9/11 FLIR Infrared Camera proves NIST and 9/11 Commission Lies

Originally posted by oz1337
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

This "Conspiracy" has been debunked ...

Popular Mechanics Debunk 9/11 Myth

Enjoy reading

oz1337

"Melted" Steel Claim: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC." FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength — and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks." "Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat. But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F. "The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

Actually it proves something..without them even realizing. There WAS molten steel. It is there for all to see on footage and photographs. Where did it come from? This is where fact and fiction are melded to throw us off the scent. And before you say Aluminum, it does not glow red as the video clearly shows.

Originally posted by oz1337
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

This "Conspiracy" has been debunked ...

Popular Mechanics Debunk 9/11 Myth

Enjoy reading

oz1337

Here's the problem.
This link does not even begin to answer any of the more profounding questions about 9/11 though that still remain to this day.. The fact that structural failure is a "domino" effect when you are dealing with massive buildings like this, I can understand that. IMO, that really wasn't ever in question here. What IS still in question is what caused the structural failure in the first place that kicked off this domino effect. IMO, That has never been definitively answered.

That Popular Mechanics story/article does not even begin to address some of these really confounding questions..

- Why was all traceable aircraft wreckage immediately confiscated by the FBI and why does it have yet to be publicly released? We know that aircraft wreckage was recovered from multiple crash sites. Yet none of the aircraft have ever been publicly verified as actually being the aircraft we have been told they are. We should just believe what we're being told? Why would they not release these parts just to set the record straight? What is so important about keeping all that evidence secret after more than 8 years?

-Why was all video evidence of the Pentagon attack confiscated by the FBI and why have they yet to be publicly released? (The only videos ever released only came forth because they were "leaked" after the government was caught in a blatant lie pending a specific lawsuit). This is one of the most videotaped/surveilled buildings in the country. Yet, there is no evidence that definitively shows what really happened that day. Why hasn't that ever been released? The government was sued when they were caught in a lie regarding a specific FOIA request asking for any video footage of the Pentagon attack. Only after that happened did 2 or 3 of the tapes get released/leaked. But none of these videos even really show what really hit the Pentagon.

-Why were firefighters and others on the ground talking about explosions/explosives and "controlled demolitions"? Some people were injured (killed?) by explosions of some kind in WTC7 long before it collapsed. What caused these explosions?

-Why did WTC7 show all the trademark signs of controlled demolition just as the twin towers did? Why did WTC7 collapse when it wasn't even ever hit or attacked? Why was the fire in WTC7 never extinguished by the fire suppression system?

-Why was the evidence remaining on Pentagon grounds immediately covered up (literally) just after the attack without a more thorough search for parts or other evidence?

-Why has thermite been found on some of the debris?

-What happened to the flight data recorders? (confiscated?)

-President Bush was warned weeks before 9/11 that an attack on American soil was imminent. He was briefed on Bin Laden at least twice before the attack, yet he never took it seriously? Why did he later lie and say he was never briefed on Bin Laden when there is clear video/audio evidence showing that he was? What about the clear ties between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family? Why did Bush stop inquiries into Bin Laden into terrorist connections of the Bin Laden family in 2001?

-Why did the 19 "terrorists" never show up on the aircraft passenger lists?

-The Pentagon anti-aircraft missile batteries were given the "friendly" signal by the "aircraft" before it impacted the building. The only way this could have happened is if this were a military aircraft of some kind disabling the system, not a civilian aircraft.

-Why has alot of these never been mentioned in the official 9/11 commission report? And why has the 9/11 investigation never been re-opened pending all these unanswered questions?

This is just a few of those unanswered questions.

-ChriS

[edit on 10-5-2009 by BlasteR]

Great video.

Clearly the laws of physics were tucked away in the back cupboard when NIST compiled its 'report'. Their a disgrace.

Originally posted by oz1337
This "Conspiracy" has been debunked ...

Popular Mechanics Debunk 9/11 Myth
oz1337

Actually, its 'popular mechanics' thats been debunked. What a bunch of amateurs..

reply to post by Nonchalant



LoL nice one.

They have matched the terrorists DNA to confirm who they where. But he can't tell where they got the source to mach them. To pinpoint who they really where?

That's a fiction and a lie.

And he won't answer the question because he put it in a childish way.

Did they really dust and bag every piece of rubble and dust grain from the WTC to find their DNA. That's sounds a bit fiction if you ask me.

Actually, I think PM provides another little gem.



Ok.. This is part of the plane.. That crashed in the building, where it is claimed that the fires were so hot it weakened steel.

However, there are pics that show molten steel raining down. The official answer is.. It is molten aluminum.. However, I see really very little evidence in this wreckage that the fire was all that hot. I even see traces of paint.

About the angled cuts and whether the one so called 'cherry picked' one was of a lance or torch cut.A lance cuts and leaves tracks straight through the material being cut.With a slight 'drag' which shows the direction of the cut's progress.An angled cut consumes much more time and gas than one straight through,so it must have been done for a reason.This cut clearly shows a partially cut section as well as the slag running along the line of cut on the side.Also note the uneven amount of slag,all of which tell tales not really subject to multiple explanations.What would be needed is an actual investigation which would answer in no uncertain terms what actual chemical and other traces remain.The cover up and destruction of evidence is the biggest smoking gun.And these apologists,too.Do ya think s/he is paid by the word or post?

Excellent video and great explainations in it. This video along with the other 9/11 information out - proves it was a complete inside job.

S and F

Originally posted by Taxi-DriverIf this picture would have been taken just after the towers fell....Possibly.

BUT

It was a cherry-picked photo out of a set.. which included THIS pic as well.

Cherry picked? What about these?

procision-auto.com...
procision-auto.com...
procision-auto.com...

Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
Actually, I think PM provides another little gem.

Yes, that part is Strange Coincidence #119:

119: Only existing photo of 'Flight 175' windowed fuselage atop WTC5, featured in Popular Mechanics, was not taken until Oct 25, and was found ON TOP of cladding from the collapse of WTC1, not under it, 6 feet from the roof access door (FEMA)

www.nc911truth.org...

Original FEMA photo

Keep on abidin' LA

reply to post by VelmaLu


I always believed that some of the people who jumped were suffocating from the smoke and not being burned by fire. Slow suffocating death, or quick painless jump?
Of course some also were probably terrified and panicked.

Kevin Cosgrove 911 Call

Little by little people are starting to question the official story. There's people I know who 3 years ago thought I was an absolute nutcase conspiracy freak who are waking up.

The inside job theory will never go mainstream it will always be "flaming jet fuel flowed through the elevator shafts and caused a pancake collapse blah blah blah".

I didn't believe it the second I found out what happened and I will never believe the "terrorists" did it.

reply to post by Shane Void
Yes Shane, then there was the Jim Gartenberg "core blown out" on-air phone call to WABC news.

reply to post by turbofan

This is good,thanks.The second of the three pictures show what I analyze to be a side by side comparison of a torch cut after the fact and a thermate,demolition cut.The cuts on the after,on the right and not having a red arrow,are straight through as evidenced by the small overcut at bottom.Also look at the rust or staining,they're different.The demo ones are rougher and the slag is flowing in a bunch of different ways.I also ponder why one would be uncut in the demo to have to be cut later.The ignition may have been faulty or it was left for minimal support until the coup de gras.Conjecture? No.Indications we need a real investigation.The accused must not have any doubt of innocence and there's plenty.


[edit on 10-5-2009 by trueforger]

Originally posted by bl4ke360
reply to post by Taxi-Driver

 

You seem to have quite a track record of "debunking" 9/11 threads, for over two years I see. Disinfo agent much? Evidence?:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I doubt that any ordinary skeptic would waste 2 years coming here and attempt to prove 9/11 theories false, what do you even gain by it? Do you seriously think anyone listens to your poor logic? Guess what, my logic says that your under the payroll.

To Truthers: Anyone who hasn't spent a lot of time researching 9/11 and doesn't agree with truther canards is a "Sheeple."

Anyone that HAS spent a lot of time researching 9/11 and doesn't agree with the truther canards is a "Shill."

Why is it so hard to believe that people with any modicum of research skills find these inside job theories laughable at best, sinster at worst.

So, you believe I work for the USA because I won't drink the snake-oil?

If logic follows.... Just Whom do you work for? Doing damage control for Radical Muslims? Shifting blame in attempt to fracture American society?

I mean with the anonymity of the intratubes, you could be freakin' KSM's nephew typing away from Islamabad, for all we know.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver

FDNY knew it was compromised and created a collapse zone around the building 4 hours before it finally fell.

To say WTC 7 fell due to demolition is saying the FDNY was involved with the mass murder of their fallen brothers.. There is no other way for the WTC 7 to be a demolition event and the FDNY not to be a part of it. And for you to accuse the men who lost so much that day to be an intregal part of this snake-oil conspiracy makes me sad...real sad.

Dont even try and elude that anyone thinks the FDNY was part of it. NO one would ever think that this was a comment to create a reaction for a poster to pull back.

How else would it have worked? What does a "cordened off collapse zone" mean to you? Who was in charge of inforcing the collapse zone? FDNY was.

What the heck are they supposed to do after two buildings fell and 343 of the finest people the world has to offer died? They had no clue WTF was going on and had better have created a safe zone.

Why? If there was (what did that other poster say?) NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER to WTC 7. Why was a collapse zone needed? Firefighers WANTED to save WTC & but were called out due to visible bulging of the structure. It was deemed unsound and a collapse risk just after noon on Sept 11 2001.

You think Chief Nigro was a part of the conspiracy?

I will tell you what all firefighters are of the brotherhood and my brothers that day came back and stated it looked like a controlled demolition and had the look on there faces of total disbelief. FDNY see it all and do it all, there is nothing in this world that would place that look on those faces in the Naudet film unless something happened that they felt was extraordinary.

And big ass jumbo jets crashing into skyscrapers is no longer extraordinary?

FDNY firefighers know what happened that day... they might have described what they saw as being "LIKE" a controlled demo... but the overwhelming majority don't think it actually WAS a controlled demolition. Plus where is the sound? You realize thermite theories were created to attempt to "theory away" this little factual inconvenience.

I hardly ever post in this forum (I joined ATS because of 9/11) I get so frustrated and if I think too much about 9/11 I get really depressed and when I see pictures of those men covered in dust and the look of seeing hell on there faces makes me weep.

Agreed. Same here, I think their memory deserves better than some internet spam game.

You want snake oil? Go to the FED they are selling it by the barrel.

Yep, and so is 9/11 truth... I drink neither.

Jet fuel ony burns so hot, unless you give it more oxygen, all the jet fuel was gone in matter of minutes, proof woman standing in blown out section.

If it was structural failure due to damange of the supporting collums, there would have been a hinge effect, this being the collapse of damaged area first, the intact structure acting as a hinge.This then directing structure from hinge point to direction gravitiy is pulling, in respect to hinge.
I sure any engineer would also state that the possibility of all the structural members to reach monent of failure at the exact same instance, would be questionable in at least one of buildings.

One of the things that the people that demo Buildings worry about is the hinge effect, unless it is a wanted effect, in use of control of direction of collapse.

When speaking in terms of heat look at these building you can see stored potential energy just sitting there. The falling of these building would cause release of this potential energy turn a certain amout of it into heat, the release of the potential.

Heck if all you need to take down a steel building with such precision is some jet fuel and piezo ignitor, dual function trasmitter, could start new demo Biz. You would not need explosive license and I already have Demo license. Just need to get performace record going.

This is possible scenario " We can't do that the American public will be up in arms, The other guy says, What the American public is so stupid ( most of) we can televise the whole thing, Back to other guy What about the Israelis, Other guy don't worry they know all about it, and don't foget to tell all your friends to buy those airlines short, And your buddies at Emron they are going be happy as hell " could go on and on.
What happen to trillions of missing money and the trillions after9/11, where or the people who bought Airline short the F.B.I. promissed to find, so many unanswered question.

What we need is Millions person March on Washington to demand full dislosure, Must be peaceful and I will pack lunch for everyone.

So what do we have.
open check book for Governmet
Loss of constitution, rights
No more question of missing trillions" oh we write lots of checks can't keep up with all of them?
More missing trillions
Government wire tap abuse
Get the oil deals in afganistan Iraq, Kill hussein we gave him chance to roll-over and he was to well protect for the jackals to get to him.

They think were stupid, maybe we are, but all the stuff they are hiding has nothing to do with national secruity, it's for all the Rats that will be exposed in Government.

And that was pretty hot could had wiener roast or toasted some marshmallows.

Originally posted by SilentRunning
I have a theory that i never found a trace of until now (correct me if i am wrong).

(...snip...)

If during construction (or later), you directly implement autodestruction devices, you gain control of the consequences by avoiding too much hassles and costs, by camouflaging the "removal" of the building within the accident itself. A convenient way also to make the insurance pay for the whole destruction, not only for the initial damages.

I agree but go a little further. Suppose the reasons you proposed above weren't the real reasons those auto-destruct devices were put in place. Suppose those reasons you proposed were simply used as a cover story fed to the agents/soldiers who questioned why they were being ordered to place explosives in those towers?

My thinking goes like this: Secret cabal decides to orchestrate 9/11. You need fall guys (willing terrorists who think they are doing it for Osama Bin Laden), you need insurance that it will occur (disrupt FBI investigations vis-a-via Sibel Edmond's discoveries, war games distract military, rig buildings with explosives).

That last part is where your reasons (what I call a "cover story") come into play. Any agent/soldier who is given a mission to rig the WTC with explosives is going to need to be convinced as to why. So you tell them the "realities" the explosives could prevent. You tell them it'll save money, help the nation, but you also tell them it will save lives.

Soldier asks, "How will rigging building save lives?" Cover story says: "In 1993 the terrorists tried to take out a corner of the bottom of the building with the intention that the building would fall over like a tree. Not only would that destroy the building and kill everyone inside, but that building would fall over several city blocks killing untold more civilians and property damage. These devices will bring down a doomed building in a controlled fashion saving lives and property."

Soldier buys it, accepts mission.

But this brings up 1 final problem. After 9/11 occurs and the soldier clearly sees that the buildings were brought down for no reason, the soldier becomes a liability. The soldier(s) obviously must die in some aircraft accident during a training mission or something. Perhaps even before 9/11 occurs?

Anyways, I like to see someone thinking along the same lines.

i diddnt need to see this to know about american involvement in 9/11

but hanks for opening the eyes of these people

Originally posted by googolplex
Jet fuel ony burns so hot, unless you give it more oxygen, all the jet fuel was gone in matter of minutes, proof woman standing in blown out section.

If it was structural failure due to damange of the supporting collums, there would have been a hinge effect, this being the collapse of damaged area first, the intact structure acting as a hinge.This then directing structure from hinge point to direction gravitiy is pulling, in respect to hinge.
I sure any engineer would also state that the possibility of all the structural members to reach monent of failure at the exact same instance, would be questionable in at least one of buildings.

One of the things that the people that demo Buildings worry about is the hinge effect, unless it is a wanted effect, in use of control of direction of collapse.

When speaking in terms of heat look at these building you can see stored potential energy just sitting there. The falling of these building would cause release of this potential energy turn a certain amout of it into heat, the release of the potential.

Would this fit into your hinge effect theory. and as to the stored energy, looks like a few million lbs of stored energy about to release it on the lower floors one at a time....think they can hold it up?

[edit on 10-5-2009 by uncommon-sense]

reply to post by uncommon-sense

Yes this does, only question is why it did not continue, it almost seems as if any controling factors were not nologer present to allow contiued tumble. Like the seat was pulled out from under it.