reply to post by Vitchilo
In fact, it kinda did.
The whole constitution is based on natural law. Natural law is God's law. There are certain laws which govern the entire universe, and just as Thomas
Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence, there are laws which govern in the affairs of men which are "the laws of nature and of nature's
Thanks for proving my point so well.
"In fact, it kinda did."
Is the kind of qualifying statement that can easily be translated to "In fact it Kinda of Didn't"
The only mention of G-d in the Constitution was using the Christian Calendar to make note of the date it was signed!
Nature's G-d appared in the Decleration of Independence...that you "Kind of" imagine they meant Jesus Christ and or Yaweh, which Christians view as
a trinity of Father, Son and Holy Ghost, that Jews and Muslims see only the Father figure of and reject the Son and Holy Ghost part in an argument
that rages 2000 years later in war and violence...
That our For very read Forefathers did not want spilling over into the Government or it's functions or how it functions.
Other wise the Decleration of Independence would have kind of read "Under the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" instead of Nature's God and Natural Law.
True to Charachter though when ever the riddled enigma of G-d is mentioned in to anything it kind of does set off this silly argument by so many
people of various sects and faiths all purporting that they know precisely what was meant but not specifically written that not only leads to the
contention that causes Christians to fight amongst themselves, Jews to fight amongst themselves, and Muslims to fight amongst themselves, and between
the three, often tragically and often violently to this very day, and there is no kind of there, or need to qualify it, and that my friend is why
State and Church were seperated and absolutely no mention of the Christian, Jewish, Hebrew or Muslim G-d was made in the Decleration of Independence
or the Constitution besides the dating of the Document by noting which year in the A.D. system of dating that was universally in use to denote date.
When the religious violate that clearly stated principal as founding Father and President Adams wrote in the Treaty of Trippoli only a few years later
"We are by no means a Christian Nation" that Congress passed without exception, they do in fact bog down government and taint it's effectiveness
and cohesiveness with that argument about defining G-d that is so violently evident in a world that practically does nothing but fight as to what G-d
meant, all the while kind of thinking that what ever very loose interpetation that allowed them to kind of think they are right, is worth causing
chaos to convince others.
That's what they wanted to avoid, because it has no function within Government and Nature's Law truly is survival of the fittest, because when you
put down the gun, the bible, your house made of straw, sticks or bricks, and your Big Mac and go out into nature what you are going to see is natures
law, where each living thing is designed to sustain, and enrich, not dictate to any other living thing.
That's nature's law and if you doubt, leave everything else, take your Bible out into nature, show the bear it that wants to eat you, and it truly
will help you about as much as it did the true Christians when they died violent deaths in the Roman Arenas.
State and Church aren't kind of meant to be seperate, it's written in black and white, because the founders were very learned and read men, more
than intellignet enough to formulate their precise thoughts into what would be a legal and binding document meant to disuade the "Kind of" crowd
from imagining anything else being implied.
That is why Church needs to be kept out of State, so State can function in a natural way to promote the good and harmony of all, and there is no
harmony in the religious world. Israel always wants weapons even though the "Meek shall inherit the Earth", Christians always want everyone to kind
of see things their way even though the 500 some odd subsects can't get one another to kind of see things their way as they kind of try to impose
their views on the matter on everyone else, and the Muslims who kind of can't agree with one another either, kind of basically agree they don't like
Christians kind of forcing them to adopt the concept of the Trinity even though they see Jesus as a prophet and like and follow his teachings, who
often worry the kind of better force the Christians to adopt that, because they kind of think the Christians are always forcing them to adopt that,
while the Israelis kind of arm themselves to the nines for the armeggedon argument all this argueing is kind of sure to bring under Natures Law which
is Survival of the fittest...
Me I am not kinda of like our forefathers, I am like my forefathers who no matter what their spiritual beliefs were did in fact want State and Church
seperate which is why they made NO attempt to make either inclusive to the other, by kinda of trying to define the meaning of G-d, but just simply
mentioned that something bigger part of Nature exists that we all live under, and the definition of what that is, is not a function of State.
There are no two ifs ands or buts about that and while you kind of think it's important to redress what you would like to imagine was an error,
ommission, or discretion in a Legal Binding Document, to kind of suit your veiw as to why you Kind of think they meant different...
Our Treasury is being robbed by real not kind of crooks,
We are embroiled in two bankrupting wars that are being fought with religious undertones involved.
We are finding our constitutional liberties stripped of us by people who imagine it's what G-d wants and far too often sell it as what G-d wants
So just like Justinian discovered you can be a dictator by putting off your dictatorial actions on a diety not subject to the democratic process, that
you can not engage in a democratic process, but simply must follow the edicts of that aren't just kind of subject to a whole lot of interpetation by
those who want to usurp them for their advantage but are interpeted loosely by people who want to dictate who naturally aren't up for the task of
being dictators when they say kind of, because even they know its a poorly substantiated argument that only works for them or the like minded and only
against the weak minded.
What the forefathers all believed is Religion corrupts government, and government corrupts religion when you mix the two together, and there is no
kind of involved there.
It's in the Constitution in Black and White.
Democracy isn't a religion, it's a process of seeking a majority oppinion through a process of free and unfettered speech and the exchanging of any
idea where no idea is considered to be "Blasphemous" by the kind of interpedation of someone who believes in something that is not there in person
to speak freely in their own tongue with their own words to sway those of differing oppinions to forge a concensus that not only then creates the
states wisest way forward, but also gaurantees the right of dissenters to dissent using free speech while being obligated to follow the laws that the
true democratic process always allows them to keep voicing their dissent to in order to modify and change laws that are unjust, stupid, or hurt the
state instead of kind of helping it when a majority first decided to try it.
The singular notion of a Christian Nation disrupts and destroys that entire process and principals and I sure do not want to live in a Christian
Nation but a democratic one where Church and State are seperate and if you need a Bible to tell you that when you steal something from someone else or
hurt someone else for your own vein and selfish reasons then chances are you aren't going to stop doing those things with a Bible and reading the
Bible but opt for the it's ok clause...I will ask my savior for foregiveness.
Please stop trying to steal my constitution, and my rights, and my representative democracy...because you kind of think Bible and G-d and all it's
ok. So you prove my point that even armed with a Bible it doesn't mean much to those carrying it except as a justification to steal and hurt others
which in there estimation is foregivable to G-d by G-d.
Which then leaves you stuck with Natures Law of survival of the fittest.
The Christian Kingdom you imagine you want, the Bible claims is in that G-d's heaven and you have to die naturally as a human being under nature's
laws to get there, it can not be created in Washington D.C., and our forefathers had no intention of creating it in Washington D.C., but instead they
chose to found the United States of America a democratic nation dedicated to the right to self determination, personal liberty and free speech, and I
really wish those who kind of think they imagine G-d has a better plan would first stop trying to kill each other and tear nature up with this
constant violence because they can't agree with what G-ds better plan is.
The Senate and Congress are not seminaries, they are places for men and women of all races, walks, faiths and strata of society to come together and
speak their minds to establish a majority oppinion that allows people to Unite based on common protective and empowering principals not dictatorial
ones imposed by a diety not in presence or part of that process.
Thanks for doing a great job of proving my point.
[edit on 9/5/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]
[edit on 9/5/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]