Put away your crosses already

Originally posted by watchtheashes
I would just like to say that Jesus is the Son of God and the anointed one for humanity and not an idol. He did what He did so that we may be brought back to Paradise on Earth and The Kingdom Of God. Your perception makes sense to me though. I understand what your are saying. I believe God exists without time as well. I don't want to sound forceful but I can't help thinking about New Age beliefs when you put out the ideas. The Anti-Christ will be a New Age teacher....so it strikes a chord.

Jesus was not an idol sure. But people and the church have turned him into one. Jesus does everything he possibly can to show people the difference between him and the father. He even says - the father is greater than I, and things like the father speaks through me, the father is within me and so on. But still they elevate Jesus as to being the father and that is when you turn him into an idol, for thou shall not have any other gods before me. If Jesus understands and makes that distinction, then others should as well. But they don't. The closest they come to making that distinction is the "trinity", which says that the father is not in others as well. Only if the Jesus part of the trinity is replaced by each individual person does that become true.

When you speak of the anti-christ and stuff, ALL religions are of him. ALL of them. All foundations of the earth are out of course, ALL of them. They are all focused on the literal rather than the understanding. But, within each of them there is understanding to be had for those who seek it. It has little to do with the actual words someone may use to express their understanding, but everything to do with those who accept rather than understand.

The anti-christ religion is that which Jesus fought against, it has always been there. Is there much argument that those who killed him and what they did could be any less than anti-christ? Same authority that lives today.

The easy way to not be deceived by such a thing is just not trust any man ever, no matter what, myself included. The father gives understanding to those who seek, and if you accept what any man does then you have tried to cheat and you aren't seeking. It honestly wasn't until I got to the point where I didn't trust anything someone said that I started to seek for myself, and because I was seeking in an honest manner, IE: Looking for the truth even if it means exposing your own faults. I looked at this world in dispair, and asked how all people could live in peace and so forth, and I was shown the same path Jesus speaks of, and the same things Jesus speaks of(to my amazement, I had no idea because I only ever knew the way the church presents it). No man can give you understanding. The best I or anyone else can do is get you to question things, at which point you will be seeking.

You think I sound new age because I say god is within you and all of us. But this is the very first thing I actually understood. Although to be quite honest, I was shown that I am god, and I am arguing with myself. Now, that doesn't mean I am the father and know all, I do not. The father is much greater than me, just as Jesus says. But it is the father within that gives you consciousness and allows you to be an "observer" of this universe.

To be an observer and have consciousness is what separates us from the creation. We are not of this creation. Consciousness(called soul in the bible) is of the father, and all is 1 in the end. There is only 1 observer of creation. If the father was not in you, then you would lack this. You would just be another action and reaction tool, like a robot. But because you have the father within you, then you are able to understand and reason.

Now, the reason I say all religions are out of course and such is because they try to get you to accept and then act based on this. This is to sell your soul and give away you free will. People reject their own understandings and accept instead what the authorities of this world do. This is all designed to turn people into "robots". Thus, giving away all that is the father within them, thus turning their back on the father and what the father gives.

So when the father says he gives understanding and without him there is no understanding, that is exactly the case. You would be just like a robot, only acting on action and reaction. I'm a programmer and AI was once a personal goal of mine. But not just AI, I wanted to create actual intelligence. I abandoned all that when I realized that #1 I was trying to recreate all of which was already created, and #2 without consciousness/soul it would only ever be artificial intelligence, incapable of understanding, observing and knowing what it mean "to be" because it doesn't have the father in it. I would have to somehow put my consciousness in it, or it would take an act of god to get such a thing.

So when you look out at society, you see dualism alot. Why? Because they are reducing your choices, reducing your will in order to control you. Because if they can get you into such a state, then you are as controllable as a rocket. They will introduce the specific actions(like 9/11) in order to get the reactions they want(wars for profit, a path of death and destruction). It doesn't really matter and they don't really care what you believe, just so long as you never understand.

So there are 2 births. 1 is the birth of your physical body. Which comes from the "dust of the earth". It works off action and reaction, just as all creation does. The 2nd birth is the birth of the soul. And that is the birth of the father within you, that which gives you consciousness and so forth. Btw, the father is the virgin, there is no equal to him for him to mate with. Jesus rejects Mary as his mother for a reason, and he has a physical bloodline through Joseph. I'm pretty sure this was changed to Mary due to a misunderstanding of the OT(ask a Jewish person).

The 2nd birth is explained in John 14. Which is what I experienced in my vision and what I learned from the father. It is also what got me talking about the bible and these things.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Notice, at that day means it is speaking of a specific time when you will know this. This is what I understood on that day. A day which changed my life completely and forever. The day I gained understanding. I expressed this as I am god and I am arguing with myself, but I was merely recognizing the father within me and others. AKA, my true self.

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

This is what I experienced. I did not love Jesus, did not keep his sayings and didn't hear him. I do now, but when I came to these things I didn't. I heard the father, and then I was given understanding after it.

So these things only seem "new age" because these truths have been hidden, and Jesus has been turned into an idol as a way of saying he is all that you are not, which is again so that another man can come along some day and claim that role. Of course, those who already know what I am talking about won't fall for such a thing.

Psalm 82

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Still sound new age? I can keep going if you want. There is much understanding once you realize just a few small truths. Of course, be sure you are gaining understanding, not accepting what I say because it sounds good. You should treat me and all men as a possible anti-christ. Because the only real way to know is to have your own understanding.



[edit on 11-5-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Jesus was saying the saved will walk the path. He was not saying the ones who make it to the end of the path will be saved.

Maybe you should spend less time praising Jesus and trying to look like you are of him with fancy avatars and such, and more time gaining understanding?

Matthew 24

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.




[edit on 11-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is not talking about an individual road to salvation. It is about many people over a long period of time. The salvation mentioned is not a spiritual type but of being physically kept alive. It goes along with the idea of not worrying about what you are going to eat and drink. Jesus is giving a promise that in the end, Satan is not going to be able to point to an utter desolation as his proof of victory over God.

reply to post by badmedia

Still sound new age?

That would be generous, to say that.
I suppose in order to be kind, someone would attribute what your condition is, as "New Age".
You state in your thesis that no one else in the world had any truth, so you had to get your understanding directly from God.
Suppose I was seeking truth, what would I make of you?
Are you the exception to the rule?
I suppose you can be your own Messiah but by your own rules, you can not be anyone else's.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
That would be generous, to say that.
I suppose in order to be kind, someone would attribute what your condition is, as "New Age".

I'd rather have an honest opinion, than someone to lie to me in order to "be nice". I consider such things to be disrespectful. As apparently, you believe I am unable to handle your honest opinion. Well, you will always get my honest opinion.

You state in your thesis that no one else in the world had any truth, so you had to get your understanding directly from God.

Many people I have since meet that have understanding. But no man on earth can give you that understanding. If you just accept rather than seek, then you won't understand.

Suppose I was seeking truth, what would I make of you?

If you follow me, then I will call you a fool. If you accept what I say, then you are a fool. But if you understand and can hear me, then great. If you can understand and hear me, then you likely already know the father. Pretty simple really.

Are you the exception to the rule?

Nope, and I will happily remind you of this fact. There is only 1 teacher, 1 father, 1 master. Should someone gain understanding from anything I say, then you can bet it was probably not me they hear, but the father within me.

I suppose you can be your own Messiah but by your own rules, you can not be anyone else's.

Well of course on the outside it would appear that one is their own messiah, but as the father is within then only those without understanding would see it in such a way.

Crazy Christians, all about a personal relationship with god, but Hell will come before they will actually allow it.

Thanks, gave me a new thing to add to my sig.


[edit on 11-5-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by jmdewey60
This is not talking about an individual road to salvation. It is about many people over a long period of time. The salvation mentioned is not a spiritual type but of being physically kept alive. It goes along with the idea of not worrying about what you are going to eat and drink. Jesus is giving a promise that in the end, Satan is not going to be able to point to an utter desolation as his proof of victory over God.

If you have already endured to the end, then why does one need to be saved in the physical past that point?

Makes no sense at all the way you put it. You talk about what it takes to endure to the end, but yet Jesus is addressing those who make it to the end, and then says they will be saved.

reply to post by badmedia

Many people I have since meet that have understanding. But no man on earth can give you that understanding. If you just accept rather than seek, then you won't understand.

Thanks for clearing that up, so I do not have to think you are paranoid or something.

reply to post by badmedia

Makes no sense at all the way you put it. You talk about what it takes to endure to the end, but yet Jesus is addressing those who make it to the end, and then says they will be saved.

All I can say is they need to be saved from themselves, crackpot unsubstantiated ideals must cause eventual schitzophrenia; as you've discovered!
I wish though, their saviour would take them away and give us all a break; there's enough B.S. in the world already.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by badmedia

 

Many people I have since meet that have understanding. But no man on earth can give you that understanding. If you just accept rather than seek, then you won't understand.

Thanks for clearing that up, so I do not have to think you are paranoid or something.

You just don't understand me. I will put it in terms of math.

If I say 1+1=2 and you accept that is truth, then you lack understanding. If I say 1+1=2, and you understand that is truth because you know how to add, then you can hear me.

We are forced to speak in terms of 1+1=2. You can not "see" understanding. You can only see in terms of things which express that understanding. Thus while you may be technically right if you say 1+1=2, you are still a blind fool until you can learn how to add.

1+1=2 is how this world gives, it's the only way this world can give. This is not how the father gives. The father gives in understanding, rather than the father preaching and having you accept 1+1=2, the father will just give you understanding of math, and then by default you will know 1+1=2, and you will also know 1+2=3 and so forth. All that Jesus deals with, you will see in this world. Not because they label themselves as Pharisees, Money changers and so forth, but because you are looking at their fruits and understand.

This is also how I recognize the father within Jesus and others. Not because of what they say or what they use to express it, but based on the understanding behind it.

Is Jesus telling the truth? Yes. How do I know? Because the bible says so? No. Because a bunch of people claim it to be true? No. Only because I am able to recognize the father within him, and the understanding given from the father.

You can not hear me, you can not hear Jesus and you can not hear the father because you only focus on 1+1=2 rather than the understanding. Thus you create a false idol by worshiping 1+1=2 as truth rather than the understanding it expresses. That is the difference in listening and hearing. You can listen to me all day long, but until you have your own understanding you will never hear me.



[edit on 11-5-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Dont waste your time with math! Jesus probably didnt do math. and also the good book states that 1+2=20

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
Dont waste your time with math! Jesus probably didnt do math. and also the good book states that 1+2=20

There are 2 sides to the acceptance coin. Those who accept what men say and go along with it, and those who accept what men say and go against it(rebellion). In both cases, the person would be allowing others to define things for them, as they have accepted those people as being the authority on the topic.

reply to post by badmedia


My problem is they can never live and let live without pi__sing in your pocket with buckets of patronism.
I really dont care If the beast is called Satan or Krispy Kreem! Cant they realize the things that frighten themselves into candid devotion; are things that other people couldn't care less about!
If you dont have the faith, the rules dont apply!

reply to post by badmedia

This is also how I recognize the father within Jesus and others. Not because of what they say or what they use to express it, but based on the understanding behind it.

Considering you are able to judge Jesus, it comes as no surprise that you feel you can judge others.
The demons recognized Jesus but they are not going to be saved. Salvation does not come from understanding.
If you have to analyze it and see if it passes the filter of your understanding then you subject the truth to conditional acceptance.
Jesus said of children, such are the ones of the kingdom. Children do not even have the ability to recognize sarcasm when they hear it. You think you are better than the Pharisees but I have to think you are another version of it. They wanted Jesus to convince them. Pilot asked for the truth and Jesus remained silent. Jesus did not recognize him as one that God had given him.
You may have a desire to be saved, just like Pilot and the Pharisees did. Jesus says you can not get in by going around the gate. Creating an alternative universe in your mind where you are saved, does not save you.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Considering you are able to judge Jesus, it comes as no surprise that you feel you can judge others.

I have yet to judge you. I guess you would say Jesus went around judging people because he disagreed with them? There is a difference between making good judgments for oneself(wisdom) and judging other people.

If I were judging you, then you would be receiving punishment. As you are not receiving punishment from me, then it is because I am obviously not judging you.

It certainly doesn't seem as if you have a problem posting your opinion and telling people you think they are wrong. Isn't that what you are doing here? Shall I accuse you of judging me? Am I to accuse you of "judging Jesus" because you have an opinion on things?

Oh let me guess, it's different for you because you got it from the church and accepted what authority told you rather than having gained your own understanding?

The demons recognized Jesus but they are not going to be saved. Salvation does not come from understanding.

Proverbs 8

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

Tell me again, what is the purpose of the holy spirit? Is it not to bring understanding? And yet, you put me down for having understanding?

If you have to analyze it and see if it passes the filter of your understanding then you subject the truth to conditional acceptance.

Actually, I mostly have to analyze and find ways to express things for your benefit, not my own. When the father gives understanding, then there isn't any question of if it is true or not, because it's like knowing how to add. It is immediately understood, no questions asked - outside the question which brings the understanding. Afterall, one must ask before they can receive. Ever notice that before Jesus heals anyone, he makes them ask for it? What can I do for you?

But in reality, you are just doing the normal christian response when pressed and shown that their understanding is lacking. Rather than address the point I made previously about those who endure being saved, you have now resorted to trying to attack my credibility.

Jesus said of children, such are the ones of the kingdom. Children do not even have the ability to recognize sarcasm when they hear it. You think you are better than the Pharisees but I have to think you are another version of it. They wanted Jesus to convince them.

You think I am asking you to convince me? Jesus says one must become as a child again. Why? Because you will have to drop all that you have accepted on the authority of men before you can accept the understanding and authority of the father. As you can not have 2 masters. So, when you drop all understanding of men, then you become like a child. And then the father will fill your treasures with wisdom, knowledge and understanding. Just as it says in Proverbs 8 about those who seek him early.

Pilot asked for the truth and Jesus remained silent. Jesus did not recognize him as one that God had given him.

John 14

24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Notice, I never say Jesus told me these things, it is the father who did.

You may have a desire to be saved, just like Pilot and the Pharisees did. Jesus says you can not get in by going around the gate. Creating an alternative universe in your mind where you are saved, does not save you.

Truth be told, I don't even have to be on this planet. I am here by my own free will and choice. The only actual spoken words I ever heard from the father was simply to let me know I do not have to be here, that it can end whenever I want it to. I stay for the benefit of others, to try and help others as best I can.

I realize such is no good for you, and that's fine as it wasn't meant for you. But threats and trying to instill fear that I won't be saved and such isn't going to get you anywhere with me.

I invite you to compare the path I speak of against the path the church teaches. You tell me which is more narrow. I say one must follow and do what Jesus does, live by the commandments. The church and Christians say that one need only believe Jesus is Lord and Savior. Which path is more broad? Which path has lead to death and destruction?

Under what I say, that rich man is exactly where Jesus put him, needing to follow the commandments and walk the path. Under what you and the church says, that rich man is now saved while still walking that broad path.

As a matter of fact, in the way you present Jesus and such, it is an alternative path that tries to go around the gates which the narrow path I speak of lead. Thus why it is so broad.


[edit on 11-5-2009 by badmedia]

Nowhere will you find it in the Laws of God that a flesh and blood human sacrifice is condoned for the covering of your sins.

Cain and Abel would likely disagree...

Originally posted by KRISKALI777
My problem is they can never live and let live without pi__sing in your pocket with buckets of patronism.
I really dont care If the beast is called Satan or Krispy Kreem! Cant they realize the things that frighten themselves into candid devotion; are things that other people couldn't care less about!
If you dont have the faith, the rules dont apply!

But it becomes a matter of if what they do is an actual reflection of what is said to do.

If I didn't/couldn't seperate those kinds of people from what the bible says, I wouldn't speak in the way I do. But the problem is the bible and such tells these people to do exactly the opposite of those things.

So my point is - are you basing your opinions based on what these people do in the name of it, or are you basing your opinions on what is actually said?

I mean, if what they do is what Jesus told them to do, then I would be completely against it. The problem is Jesus tells them to do the opposite, and himself deals with everything you mention. Jesus warns about those who do all the things you mention. So in reality, he would actually be on your side in regards to pointing out those things, but would also try to show you the correct understanding as well.

For example. Take a peak of christian missionaries who go around the world trying to convert people. This is something Jesus scolds the Pharisees about.

Matthew 23

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

A proselyte is someone who converts religions.

So my question to you is this. Do I base my opinion on the fact that Christians do this? Or do I base my opinion on the fact that they are told not to do this? If they are not doing what is said, then are they actually a reflection of Jesus and what is said?

IMO, if you allow their actions to define it, rather than what is actually said, then that is to accept that what they do as being a reflection of it. In which case, you would be allowing them to define these things for you. I refuse to let them define these things for me, and point it out.

reply to post by badmedia

But in reality, you are just doing the normal christian response when pressed and shown that their understanding is lacking. Rather than address the point I made previously about those who endure being saved, you have now resorted to trying to attack my credibility.

I did not realize that you expected me to address your "point". It looked like you were just saying that what I said did not make sense. Well, what you said about it did not make sense to me. I just figured we had such a wide difference in opinion that we found each other's incomprehensible, so I figured I would just drop it.
Let me give you an example of one of your statements I have a problem with: "But yet, you worship Jesus the idol as if he was god." My opinion is that Jesus is a lot closer to being God than you could possibly be in this lifetime. If you feel that you have equality with Jesus and need no intercessor between you and the Father, then you have another religion of your own invention. It is not original and is just your own way of coming up with Gnosticism but without apparent reverence for God's anointed. Do you have any idea what this means? Regardless of what status someone else gives to Jesus, you must at least give him the respect that God the Father has bestowed upon him.


[edit on 11-5-2009 by jmdewey60]

Personally, I doubt you even understand what you say, much less anything I say.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Let me give you an example of one of your statements I have a problem with: "But yet, you worship Jesus the idol as if he was god." My opinion is that Jesus is a lot closer to being God than you could possibly be in this lifetime. If you feel that you have equality with Jesus and need no intercessor between you and the Father, then you have another religion of your own invention. It is not original and is just your own way of coming up with Gnosticism but without apparent reverence for God's anointed. Do you have any idea what this means? Regardless of what status someone else gives to Jesus, you must at least give him the respect that God the Father has bestowed upon him.

John 14

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

And funny you mention gnostics. You know, the ones who have been killed, persecuted and so forth by the Christian church. The ones who's texts weren't allowed into the bible because the authority of the time didn't like them(wonder why).

Seems I remember Jesus saying those who are true will be persecuted to the end. And yet, we see the gnostic were persecuted by the church and Paul.

Google Video Link

And yet, why does gnosticism keep popping up over and over in it's own way? You don't suppose it's because people seek.

Tell me, if god says in Proverbs 8 that those who seek him early and love him will have their treasures filled with knowledge and wisdom, and gnostic means "with knowledge", and despite the constant persecution these things still manage to popup, doesn't that make bells ring in your ears?

Kind of like how does "christianity" pop up after Jesus, while he warns of a religion that will come in his name, and get such power in a world that is not the kingdom of Jesus, goes around persecuting people who don't go along(more prophecy fulfilled) like the gnostics while you are still waiting for his return?

Shouldn't the very fact that your beliefs have been promoted for 1600+ years rather than persecuted be like a big freaking clue?

reply to post by badmedia

Shouldn't the very fact that your beliefs have been promoted for 1600+ years rather than persecuted be like a big freaking clue?

Being a Protestant has not always been a free ride. Having the Bible has not always been a given. Being a believer in the seventh day Sabbath is not exactly the way to avoid persecution. I expect to be a victim of new persecution on the horizon. I do not buy into the State religion of the New World Order. I do not have a crucifix on my wall and I can see part of your point about idolatry. There is a great big Idol that is waiting expectantly for the world to worship it and I will not be among the masses to bow down to it.