Woman is denied from using rainwater off her own roof!

reply to post by codemonkey

Thanks for that I think you explained it well.

It is different from the way most live so I guess it sounds pretty restrictive. It does not suck living here. I love where I live and have plenty of water for what I need. We just conserve where we can and it's hard to explain but I feel bad letting water run. Living here has made me more appreciative of what most take for granted.

We lived through a horrible drought about 4 or 5 years ago. It was bad I worried about the dust bowl all the soil around my house turned to moon dust blowing around in the winds. The lake that supplies a nearby town dried up to a mud puddle. Fish & game asked residents to come get the poor fish out, no limits just take the fish before they died. It's starting to get better but we lost so many trees. So yes we are aware of every drop and they do add up.

If the water off my roof means someone in Kansas has decent water to give their kids or water some vegies I say go ahead I've got enough. I suspect this lady also has access to water for her enterprise she just wanted to get some free water for her business. Can't blame her it was worth a try. If she has lived in Colorado or the west for any length of time I'm sure she knew there was a good chance she would be turned down.

reply to post by theQuest

I appologize for that! I take full responsibilty.
I have had ample time to do that.
Let me give you an inkling as to why I dont hold out much hope that would work. I personally have tried endlessly. I get "thank you for writing us" letters back and that's it. The're too busy spending our kids' money!
From the bailouts to the tea parties to the "contract oil" war, it's clear we have no voice anymore, or I should say it's never listened to if we ever did have one.
I think a better idea is to not be a part of the whole corrupt process altogether. Decide to live your life for yourself as an individual, not as an
unpaid employee of the state. This change we need and speak of can only
come from us, inside, one at a time. Not millions marching on fox and cnn.
While this may help, it will not really FIX anything, only prolong the inevitable "reset" that needs to happen for humanity's future's sake,
and probably scare them into tightening the noose even tighter and thus
gives them an excuse to futher erode our liberties and also provides them a label to use against us.
We had our shot at living large. You really want to fix the system?
Stop paying for your own demise! Give them NOTHING.
We must personally(and morally)detach from the corrupt system that is bringing civilization down around us and against us.
By playing the game(designed for us)we foster a false sense of empowerment, while our rights our systematically stripped away.
We have lost our country years ago, we just havent faced it yet.
By all means if you think a million voices(or one)will do any good in fixing
a national lack of common sense, go for it.
At least we could maybe win a battle or two!
I've got better things to spend my time on(like digging up this stuff)
than helping them destroy any hope of a future for us.
I appologize for the negativity. I been needing to "air this out".
As you can tell from my name, I dont hold out much hope.
But...miracles do happen!
If they dont bat an eyelash over taking OUR very lifeblood away,
who's to say they wouldn't do that with anything and everything else?
(and not bat an eye, only a sly grin as they count money)
Of course I'm more than likely paranoid and all wrong.
Anyway, good stuff guys! Thanks! Rock on!

[edit on 12-5-2009 by dodadoom]

Wow I live in Colorado so does that mean that when I go out in the rain and the rain rains on me no matter where I am I would be stealing it from the people the own the rain? thatss rediculous it reminds me of the guy that just came back from the army and his drivers license expired and was pulled over and had to pay 3000 dollars to get his car back! man these people have no common sense.

reply to post by mhinsey

Thank you for finding and posting that!
I was looking for that very info to post on here!
Thanks for all your contributions! And everyone!
I have a deep appreciation for all of you on ATS and much respect also!
May your garden always be green!

I wonder how this applies to the ski slopes? Do they have any right to the snowfall on their land under these laws?

Too complicated for my little mind.

reply to post by dodadoom


No big. I am a google fanatic. If someone says something I don't get, I google it about 10 different ways to verify and fill out my knowledge of that information. You ought to see my research on medical "natural" supplements. My co-workers look at me like I am a freak.

Here’s a link.
www.waterencyclopedia.com...

Today nearly 17 million people depend on the Colorado's waters. The basin population has expanded dramatically in recent years, with most growth occurring in urban areas, where about 80 percent of the region's residents live. Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona, and Las Vegas, Nevada are the largest cities in the basin, and they use the Colorado River and its tributaries as their primary source of water.
The Colorado River Aqueduct carries water to metropolitan Los Angeles, and the Central Arizona Project supplies the Phoenix and Tucson areas. The All-American Canal provides water for the Imperial Valley of southern California, a productive agricultural region converted from a desert.

It seems some of you feel that rain on the roof is such an insignificant amount what could it hurt. You just don’t understand the nature of Colorado. It doesn’t rain often, where I live, but when it does all hell breaks loose. Because of our altitude we don’t flood in the usual sense, instead we flash flood. It all hits in one mass and wants to leave quickly in that same mass unless it’s hindered. Our soil aids in the evacuation/runoff. It’s fast moving water here. All the rain from all the roofs in Colorado gathers together and leaves in one fail swoop. Not much time for soaking in or evaporating. It’s just like turning on a faucet and watching it go down the drain.

Now to give you an idea of how much rain can be harvested from a large roof. Some water cheating landowners were using several 50 gallon rain barrels and a 1200 gallon cistern rigged with gutters. During one severe rain they’d fill up everything even topping off the cistern . Now the cistern may not have been empty to start but whatever was in there was from the rain. Now you multiply that by every resident of Colorado and that little rain on the roof adds up.

We are not just the state of Colorado we are also the “guardians” of a portion of Rocky Mountain Water which by natural rights has been utilized by the western US since the mountains were first formed. You could say we our honoring prior commitments. We just have the unique responsibility of sharing a very vital resource with others. Colorado water is never a sure thing so it is closely monitored and regulated for good reason.

There’s just so much you are not taking into consideration. This is a desert region any business venture involving water is going to have to pay for that water. It doesn’t mean she can’t stay in business she will just have to pay to use a city source. If she was able to sell her stuff cheaper or reap higher profits due to her free water permit it would not be fair to the competition unless they were allowed to do the same. Can’t you see where this could lead?

There’s a spring not far from my house that runs non stop. People come from all around to fill containers. It’s free people love it and no one gets greedy. Now what if someone got the idea to use that free water for their small farming venture. All those people with containers would have to wait while this farmer fills his 500 gallon water tank. He would have the same rights as anyone else but don’t you think it would be inconsiderate or taking advantage? Well I can assure you the people waiting would think so and they would run him off. Or how about this scenario some business person wants to bottle this spring water for profit obtaining the land would not be enough they would have to own the water rights as well. This could make for an expensive venture. So the people and their happy little spring are safe. It can work both ways. You change the laws and the money men will come out of the woodwork looking to profit.

reply to post by Morningglory


Thats a good point but still I don't think rain that falls on someones roof or in their back yard is gonna make it to the colorado river or the Platte or any other and besides by collecting rain water in your own backyard to drink or do whatever with your not taking it from the much needed water in these rivers.

I agree and good points!
I would go out on a limb here and say lack of conservation,
and a perception that our water supply is endless, contributes to
these problems as much as anything!
Also, you never hear urban sprawl mentioned or heaven forbid,
overpopulation. Not when we all think having 18 kids is hunky dory.
The planet can only sustain so many humans, regardless.
This is the real war going on you never hear about. The war for more!
We are fighting over water because there are too many of us!
And never enough of these resources to go around, apparently.
We demand to live in inhospitable areas, while expecting all the luxuries.
How many have left the water running needlessly before?
How many forgot to turn the sprinkler off.
How many sprinklers have I seen watering a road before?
(perfectly and completely enough to have torrential runoff)
Before you take my water, CONSERVE and use your own.
How many think filling up the whole bathtub is needed and normal?
Would you be as clean by using half as much water? Thanks!

Not being able to use the rain water that falls on your property is just insane.

I'm pisses me off that I live in a world where stupid laws like this exist.

The Texas Manual on Rainwater Harvesting!
www.twdb.state.tx.us...

Wow super great info everyone can use!
(even if you dont live in Texas)!

reply to post by dodadoom

S&F for you dodadoom. This issue hits very close to home and I thank you for bringing it to the boards.

Many in the US and across the globe do have a seemingly endless supply of good water. Don't take it for granted.

I do think it's important for others to consider what life in a desert region entails. I love this place if it seems too restrictive or harsh for others, then we have moved to the right place! People who refuse to adapt will not make it here. Imo that is why my area has remained unpopulated and we prefer it that way.

Sorry - haven't read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if this is already present in other responses.

What we all need to remember is just two words - water table

And of course know just a little bit of what has happened with the water table in India, China and the US.

It has dropped dramatically because of farmers sinking wells and pumping water to grow crops.

One statistic:
"In rural India, where 750 villages were without water resources in 1985, the number rose to 65,000 villages by 1996"

Another:
"Scores of countries are overpumping aquifers as they struggle to satisfy their growing water needs, including each of the big three grain-producing countries—China, India, and the United States. Their populations, along with those of other countries where overpumping will measurably reduce the food supply when aquifers are depleted, exceed 3 billion people, or half the world total"

Or this one:
"Data for monitored wells in northern Gujarat (India) suggest that the water table has fallen from a depth of 15 meters to 400 meters over the last three decades"

And that is why governments have to keep tabs on rain water.
Because my friends. Aquafiers are mainly fed by rainwater.

And the insane use of freshwater from taps to water gardens, feed waterslides, keep an obscenely large lawn deep green or keep swimming pools topped up, does nothing to help the situation.

So having a revolution because the government restricts waste of water is the best way to make sure that we won't live to enjoy our new fought for freedom.

reply to post by HolgerTheDane

I was a bit surprised at hearing such wisdom concerning water from a Dane but shame on me for not knowing better. Since you’re obviously not one to toot your own horn let me do it for you……

it’s an accepted national truism that Danes, according to their
own self-perception, are the best in the world at almost everything.
Yet this may very well be the case when it comes to the supply,
treatment and knowledge about water. Danish researchers
and consultants set the agenda in international forums such as
the Global Water Partnership and the EU Water Initiative for Africa
and Newly Industrialised Countries, as well as projects in the UN
and UNESCO and elsewhere. Danish water competencies are well
respected internationally – not least due to legislation that early
on created the framework and incentives for water related technological
advances.
Denmark has set world records in energy efficiency.
www.denmark.dk...

I applaud your country. It takes 100% cooperation and sounds like you’re all on the same page.

Here's a few things to ponder.

Q: How much water does the average person use at home per day?
A: Estimates vary, but each person uses about 80-100 gallons of water per day.
ga.water.usgs.gov...

My husband and I together use 700 gallons per week or 50 gallons per person per day. Everything in our home is set up for low water use. We have no dishwasher or ice maker. This is normal use but I can cut back more.

We routinely check for leaks.

Q: Does a little leak in my house really waste water?
A: It's not the little leak that wastes water -- it is the little leak that keeps on leaking that wastes water. And the fact that the leak is so little means that maybe you ignore it. So, how can a little leak turn into a big waste? Many of our toilets have a constant leak -- somewhere around 22 gallons per day. This translates into about 8,000 gallons per year of wasted water, water that could be saved. Or think of a leaky water line coming into your house. If it leaks 1 gallon of water every 10 minutes that means that you are losing (and paying for) 144 gallons per day, or 52,560 gallons per year.
ga.water.usgs.gov...

"There is no substitute for water"

World Without Water
www.youtube.com...
Another perspective! (Colorado river info is towards the end of the video)
Thank you Morningglory! Thanks for your your input also Holgerthedane!
Indeed the groundwater pumping is a huge issue here!
Everyone wants their share regardless!
Then theres always the salmon and other creatures to think about too!
Nope, I dont mind the rain a bit!


[edit on 15-5-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by Morningglory
***snip very nice comments***

My husband and I together use 700 gallons per week or 50 gallons per person per day. Everything in our home is set up for low water use. We have no dishwasher or ice maker. This is normal use but I can cut back more.

Wow.

We are two middle age people.
We have lowflow showerhead. No bathtub. When we wash up by hand it is with minimal use and only run the tap on low to rinse soapy water off. We have a low consumption flush in the toilet (two settings 1 gallon flush or half gallon flush). Lowflow inserts in all taps. Our garden is watered by water from rain butts. No water in butts means minimum watering by watering can until rain comes. If plants don't survive we have chosen the wrong plants for our climate. To save water we shower together (keeps it interesting).

We use 22 gallons of water per person per day (when we use water consumption numbers from last year).

No dishwasher
No water slide
No swimming pool
No golf putting green
No ice maker
We do have a washing machine (which is a low water consumption model)

Of course my wife is English so we tend to have tea numerous times a day.

Originally posted by Some Guy
Not being able to use the rain water that falls on your property is just insane.

I'm pisses me off that I live in a world where stupid laws like this exist.

I feel your pain but just follow this link and see what could happen

Somewhere in India

A couple of arguments here...

If you don't own the land under your home, that in fact someone else has mineral rights to whatever is under your property, do they not owe you fees associating with the storage of their property on yours?

And with the rain. Again wouldn't a storage fee be adequate, after all it is your land that is storing their water.

reply to post by whatukno


To answer your first question just because someone else owns the mineral rights doesn't mean they'll find anything worth mining, no guarantees. Can't really charge them for something that may or may not even be here. This area was heavily mined for high grade coal about 50 years ago so there's a good chance it's long gone. We have vents everywhere the land is honeycombed with mine shafts. The well drillers have to go deep to get past them.

As far as charging for water storage that's a laugh our ground doesn't hold water for long it runs off. There is the aquifer down below but I mean come on. It's not like it's putting us out having it down there.

We do receive a grazing fee for cattle on our property. We have two nice meadows as long as we don't fence them off the rancher pays us. So we make a little money off pasture.

reply to post by HolgerTheDane

I knew you were going to 1 up me 22 gallons is damn good but you are a Dane after all. You make me feel like such a water hog. The 50 gallon a day figure is "normal" use and normal is not always possible. We find ourselves having to get by on considerably less.

When our land development went belly up we lost the development water in the process. We haul our water from the nearest town with a 500 gallon tank. During snow/mud season sometimes we can't get back to the cistern. We conserve more depending on the weather.

You've got me beat on the toilet ours is 1.5 gallon but we are country folk with no neighbors so we water the trees to save on flushes. We have a low flow shower head and a low consumption washing machine. I think doing dishes & showers wastes the most water for me. My husband is 6'2" and I'm 5'2" so we have a tough time sharing the shower head. I'm going to look into the faucet inserts. I really don't see how I can cut back more. I can't use stored rainwater so you've got me there.

I feel the same way about plants. I do pretty good I don't plant a huge garden and use lots of mulch. I've got a gardener friend in town who plants what I don't and we share. My husband isn't English but he sure chugs tea.