, I don't think Christians think they are better than non-believers at all, the moral aspect is obviously a good thing, I just find it near impossible to get on board with something there's not a shred of evidence for other than scriptures that were written a long long time ago, and since then there's basically been nothing. I mean come on, it wasn't THAT long ago that it was believed the earth was flat!

Surely in 2000 years there should've been a bit more of an effort made to maintain the world we live in rather than god just letting all his 'children' mess it up the way we are. He seemed very busy all that time ago, is he just taking a 2000 year holiday before his next shift?

I don't mean to rub anyone up the wrong way, everyone's entitled to their own beliefs but when people become fixed on the 'truth' there is an almighty and are quick to set people straight on the fact with nothing to back them up in the slightest, it just comes across as nothing more than mythology.

reply to post by Supercertari


"don't trouble yourself too much about Gawdzilla failing to give any evidence to support his claim that the Pew Foundation is a questionable organisation, I already asked him on the first page. Such zealots as him don't rely on evidence but on their own insights and revelations."

Read their mission statement. Better yet, have someone read it to you and explain the parts you don't seem to get. You have to do some digging to find the dirt, but that's nothing new. If you fail, let me know and I'll leave a trail of bread crumbs for you.

Originally posted by Jimbowsk

Originally posted by Bombeni

I would like to say that you and others have it all wrong in your assumption that Christians think they are better people than you and other non-believers. If anything, we recognize that we have faults which are unacceptable to God, and we know we will never be able to be worthy of spending eternity with Him. But God, our Father, fanagled a way around the punishment we all deserve (as most parents would), and sent a Savior who was willing to stand up and say "I'll take the punishment for everyone, just let the others off the hook".

No no no, not at all, I don't think Christians think they are better than non-believers at all, the moral aspect is obviously a good thing, I just find it near impossible to get on board with something there's not a shred of evidence for other than scriptures that were written a long long time ago, and since then there's basically been nothing. I mean come on, it wasn't THAT long ago that it was believed the earth was flat!

Surely in 2000 years there should've been a bit more of an effort made to maintain the world we live in rather than god just letting all his 'children' mess it up the way we are. He seemed very busy all that time ago, is he just taking a 2000 year holiday before his next shift?

I don't mean to rub anyone up the wrong way, everyone's entitled to their own beliefs but when people become fixed on the 'truth' there is an almighty and are quick to set people straight on the fact with nothing to back them up in the slightest, it just comes across as nothing more than mythology.

Well I guess I misunderstood, I thought you said I had suggested that non-believers don't have a good set of values and morals.

In this earthly life, because Satan walks the earth along with us, we are plaqued with temptations and we all do things we regret. God is so Holy, that even our thought of doing wrong is unnacceptable to Him. But He offered a way for us to triumph over evil and find reconcilation with Him. I know you don't believe that, and it doesn't make me angry that you don't, or make me think I am better than you. It doesn't rub me the wrong way as you said; The only problem I have are people here who use derogatory names, there is no point in that and I don't communicate with the people that do.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Now don't be shy Gawdzilla, implying I'm stupid while refusing to justify your own presumptions fools no-one. Let's hear your devestating and revealing critique of their mission statement. As has been pointed out it's a bit rich asking us to "believe" you based on no evidence.

I can understand you being a bit tetchy, reading about the number of Catholics who switch affiliation annoyed me a bit and, as we've seen, the retention level for the unaffiliated is even worse.

But don't let tetchiness make you taciturn.

reply to post by Supercertari


Afraid to look for yourself? I can understand that. Religious people do tend to be sub par on the questioning scale.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


Who said atheists have no sense of humour?

Still can't dish the goods eh? We'll just have to presume you're talking nonsense.

Originally posted by Supercertari
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

Who said atheists have no sense of humour?

Still can't dish the goods eh? We'll just have to presume you're talking nonsense.

[Pats SuperC on the head.] That's right. No can do. Of course not. And if I did, you wouldn't believe it, so I'm not going to bother. If you continue to believe the Pew pukes are areligious, that's find. It's your foot in the bucket, not mine.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


You have a lot of faith Gawdzilla: faith that I'm stupid, unquestioning and won't believe your insights anyway. Well here, let me disabuse me of that fear, show us more than your current whispers that Pew's analysis are deliberately skewed and let us all consider the evidence. If it holds any water we'll all just loose interest and move on.

Come on Gawdzilla, show the firmness of your position, demonstrate to us you mean what you say, show us the evidence - or just litter another thread with your foundless accusations. Are you afraid to? Beginning to think that's the only reason - you made a mistake, don't want to admit it.

reply to post by Supercertari


I know what I'm talking about. I've done the research. If you do it, you'll find the same thing I did. I posted my findings over at RDF in August. So I'm good to go. You play catch up.

If you want schooled, I charge $5,000 US per credit hour, with fifteen hours due in advance. I take PayPal.

The only reason I'm here is to have informative and rational discussions. I also defend my belief system as everyone else defends theirs. I'm not claiming to have all the answers just presenting some ideas.

Gawdzilla is proving his points and I'm not arguing that he does it in a coherent manner.

In fact he has visible proof and that is something that stands for them. I have invisible and visible proof (though rejected by some because they aren't updated on the conclusive findings) and that's fine with me.

I see little more than biting and snapping back and forth between atheist and believer in the threads about science and religion. There are valid points on both sides along with not so valid theories/beliefs. I understand that there is alot to disagree on, but I hardly think concentration on disagreement will win someone over to your point of view. Perhaps if we begin to discuss the positive similarities between atheist and believer(or science and religion) we may become more receptive to a broader understanding of things. I feel the basic begining should be that both are ultimately searching for truth. Also both should claim they dont have all the answers. And both could hopefully agree that anything is possible. I am very new to both ATS and computers. If you know of a thread or place where these things are discused, I will humbly follow your pointed finger.

Echoing many previous comments.

This, in a funny way, is good news for atheists and/or agnostics.

While I disagree there is a god, I have nothing against someone who makes their own choice about it. If someone grows up in a godless house, and finds god, good luck to them.

Of all the religious people around, the ones I (for want of a better word) respect most are born-agains.

Anyone who can consider the facts as personally discovered, and come to a conclusion, even if I think its wrong, has at least put some thought into it, as opposed to finding god through ozmosis.

reply to post by Tyler 720


Hi Tyler720, well you have some good points, and for the most part I think the believers and non-believers here have learned how to hammer things out pretty well without being downright rude to one another. Things do heat up once in awhile though .

Feel free to jump in especially on the religious threads if you are interested in them because they are few and far between here. They run hot and cold, this one seems to be on the chill for now.