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Draft/Armed Forces Question

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dz

posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 09:01 AM
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I just have a bunch of questions that maybe some of you could help me with.

If they do the draft and I were to get drafted, would I be able to request not having to kill anyone? I understand by living in this country I might have to serve my time (although I dont agree with it), but I also have morals and do not want to kill a fellow man.

Also, are they allowed to touch you in bootcamp? For example, they tell me to get up at 5 am and I don't really care, so get up at 7. They tell me to stand up straight and I don't care. Can they grab me and push me around, or punch me or anythin?

I say this because if they can't, than what're they going to do if they draft me and I just don't listen. I'll go to boot camp and do all that. I did cross country and track all through high school/junior high, so I'm more than in shape. But as far as listening, if I don't want to be there, I won't be doing what they expect me to do. They can scream all they want in my face; it's not gonna change much.

I guess I just wanna know how far they can go to make you do what they want you to do.




posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 09:18 AM
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Well young man, it looks like someone is going to have a lot of fun in solitary confinement. Then, as they say things happen. "The man” comes in one day whips your arse really good, says that as he was taking your food into your cage and you jumped him, he claims to have been simply defending himself. Your word against his.

You go in with the attitude that you described above and they will break you down hour by hour until you are more or less programmed my friend. My advise would be to go in wake up at 5:00 (or whenever they tell you to), jump when they say jump, and do as they say and when your time is up get out. As you will soon learn, once in you have no control over your life.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 09:21 AM
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Request no having to kill anybody? Jesus man no! When you're drafted you are effectively chattel of the state. You do what they tell you, or they shoot you themselves.

Touch you in boot camp? Yes, they can not only touch you but kick you, punch you, whip you whatever they want.

You WILL do what they want you to. You WILL obey, and after a good amount of brainwashing, you'll come to love it. Relish the killing my boy, you'll froth at the mouth just by the very promise of it.

I'm sure the Canadians will be very welcoming to you.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 09:35 AM
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If you're not going to shoot anyone, then I doubt you'll be much of a help in that area. Perhaps they'll put you to work doing something else. There's other work to be done besides killing.

Like the others have stated, it's best to follow orders unless you want to be vanished.

I wouldn't sweat it, dz, many of us are subject to provide some sort of service if it is mandatory. Let's just hope we never see that day.


dz

posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 09:41 AM
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I have no problem with defending myself. If I'm in solitary confinement and someone tries to jump me, they'd better be prepared. I've had more than enough training for this and have no worries.

You both have explained to me what sounds like a Nazi death camp. I can understand if I volunteered to do this. I know what I am expecting, and am willing to go through this. But the fact that I am supposed to be forced into going to this place?

It's like showing me two paths, one of happy go lucky yay with sunshine, and the other is death, destruction, hatred and all that is unholy. Obviously I'd choose the happy one, but I'm being forced the death one. On top of that, they're going to treat me like crap?

I don't remember where I saw this quote, but it was along the lines of "Why are we letting old men send our young men to war" or something like that. If they want to take over another country, that's fine. Find enough volunteers that believe in your cause and do so. But don't go and force people that don't believe in your cause to fight for it. I'd rather die than kill. My life is not one of fighting.

I pay my taxes in this country. They take enough from my paycheck. Last thing I want to give them is my life.


dz

posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Bangin
If you're not going to shoot anyone, then I doubt you'll be much of a help in that area. Perhaps they'll put you to work doing something else. There's other work to be done besides killing.

Like the others have stated, it's best to follow orders unless you want to be vanished.

I wouldn't sweat it, dz, many of us are subject to provide some sort of service if it is mandatory. Let's just hope we never see that day.


Well I figured I could take up some sort of computer position. I have been using computers for a long time and have seen many of my friends going to work for the NSA or CIA for a field that we've done together for a long time. I figured I could do that. I'm sure when they pull up my records they'll see a nice listing of my capabilities, as I am aware of several occasions that we were watched and recorded.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by dz
I have no problem with defending myself. If I'm in solitary confinement and someone tries to jump me, they'd better be prepared. I've had more than enough training for this and have no worries.


Then you say,

My life is not one of fighting.


Am I missing something here?



You both have explained to me what sounds like a Nazi death camp. I can understand if I volunteered to do this. I know what I am expecting, and am willing to go through this. But the fact that I am supposed to be forced into going to this place?

It's like showing me two paths, one of happy go lucky yay with sunshine, and the other is death, destruction, hatred and all that is unholy. Obviously I'd choose the happy one, but I'm being forced the death one. On top of that, they're going to treat me like crap?

I don't remember where I saw this quote, but it was along the lines of "Why are we letting old men send our young men to war" or something like that. If they want to take over another country, that's fine. Find enough volunteers that believe in your cause and do so. But don't go and force people that don't believe in your cause to fight for it. I'd rather die than kill.
I pay my taxes in this country. They take enough from my paycheck. Last thing I want to give them is my life.


This, and many other examples have been screamed since the draft was first instated. You can think the President that Florida elected for this. His oil, his money, your's and many more people's life!


dz

posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by - G -
Then you say,
...
Am I missing something here?


No you're not. I learned what I learned to defend myself and my family. Not to go out and kill.

I'm a peaceful person, but I'm not ignorant.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:02 AM
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There's always a bigger fish, dz, whether you know it or not, and even if you aren't drafted, I suggest you learn that because its a valuable life lesson and one nobody should be without. Arrogance gets you nowhere.

The Nazi death camp thing was a little extreme, I thought. I don't understand why you're surprised at any of this, how old are you, if you don’t mind my asking?



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by dz

Originally posted by - G -
Then you say,
...
Am I missing something here?


No you're not. I learned what I learned to defend myself and my family. Not to go out and kill.

I'm a peaceful person, but I'm not ignorant.


I too feel quite confident that I can defend myself, but even I know that somewhere out there that there is someone who can kick my a s s . The military will have a field-day with you.


dz

posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by DamnableSara
There's always a bigger fish, dz, whether you know it or not, and even if you aren't drafted, I suggest you learn that because its a valuable life lesson and one nobody should be without. Arrogance gets you nowhere.

The Nazi death camp thing was a little extreme, I thought. I don't understand why you're surprised at any of this, how old are you, if you don’t mind my asking?


I'm not surprised; just bothered. I'm 21. I'm going to graduate college soon and move down to the Orlando area with my girlfriend, whom I'd like to propose to soon enough. I'm eyeing a job at NASA or Lockheed Martin down there, while she practically has her job at Disney doing Animation. What I'm saying is I've worked hard to get where I am. My parents didn't have much, and I'd like to repay them by being successful and being able to take care of them once they get older. I do not want to have to go to some war that I do not believe in, just to get hurt and ruin all that I have worked for.

Call me unpatriotic, I dont care.

I understand the Nazi death camp thing is extreme, as that is what I was aiming for. I dont think anything can truly compare to those. I was just pointing out the fact that I'm being sent to some place, against my will, where they will beat me. Then when they feel they're done, they will send me out to kill, or be killed. It's no Nazi death camp, but it's still a death camp.

[Edited on 27-4-2004 by dz]


dz

posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by - G -
I too feel quite confident that I can defend myself, but even I know that somewhere out there that there is someone who can kick my a s s . The military will have a field-day with you.


I'm not saying I will win all battles. I'm just saying that I will put up a fight.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:12 AM
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I understand that you don't believe in fighting for a cause that means nothing to you. But you seem to think if anybody went up against you, you'd rip them to shreds.

Good luck with that one.

If you agree it was extreme, and nothing can compare with it, than why did you?


I suppose I understand the connotations you're making, but like I said before, there's always a bigger fish.


dz

posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by DamnableSara
I understand that you don't believe in fighting for a cause that means nothing to you. But you seem to think if anybody went up against you, you'd rip them to shreds.


I never said that. I just said that I can defend myself. I understand that I can get a lesson handed to me, but what I was saying was that they're not going to walk away with nothing wrong either.

Sorry if that's how I came off; all this just kinda bothers me.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by dz

I'm just saying that I will put up a fight.


AND THEN YOU POST:



My life is not one of fighting.


OK, lets slow down here! Which one is it?



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:20 AM
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Are you in school? Cause technically if you're in school, they can't draft you if you're doing well and in college.

Live for now, I suppose, but I am relieved to see that you don't think you're the best thing since sliced bread but you do come off arrogantly.


dz

posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by - G -

Originally posted by dz

I'm just saying that I will put up a fight.


AND THEN YOU POST:



My life is not one of fighting.


OK, lets slow down here! Which one is it?


Why do you not understand this? What is so hard to grasp? Let me try and make this simpler, as I guess I'm being complicated:

I do not like to fight.

BUT

I will defend myself if the time comes.

Do you understand now?



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by dz

I'm just saying that I will put up a fight.


AND THEN YOU POST:



My life is not one of fighting.


OK, lets slow down here! Which one is it?


Do you understand now?


You contradicted yourself, I didn't?


dz

posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by DamnableSara
Are you in school? Cause technically if you're in school, they can't draft you if you're doing well and in college.

Live for now, I suppose, but I am relieved to see that you don't think you're the best thing since sliced bread but you do come off arrogantly.


Not necessarily. With the new draft, if you're a senior, you can put it off until your graduating year. And if you are anything else, you can put it off until the end of the semester.

Either way, I'll be graduated by then.

And sorry to come off arrogant, as that's not what I had intended.



posted on Apr, 27 2004 @ 10:30 AM
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Guys, quit messing with him. They don't call it bootcamp anymore, it's Basic Combat Training. No, they can't touch you, they can't even swear at you.(but they swear anyway) There have been many changes to the military, it is no longer legal to lay hands on a private, so don't worry about that.

If you seriously don't want to be there and you are there completely against your will, they can't really do anything to you. You could be a conciencious(sp?) objector and they'd probably just find some civilian capacity for you to serve your time in.

Don't let these guys kid you, I've been through basic, it's not that bad. Hell they don't even notice you if you do what they say.




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