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US accused of using 'illegal' white phosphorus in chemical attack that killed Afghan civilians

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posted on May, 10 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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I am not one to usually go to Nostradamus for anything but the Bush/Obama warmongering gives a certain new pitch to Nostradamus' MABUS.

The saddest part is that U.S. Americans really have little idea about the horrible and evil things their Armed Forces and Intelligence agencies have done especially over the last thirty to fifty years. Of course, they want to believe that their nation is perfect, but there comes a time for a nation where childhood's end arrives at the same moment a nation starts killing children with white phosph. and other perfectly evil confections of war.

All of this will come home to the USA: but will the responsible parties "take the heat" for it? No, more innocents will perish in the grand blood-letting that so entertains the highest levels of the power elites on planet Terra.

Clearly, Obama will go down in history far worse than Bush because so many pinned so much hope on him, but it is the same fascist programme that began in earnest under Nixon and about which President Eisenhower warned the USA.




posted on May, 10 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


drwizardaa, for heaven's sake, take a basic reading course. I said the people who HARBORED . . .

There's a subject, a verb, adverbs, pronouns, objective . . . never mind. I'm pretty sure they won't teach to correct selective, willful ignorance.

This eight-year old girl, you're telling me that out of all the folks that were engaged, of all the folks who were killed, that she was somehow the only one with WP burns? How stupid and gullible can we be?

I've done some cooking with WP, and it goes EVERYWHERE! Even the small WP grenade has an impact saturation - SATURATION of some 15-19 meters, depending on wind in diameter. 45 foot diameter. Everything!

Even better is the WP bomb. It has a much greater burst saturation diameter than a little grenade, and at 5000 degrees Farenheit, it burns EVERYTHING!

So supposedly, according to you, military ordinance professionals you are, this military WP air-dropped bomb goes off, and of all the casualties in the area, she's the ONLY ONE with any indication of odd burns?

Could it be . . . could it be . . . that maybe one of the Taliban had a WP grenade, somehow the cannister was cracked open, possibly by accident, possibly by impact, possibly by shrapnel, or even by design, and she may have thusly been the only one exposed?

Because nothing else seems to make any damned sense!

And Walks, you know I didn't say that. I merely pointed out two historical facts. That's how it's done if you want peace for generations over there.

Proven.

Twice.

And I said nothing about we should do it.



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by dooper

And Walks, you know I didn't say that. I merely pointed out two historical facts. That's how it's done if you want peace for generations over there.

Proven.

Twice.

And I said nothing about we should do it.


My reading comprehension must be badly flawed, or its late, I've been doing too much, or maybe I am just plain stupid, but you did say...


Originally posted by dooper

Twice, this area now called Afghanistan has been conquered.

The first time by Alexander. He struggled against these same folks for years until he finally depopulated vast regions. But he had his peace.

Ghenghis Khan also conquered this area, and he too, was eventually compelled to depopulate vast regions.

I really don't care what we have to do, but we need to either do the same thing, or get out, as this half-assed approach is getting us nowhere.


Oh I get it now saying "either" and "or" makes everything okay.



[edit on 10-5-2009 by Walkswithfish]



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 





Proto, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Dooper my friend I truly believe you don’t.


You suggest that we are attacking folks who couldn't attack a Wal-Mart over here.

When were you born?



Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, my father was a P.H.D. in Chemistry who went to the University of Pittsburgh interrupted his education to volunteer to become a Navy Frogman during World War II and served in the Pacific and his father retired a Rear Admiral in the English Navy before immigrating to America. My mother held a Masters in Education whose Father had a P.H.D. in Metallurgy both educated at Carnegie Melon. Her ancestry was English, Irish and Polish, and my father’s was 100% English. English enough for a Castle on the Themes and a famed Regatta still raced today under the Family Name…how about you buddy? Where are you from?




These same people harbored the folks who dropped our towers, blew up our embassies, and attacked our ships.

Did all this happen before you were born?



Well no as a matter of fact I watched every second of it unfold on TV from the very first report of a tragic plane accident in New York City when at just a few minutes after 9:00 AM Eastern Standard Time CNN broke into it’s normal American Morning Programming with Paula Zhan to say they were getting sketchy reports that a commercial airliner may have accidently crashed into the World Trade Centers. I stayed glued to the TV and didn’t go into work until almost 3:00 PM that afternoon and saw the second plane hit as it did and both of the towers come crashing down, news of the explosion and the Pentagon, the President in Florida visiting a class of school children, and then later news and shots of the plane that crashed into the ground in a field in Shanks Field PA that as a child I had rode past on the way to Somerset many times.

What did happen before I was born was a little thing called the Constitution of the United States of America dooper, I am sure you have heard of it? In it all people are innocent until proven guilty by a Court of Law in a proceeding where they have a right to trial by Judge or a Jury of American Citizens to decide their guilt and fate…

That’s the thing I have missed my friend. I haven’t seen a trial, I haven’t heard a verdict through our Constitutional process and I will condemn no man, nation or people that stand accused who have not been given that privilege which in not giving them that privilege deny me my Constitutional right to know the truth.

In the rolling hills of Pennsylvania where I am from dooper the Constitution was something people were taught to believe in and fight and die for.

We were not attacked by a nation that day Dooper but by a criminal conspiracy and a crime was committed against the American people and frankly my friend which of the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of now dead Afghanis are you so sure harbored those 19 Saudi Citizens who according to my Constitution are only alleged to have committed that crime, because according to my Constitution they all are innocent until proven guilty in an American Court of Law in a free and open proceeding.




Wow. Doesn't seem all that long ago to me, but it sure as hell indicates some short memories over here.


They wrote the Constitution in 1782 Dooper. Yes I would agree some very short memories indeed. I have no idea while people no longer value its principals or decry and defy their government when they fail to uphold it. Do you dooper?




But you're right about one thing.

We'll lose this thing.

Because we can't remember diddly squat.



Dooper my friend we can’t win this thing because we can’t remember our too long abandoned now Constitution, our own Democratic principals of honesty and fair play and justice and above all and even more so something called Karma, and if you think for a second the pitiful state of the world and our economy is not the Karmic reaction to such a gross violation and dereliction of our own Constitutional Principals and Best Traditions I respectfully suggest you are sadly mistaken.

I know you are a warrior my friend, but there are things to fight for, and things to fight against, and in my humble opinion what you are fighting for is fighting against something we have long held near and dear but no more.

If my government could spend all that money and all those lives they sure as heck could have given me and every other American the benefit of the entire truth by doing it the Constitutional way in such a situation which was not an act of war by a nation upon us but a criminal conspiracy that in my opinion has not been even properly investigated let alone prosecuted and I think we are attacking the wrong people for the wrong reason my friend and the biggest casualty of all has been our Constitutional way of life and the respect and peace of mind that comes with following it.

That’s where I am from my friend and my memory serves me better than most!



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by Walkswithfish
 

Since we both instinctively and intellectually know that we're not going to depopulate large portions of the country, which does that leave?

It's like a rhetorical question.

That doesn't require an answer.

Or postulation.

Or assumption.



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Walkswithfish
 

Since we both instinctively and intellectually know that we're not going to depopulate large portions of the country, which does that leave?


Your post and a clear contradiction of what you said.




posted on May, 10 2009 @ 11:41 PM
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White Phosphorus is evil stuff.
No country should be allowed to use that stuff.
Shame on America.



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 11:42 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 11:54 PM
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Gee. So many points.

Quickly, before I forget. This Constitution you speak of. What country is it by, and for?

Tell you what. Being royalty or whatever in part, you should likely be given a special dispensation.

Take your Constititution to Saudi Arabia, purchase a piece of land, and build yourself a Christian Church. Be sure and tell them that your Constitution guarantees you freedom of religion.

Oh.

That's right.

It only applies to citizens, here, in the territorial United States.

And it doesn't apply to the military overseas. Who have their own military laws and regulations.

And it doesn't apply in war.

So maybe you want to read it for a change, rather than provide me with your illustrious family history. It's something to be proud of, to be sure, but has nothing to do with Constitutional Law, who it applies to, when it applies, and how it applies.

And White Phosphorous is a wonderful thing to a combat soldier. I used it to clean out bunkers and tunnels. It is great! But you can't go right in after you use it.

You see, it just burned up all the oxygen inside, and what wasn't cooked, was asphyxiated.

Much better than having to stick your head in first, and having it blown off.

But from the sound of a few posters here, they would rather get their brains blown out.

Whatever.

Your brains.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 



Guys, come on. The Taliban has been rounding up civilians to use as human shields. If it works, fine, if it doesn't, then that's fine too as they get to use the casualties as propaganda


While I dont doubt it is happening, I am yet to actually see any proof of this.
The only evidence we have of this practice is when its stated by the US, when many civilians are killed by a bombing run..

But like I said, im sure it happens, but you, like me are just taking the USA's word for it.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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So many friggin wusses in here . . . no wonder we have not won a war in ages


Let's talk to them


Let's follow international law, so we can get respect


Let's make business deals


NO! To win a battle, you have to kill the want to fight! You have to bust their morale. If carpet bombing is what it takes DO IT! When innocent's are killed, so be it. It is collateral damage. It is not nice, and it is not pretty. But the fact is, in every war ever, and every war to come, THERE WILL BE CIVILIAN DEATHS. If the enemy cries about it . . . tough titty said the kitty . . . shouldn't have started it. If a nation that has our enemies in it cries about it . . . either get our enemy out yourselves, or we will.

Geez . . . I wish America, her leaders, and her troops leaders still had a WW2 mindset. We need a Patton.

America has become wussified.


[edit on 11/5/2009 by xxpigxx]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:21 AM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 

Agit, you're saying - not our politicians - not our generals - but our soldiers are lying?

I recall watching the invasion of Iraq, and the insurgents were herding civilians in front of them, and shooting from behind them. This was caught on tape!

But suddenly, our grunts - our soldiers - are just lying for the hell of it?

Screw you.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:36 AM
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I think its time America took its ball and went home. Screw the rest of the world who condemns us when ever they can yet begs for our help. Let countries fall into chaos as the Taliban cuts off peoples hands and murders children. Who cares if other places around the world think its OK to stone a 13 year old female to death because she let herself get raped.

I have learned from this thread that the US is the main problem for everyone in the world so we should just let them handle their problems on their own. Granted last time that causes Hitler to almost control the world but, who cares because we are the problem.

I'm betting the burns are from a storage of munitions that got blown up. The poor kids didn't know their dads had that in the house I bet.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Look before you jump and attack.

I said I AGREE WITH YOU it happens, but i am yet to actually see footage or evidence of it.

And no, i havent seen any footage of Iraqi's hiding behind civv'ies and shooting at troops, id like to see that.



[edit on 11-5-2009 by Agit8dChop]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by whoshotJR
 


I think you hit the nail on the head.

Good post.

I too, am so sick of hearing the ** bitching, whining, and complaining.

We should cut off all foreign aid, keep it home and tell everyone else to figure it out.

We've shed a lot of American blood all over the world over the past 200 years trying to help others, and they turn right around and * on us.

Well, * on them.

* 'em.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by dooper

So supposedly, according to you, military ordinance professionals you are, this military WP air-dropped bomb goes off, and of all the casualties in the area, she's the ONLY ONE with any indication of odd burns?



If your ability to comprehend my post is this limited, its no wonder you are basically calling for the extermination of the Muslim people in your other post.

What I was demonstrating, by using the 8-year-old girl as an example, was that no civilian should lose their life so that we can eliminate the Taliban. You said it yourself, White Phosphorous is a destructive and irresponsible weapon that results in mass civilian casualties.

The 8-year-old girl was innocent. If we kill even one innocent, we become terrorists ourselves. By using weapons like WP, we have become a terror organization far more damaging to world peace than the Taliban will ever be.

How can someone with two eyes and cognitive faculties not see that?


Those of you who support the U.S. using White Phosphorous, I can't imagine you would feel the same way if another country, say, Russia or China or Iran, were using it on our allies. Hypocrisy at its finest.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Since you had an attack on something you 'thought' i said, i might as well offer you little respect too...




I too, am so sick of hearing the ** bitching, whining, and complaining.


Im sure the civilians are sick of hearing jets, tanks, shootings bombs and loud noises.. as their roof's cave in and there families are pulverized by an errant US missile. But you dont hear them complaining do you..
actually, come to think of it, ive never heard a dead women speak!




We should cut off all foreign aid, keep it home and tell everyone else to figure it out.


How thoughtful.
You invade a land,
You get sick of its natural inhabitants trying to get you out.
Therefore you cut off aid to all the actual poor impoverished nations that need it as retaliation against.. what.. poor people?



We've shed a lot of American blood all over the world over the past 200 years trying to help others, and they turn right around and * on us.


There's a difference between conviccing idiots that your over there saving a people, when in fact your only there for the corporate figureheads running the country, and also because they have an abundance of OIL.

I mean, Hitler told Europe he was ridding the world of Evil Jews.
are you the sort of person who would of sat by yelling at the French

'' How dare you stop us, we're trying to save you from the Jews ''

Funny how History sorts out the people who cant comprehend ruthless, greedy nations.. isnt it!



[edit on 11-5-2009 by Agit8dChop]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


The difference is that in Russia or china they wouldn't have people complaining about it or they would be hunted down and killed.

It sucks the little girl died because well... she is just a little girl. Does it change the story if that little girls dad was planning an attack to kill thousands of people and had the bombs in the house?

Why isn't it the militants fault for mixing their troops in with a civilian area?

The people we are fighting would have no problem killing 100% civilians and they wouldn't care if they needed to strap the bomb to that little girl in the first place.

War is not pretty and people die. That's the reality of the situation.



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


No Royalty here Dooper my friend, it's just a name several thousand people the world share over.

The Constitution I was talking about is the United State's of America.
I read it almost every day.

We sure don't waste any time or spare any money trying to seek extradtion for Columbian Cocaine Kingpins to stand trial in America under our system of justice and answer for their crimes to a Jury of Americans.

Many of those men have far more blood on their hands and have done far more damage to out economy than who was ever involved in attacking us September 11th.

My bet is the MOSSAD and CIA working in tandem and I am exercising my inalienable right to say that and I am not alone in saying it my friend.

All I see in Afghanistan is an oil pipeline the Taliban refused to build and an opium harvest that has increased 90 fold since they were chased from Government.

None of the Highjackers were from there, and the Taliban offered to apprehend and extradite Bin Laden if we would supply proof.

We have to provide proof to the Columbians in the very same fashion when we ask for them to extradite a Cocaine King Pin.

There is nothing Partiotic about the Patriot Act, there is nothing Constitutional in FISA and I would expect a name like Homeland Security Department in Nazi Germany but I sure would not expect it in the home of the free and the brave.

I think the people who committed the greatest crime ever against American Citizens are getting off scott free, and you can't prove me wrong dooper my friend, because the Government has never proven itself right through the Constitutional process.

I consider that an insult to the American people and it's principals and no silly deflection of suggesting any other motivation will hold sway with me my friend because I have the inalienable right to speak to the truth and say what I think and anyone who imagines there is anything remotely un-American about that is sadly mistaken.

This isn't HELO dooper, these are real human beings who were all created equal being treated disgustingly and attrociously less and no American who believes in our Constitution would ever let lust for pure violence and unqualified revenge supercede our lofty ideals.

We are conducting an amoral policy of collectively punishing innocent women and men for a crime unproven that they don't even stand accused of.

I will not pretend otherwise.



[edit on 11/5/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on May, 11 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


I don't think you really grasped what he said.

It is unlikely that a WP bomb went off and only one person was burned by it. It sounds like it was a WP grenade, which the US military doesn't have.

I have never encountered one anyways and I have been deployed more then once and engauged in numerous missions.



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