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US accused of using 'illegal' white phosphorus in chemical attack that killed Afghan civilians

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posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:55 AM
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Excuse me, but the Taliban are civilians. Do people really think that by picking up a gun to defend your home you have enlisted in an army?




posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by earthman4
Excuse me, but the Taliban are civilians. Do people really think that by picking up a gun to defend your home you have enlisted in an army?


The Taliban are not civilians. That is one of the LAMEST excuses I have read on ATS



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by xxpigxx
 


Please explain how to tell the difference. They wear no uniform and are not organized. What makes a civilian Taliban, an oath?



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by xxpigxx

Originally posted by earthman4
Excuse me, but the Taliban are civilians. Do people really think that by picking up a gun to defend your home you have enlisted in an army?


The Taliban are not civilians. That is one of the LAMEST excuses I have read on ATS


If they aren't drawing a government paycheck they are civilians.

The Free Militias in the U.S. are civilians.

Mormons...civilians

Christians...civilians

U.S. Army...not civilians

Jews...civilians

Catholics...civilians

CIA...not civilians

Episcapalians...civilians

Lutherans...civilians

FBI...not civilians

Protestants...civilians

Seventh Day Adventists...civilians

President of the United States...not civilians

Hope that clears that up.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by xxpigxx

Originally posted by earthman4
Excuse me, but the Taliban are civilians. Do people really think that by picking up a gun to defend your home you have enlisted in an army?


The Taliban are not civilians. That is one of the LAMEST excuses I have read on ATS


If they aren't drawing a government paycheck they are civilians.

The Free Militias in the U.S. are civilians.

Mormons...civilians

Christians...civilians

U.S. Army...not civilians

Jews...civilians

Catholics...civilians

CIA...not civilians

Episcapalians...civilians

Lutherans...civilians

FBI...not civilians

Protestants...civilians

Seventh Day Adventists...civilians

President of the United States...not civilians

Hope that clears that up.


Interesting,so you take one penny from a group and you are one of them. What about volunteer Taliban. I know there are a few. This makes them civilians? My point is that there really is no clear definition of what constitutes a civilian. One Taliban guy hands out money to a village and that makes them all Taliban?



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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I'm glad some people onthis hread are seeing sense and not just refraining themselves to 'OMG somebody blew up the twin towers - we must kill everyone'...

It just saddens me that some people have little or no value for human life.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by earthman4
 




Interesting,so you take one penny from a group and you are one of them. What about volunteer Taliban. I know there are a few. This makes them civilians? My point is that there really is no clear definition of what constitutes a civilian. One Taliban guy hands out money to a village and that makes them all Taliban?


That Taliban is a Political Party that mixes religion with politics, in a too similiar way as the Neo-Conservative Republicans.

If you are a Neo-Conservative Republican that holds no political office or military appointment or law enforcement position you are a civilian.

If you do hold a political office, military appointment of law enforcement position then you aren't a civilian Neo-Conservative Republican.

Very simple



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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We need to demonize these radical elements in Afghanistan so we can justify the use of WP.

Will this breaking news do it?

www.usatoday.com...


CHARIKAR, Afghanistan (AP) — Doctors are investigating whether dozens of girls were poisoned at a high school in northern Afghanistan on Monday after 61 girls went to the hospital because of sudden illness, officials said.
Dr. Khalil Farhagga said the 61 students and one teacher from a school in Parwan — one province north of Kabul— complained of irritability, weeping and confusion. Several girls also passed out.

The mass hospitalization comes about two weeks after a similar incident in Parwan, where dozens of girls were hospitalized in late April after being sickened by what Afghan officials said were strong fumes or a possible poison gas cloud.

Conservative Afghans oppose education for girls, who were not allowed to attend school under the 1996-2001 Taliban regime.


And in case you missed it there is an update a page back in this thread where the US military again deny the use of WP in Afghanistan and in fact now say they can prove that the Taliban are using it.

They report, you decide.




posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
I'm glad some people onthis hread are seeing sense and not just refraining themselves to 'OMG somebody blew up the twin towers - we must kill everyone'...

It just saddens me that some people have little or no value for human life.


It would seem to appear that our common sense was stored in one of those buildings and our constitution in the other.

The sure both seem to have dissapeared in a puff of smoke somewhere.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Funny joke, but really, do you shoot this guy or help him?




posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by earthman4
 


Can't view at work . . . it is blocked


But in response to the other posters . . . once a weapon is picked up against our citizens, you are an enemy of the state.

And there are many people here crying about the cost of human life.

That is war . . . get over it. That was exactly my point. Let the soldiers do their job and quit crying over something that is constant unavoidable side effect of war.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by earthman4
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Funny joke, but really, do you shoot this guy or help him?




That guy needs a hand clearly. He doesn't understand what anyone needs those sattelite dishes for. His people have lived the same close to nature life for as far back as he can remember.

I don't think he understands why it is marring the natural beauty of his land. I don't think he has any use for what it does. I don't think any of his friends neighbors or relatives understand what it does.

I think he knows it wasn't made in Afghanistan. I think he knows it wasn't installed by anyone from Afghanistan, I think he even knows that most of the people who do have a use for it aren't from Afghanistan.

I think the guy needs help, no two ifs and buts about that.

I had that same look when the old fashion icecream parlor that made their own delicious ice cream and home made baked meat sandwiches went out of business because all the tourists flocked to the Haagen Daz put in next door. Haagen Daz didn't have better Ice Cream, they didn't even have sandwiches, let alone sandwiches that the person who made them cooked the Ham and Roast Beef and Turkey every night at home just like she would for her own family and brought it in at the crack of dawn just like her family had been for a 100 years.

People didn't seem to care about the high cherry wood backed booths with Stan loves Suzie surrounded in heart that was lovingly carved decades before by two love birds in love. They didn't care about the pictures on the wall showing a 100 years of real history of their town. They didn't care that the service was friendly and the same people worked their year after year and knew your name because they would remember it if you cared to give it, or that those people who gave that friendly service could afford to work there year after year because they weren't being paid a minimum wage per policy of some far away corporate Master but a living wage, because their employers lived most of their lives with them, working along side them the same day, often rolling up their sleaves to help them get their job done when that's what good service called for. No one standing in line at Haagen Daaz likely knew all those things, what they were missing or why, just that the sign said Haagendaz instead of Browns.

Yes I had that same look on my face the day they closed down, hungry for a home baked ham sandwich that in a town of millions of people I would never find again unless I wanted to bake it myself. I sure was sad to think I would never sit in those high back cherry booths again, just like the ones in the little town I grew up, that made me feel as much there as the great big city I had adopted.

I didn't have a gun but I imagine if I did I might have shot a couple of the people stretched around the block to get in to the Haagen Daaz Store on Hollywood Boulevard.

It wasn't just my taste buds and stomach under attack but a culture rich in tradition and meaning to me. I didn't see any of those things evident in the Haagen Daaz store, just mindless rushed tourists recognizing a familiar feeding troth.

I know that look!



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by earthman4
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Funny joke, but really, do you shoot this guy or help him?




That guy needs a hand clearly. He doesn't understand what anyone needs those sattelite dishes for. His people have lived the same close to nature life for as far back as he can remember.

I don't think he understands why it is marring the natural beauty of his land. I don't think he has any use for what it does. I don't think any of his friends neighbors or relatives understand what it does.

I think he knows it wasn't made in Afghanistan. I think he knows it wasn't installed by anyone from Afghanistan, I think he even knows that most of the people who do have a use for it aren't from Afghanistan.

I think the guy needs help, no two ifs and buts about that.

I had that same look when the old fashion icecream parlor that made their own delicious ice cream and home made baked meat sandwiches went out of business because all the tourists flocked to the Haagen Daz put in next door. Haagen Daz didn't have better Ice Cream, they didn't even have sandwiches, let alone sandwiches that the person who made them cooked the Ham and Roast Beef and Turkey every night at home just like she would for her own family and brought it in at the crack of dawn just like her family had been for a 100 years.

People didn't seem to care about the high cherry wood backed booths with Stan loves Suzie surrounded in heart that was lovingly carved decades before by two love birds in love. They didn't care about the pictures on the wall showing a 100 years of real history of their town. They didn't care that the service was friendly and the same people worked their year after year and knew your name because they would remember it if you cared to give it, or that those people who gave that friendly service could afford to work there year after year because they weren't being paid a minimum wage per policy of some far away corporate Master but a living wage, because their employers lived most of their lives with them, working along side them the same day, often rolling up their sleaves to help them get their job done when that's what good service called for. No one standing in line at Haagen Daaz likely knew all those things, what they were missing or why, just that the sign said Haagendaz instead of Browns.

Yes I had that same look on my face the day they closed down, hungry for a home baked ham sandwich that in a town of millions of people I would never find again unless I wanted to bake it myself. I sure was sad to think I would never sit in those high back cherry booths again, just like the ones in the little town I grew up, that made me feel as much there as the great big city I had adopted.

I didn't have a gun but I imagine if I did I might have shot a couple of the people stretched around the block to get in to the Haagen Daaz Store on Hollywood Boulevard.

It wasn't just my taste buds and stomach under attack but a culture rich in tradition and meaning to me. I didn't see any of those things evident in the Haagen Daaz store, just mindless rushed tourists recognizing a familiar feeding troth.

I know that look!


He looks like a nice guy but he just captured the Kabul Airport and that equipment. I bet he is a nice guy. I bet he would make a great American soldier, but he is on the other side. It is so hard to know who fights for good these days. We try and villify good people. We call civilians soldiers and soldiers civilians, the line has dissapeared with the towers.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by xxpigxx
reply to post by earthman4
 


But in response to the other posters . . . once a weapon is picked up against our citizens, you are an enemy of the state.

And there are many people here crying about the cost of human life.

That is war . . . get over it. That was exactly my point. Let the soldiers do their job and quit crying over something that is constant unavoidable side effect of war.


The 'this is a war get over it' comment sickens me. Perhaps some day you will realise why when a war hits your country if you're ever unlucky enough to have your sister, brother, father and mother blown to smithereens by those noble soldiers just for being in their own homes and doing nothing. But hey, they're expendable aren't they? This is war and it's unavoidable. Do you think that will comfort you when you're crying at their funeral? I don't think it will at all.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:35 AM
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Something is up, CNN cable television news reporting that the Commander in Afghanistan is stepping down.

It will be interesting to see how this develops.

Does the President read ATS?




posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by Nammu
 


You know nothing about me. How dare you make assumptions. You do not know my life, my family, and the troubles, if any, we have went through.

But that is neither here nor there . . . your reply was just a thinly veiled attempt to get pity.

Does not work here.

Next you will throw the kids into the bunch. That always works on the bleeding hearts.

There is an old saying: "Kill em all, let God sort em out"



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by earthman4
 





He looks like a nice guy but he just captured the Kabul Airport and that equipment. I bet he is a nice guy. I bet he would make a great American soldier, but he is on the other side. It is so hard to know who fights for good these days. We try and villify good people. We call civilians soldiers and soldiers civilians, the line has dissapeared with the towers.


I don't blame him, I am sure they were all tourists standing in line at Haagen Daaz! I bet only a few of them walked or drove from their home towns. Rotten airports.

I have no use for airports anymore my friend. You see I can't fly any more. I used to be a travel agent once upon the time and loved to go places.

That was back in the day though that my government did not want me to live in constant worry and fear. They didn't need me to get their hours ahead of time to corall me in long lines and poke and prod and strip me of my dignity or view me with distrust and suspicscion.

I could get there 15 minutes before the flight if need be and run to the gate with out having M-16's trained on me every step of the way. I wonder was it the Twin Towers or OJ maybe killing Nicole?

I have this thing called dignity and pride, and this silly love for freedom and self respect. I would like to fly and I hope I can again one day, but I would rather die a cruel horrible death than stand in those lines, and be treated with that type of cruel disregard, minimized to just a piece of human chattel, that has to pass some stamp of approval government imposed testing process before I can spend my money for a service that has become no service at all, but a glaring reminder of the corruptness of a government and a way of life that used to mean something to people that no longer means anything at all.

My poor children don't remember what it was like. Born without that memory of what it was like before insanely corrupt politicians and a government beuracracy gone mad intent on being all invasive, all seeing, all controlling fooled harried self important and rushed people focused on some pitiful slight gain of commerce or possession to just forget the most precious thing of all, that they imagined they had neither the time or the need to retain, in their quest for their next purchase, paycheck, profit or meal...their very own human dignity.

Franly I think we need to capture the airports too. Put them back the way they were, stop living in fear, stop paying to be slaves, and stop fighting wars of agression and taking sides in international politics between different nations, which is what brought all this nonsense on or set the pretext for it.

I think that guy in that picture is a good man, I think we are all good people, I think we just struggle to much in our rush to do good, we forget what good really is.

The home of the free and the brave, has become the home of the cowered and fearful...

Wow, you would have thought someone would have cared!

My bad.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Something is up, CNN cable television news reporting that the Commander in Afghanistan is stepping down.

It will be interesting to see how this develops.

Does the President read ATS?


And here is the report just made available on the website:

Top U.S. commander in Afghanistan to be replaced


www.cnn.com...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Defense Secretary Robert Gates is expected to announce Monday afternoon that he is replacing Gen. David McKiernan as the commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, to be replaced by Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, defense officials tell CNN.

Gates is planning to make the announcement at a Pentagon news conference.


That is all there is at the moment.

Maybe there will be positive changes after all?

Stay tuned!



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:30 PM
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Organisations like the Taleban, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbolla, know that they cannot win wars militarily because they are out-gunned and out-numbered.

They've learned that the best path to victory is to prolong the conflict as long as possible using low-level insurgency and to make political capital out of every civilian death. This gives them sympathy in Islamic countries and causes their enemies to lose the will to fight. I believe the expression is death by a thousand cuts.

It seems to have worked in Iraq as we are now in the process of pulling out while the suicide bombings continue. It will doubtlessly happen in Afghanistan as well.

I'm sure it will please the liberal educated classes in the US and Europe, many of whom have expressed their opinions on this board, but in the long run it is a disgusting betrayal of the people of those countries and will make the world a less stable place for future generations.

(edited for spelling)

[edit on 11-5-2009 by mattpryor]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Ptotoplasmic, you need to come up and join us in the present, and cut the academic, pseudo-intelligentsia crap.

Whether we should have or shouldn't have is a done deal. We're in. It's already started. Move on.

Maybe you'd like to take an opportunity here to discuss the decision of Henry V's decision to visit France. That's a done deal too, but your propensity to argue the past is apparently one of your specialties. Enlighten us.

So, yes, we are in fact now, talking about a war. That's what we're now engaged in. An active war.

See how this works?

I always elected to forego my R&R after I found out the Nungs were getting $100 a head, and they would give me $50 a head if I'd come along and bring a radio. When I got home, I paid cash for my car, and paid cash for my home.

R&R is overrated, and it doesn't put any money in your pocket. Besides, I was able to get a bounty for doing the same, exact thing I was doing on my regular Army pay.

I suppose that makes me a Capitalist!

And business was good!

Your Rambo analogy is rather pisspoor. The men I fought alongside of would have kicked Rambo's ass and given the boy a haircut. Hollywood can not begin to convey the fullness and magnificence of the men we put into the field.

I've been carrying a weapon CC for many years. So much for your pansy-based assumptions on men who served in combat and carry weapons. It's all habit now.

I'll tell you a secret to diminish the fears that you suggested you had:

The capacity for great violence is not to be equated with a preference for great violence.

I just found out the hard way how bad it can get, and how bad I could get. You never really know until you actually turn the dogs loose.

I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about . . .



[edit on 11-5-2009 by dooper]

[edit on 11-5-2009 by dooper]



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