British Muslims have more faith in UK than Britons, study finds

reply to post by Nammu


I am what the Germans might call a "Bauernluemmel", a "bumpkin". I come from Norfolk, the bread basket of England and one of the few counties that has historically stood up against the government of the day.

Boudica, thorn in the side of the Roman invaders, was from "Norfolk" - surely one of the greatest "Britons" ever to have lived? (see en.wikipedia.org...)

Recently (well, 16th century), there was Robert Kett who led a rebellion against the powers that be (see en.wikipedia.org...)

Even more recently, another "Norfolk Boy" came to the rescue of the English, Vice Admiral Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson, 1st Duke of Bronte, was born in Burnham Thorpe.

People like to paint Norfolk as full of "retards and betrothed brothers and sisters" but if that keeps the "townies out" then that is just fine! I love Norfolk and everything it has stood for since the Romans tried to subjugate us. I am glad to use the "Royal We" when I write of Norfolk - If the government leaves us alone then we'll leave them alone!

Originally posted by Nammu
reply to post by Freeborn

 

But it's never the fault of British Muslims. That's mostly white anglo-saxon portayal causing the problem. I love chatting with British Asians about things like the police dog that got removed from the police campaign cause it offended one shopkeeper, or stopping kids singing the 3 little pigs at nursery cause it might offend them, or people saying 'happy holidays' instead of 'merry christmas', or even that one today with the dentist. Every muslim i've discussed these with think it's hilarious that anyone thinks any of that is a good idea. At the same time though they're scared that this is the way they're being viewed. Like everyone has to walk on eggshells around them.

Sorry but it is frequently the fault of Muslims.
I know quite a few Muslims, some have become quite Anglicised / Westernised and tend to find such thing's hilarious but are aware of the implications, however, the majority seem to cling to the traditions and customs of their country of origin and try to recreate it in their own secluded enclaves.
In fact some of them are trying to impose thier lifestyle and culture etc upon us.
This leads to mistrust on both sides.
This has led to a sharp increase in support for Islamic fundamentalism and extremism which gives rise to such nonsense of this Dentist.

I hate generalising but increasingly find myself doing so with Muslims.
I know it is wrong but the constant unwillingness of the majority of Muslims to accept any responsiblility for the actions of their fellow Muslims just further alienates me from them every day.
Very, very sad but an increasing sentiment amongst large sections of the British populace.

reply to post by SugarCube


Don't you all eat babies and practice Satanism in Norfolk? LOL.

Only part I know is Norwich, far too laid back to be a city!

Originally posted by Nammu
Personally, i've never met a Muslim that's on benefits, but I have met plenty of white athiest neds that can work fine but just don't bother.

Yes,I'm sure not all muslims (or atheists) are the same - to generalise about either group seems a little ignorant.


Having said that, this report is quite disturbing:

Article from British Broadsheet newspaper 'The Times' :

Almost half of Britain’s mosques are under the control of a hardline Islamic sect whose leading preacher loathes Western values and has called on Muslims to “shed blood” for Allah, an investigation by The Times has found.

Riyadh ul Haq, who supports armed jihad and preaches contempt for Jews, Christians and Hindus, is in line to become the spiritual leader of the Deobandi sect in Britain. The ultra-conservative movement, which gave birth to the Taleban in Afghanistan, now runs more than 600 of Britain’s 1,350 mosques, according to a police report seen by The Times.

Seventeen of Britain’s 26 Islamic seminaries are run by Deobandis and they produce 80 per cent of home-trained Muslim clerics. Many had their studies funded by local education authority grants. The sect, which has significant representation on the Muslim Council of Britain, is at its strongest in the towns and cities of the Midlands and northern England.

Figures supplied to The Times by the Lancashire Council of Mosques reveal that 59 of the 75 mosques in five towns – Blackburn, Bolton, Preston, Oldham and Burnley – are Deobandi-run.

A commentator on religious radicalism in Pakistan, where Deobandis wield significant political influence, told The Times that “blind ignorance” on the part of the Government in Britain had allowed the Deobandis to become the dominant voice of Islam in Britain’s mosques.

Khaled Ahmed said: “The UK has been ruined by the puritanism of the Deobandis. You’ve allowed the takeover of the mosques. You can’t run multiculturalism like that, because that’s a way of destroying yourself. In Britain, the Deobandi message has become even more extreme than it is in Pakistan. It’s mind-boggling.”

www.timesonline.co.uk...


As is this documentary:

A Dispatches reporter attends mosques run by organisations whose public faces are presented as moderate and finds preachers condemning integration into British society, condemning democracy and praising the Taliban for killing British soldiers…

Dispatches has investigated a number of mosques run by high profile national organisations that claim to be dedicated to moderation and dialogue with other faiths. But an undercover reporter joined worshippers to find a message of religious bigotry and extremism being preached.

He captures chilling sermons in which Saudi-trained preachers proclaim the supremacy of Islam, preach hatred for non-Muslims and for Muslims who do not follow their extreme beliefs - and predict a coming jihad. "An army of Muslims will arise," announces one preacher. Another preacher said British Muslims must "dismantle" British democracy - they must "live like a state within a state" until they are "strong enough to take over."

The investigation reveals Saudi Arabian universities are recruiting young Western Muslims to train them in their extreme theology, then sending them back to the West to spread the word. And the Dispatches reporter discovers that British Muslims can ask for fatwas, religious rulings, direct from the top religious leader in Saudi Arabia, the Grand Mufti.

Saudi-trained preachers are also promoted in DVDs and books on sale at religious centres and sermons broadcast on websites. These publications and webcasts disseminate beliefs about women such as: "Allah has created the woman deficient, her intellect is incomplete", and girls: "By the age of 10 if she doesn’t wear hijab, we hit her," and there’s an extreme hostility towards homosexuals.

video.google.co.uk...


And this article from Snopes:
www.snopes.com...


Of course I'm sure many muslims are kind,peace loving individuals who do not suffer the delusion that they are somehow more special/superior to other human beings but there is definitely a percentage of people within the religion that have absolute contempt for the notion of intergration into secular society.



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by Freeborn


HaHa... Actually, it is the "Wicker Man", we burn criminals and politicians in a giant pyre to ensure our freedom from tyranny. We have the blood of the Iceni, Angles, Saxons and Vikings in our veins and so can be a rowdy bunch when we have an axe in our hands.

If you want to start a rebellion, start it in Norfolk!

reply to post by SugarCube


Can't fault ya!

It seems there is an unprecedented supply of corrupt and inept politicians in Westminster at present.

Rest assured if the good people of Norfolk will rise up against these criminals and tyrants then the people from the wilds of County Durham will rise in support.
English and British blood still runs true here too.

Originally posted by SugarCube
If the government leaves us alone then we'll leave them alone!

But isn't that the major issue here? From news reports and what is posted here on ATS, your government isn't leaving you alone. Instead it is intruding more and more into your lives each day - the so-called "nanny state".

Just like the scorn heaped by foreigners upon U.S. voters for electing Bush, who in the UK keeps putting these people in office?

[edit on 5/8/2009 by centurion1211]

reply to post by centurion1211


Well, strictly speaking, the UK population didn't put Gordon Brown into office. Of course, the old die-hards will say, "you vote for party policies rather than individual leaders" but that is hooey when the policies are up the swanny and there is a clear mandate from leading personalities (?) in directing the parties.

When Tony Blair couldn't resist the beckoning riches of the tour circuit any more, the reins were simply handed over to Gordon Brown based on their little luncheon agreement way back when. Nobody public vote was ever put to him.

New Labour are not the first ones to be guilty of this of course, John Major was an opportunist aswell, however, the bad taste of ever mounting Labour failures has *seemed* to coincide with Brown's residency. This is not specific to Brown's premiership, rather, the chickens are simply coming home to roost.

Imagine if McCcain had have been voted in as President, then you had to have that awful Sarah Palin stepping in halfway through term? Whooah! That is kind of where we are in the UK.

I'm a Lancashire lad, but I live in the Netherlands. I just been speaking to an old friend from back home. He is originally from Pakistan.

He told me, and I have to agree with him after traveling through a few Muslim countries, that the reason why immigrants love Britain, EU and USA, is because they don't have to stand in line for 10hrs for a train ticket or, a drivers permit etc, etc.

Compared to some of the places these people come from, the UK is a paradise. Albeit cold and wet.

Meanwhile the UK natives, are bombarded by media stories of how bad things are.

It is the same all over Europe. I have lived in France, Portugal, Italy, Belgium and now Holland.

Everywhere are stories blaming immigrants for just about everything and at
the same time scare stories about the Ultra right.

Britain IS Great, but not United. It is a beautiful and diverse country with top people from every colour, creed and gender. When my kid finishes school, me, the Sicilian wife and Cloggie son, are moving to the UK.

And woe be tied any chav that gives me grief.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Just like the scorn heaped by foreigners upon U.S. voters for electing Bush, who in the UK keeps putting these people in office?

We do not elect our Prime Minister or government - selected by the Monarch. We are a Parliamentary democracy.

So the socialists have finally had their way, only 36% of Britons actually feel loyal towards their own country.

The systematic destruction of that country was completed some time ago, now the librals are just kicking the corpse.

Here in the US you may get some similar figures in California, that's what a left wing mindset does for you.

As for British Muslims having more loyalty to to the UK, the last England versus Pakistan cricket match I saw featured thousands of "British" muslims waving Pakistani flags and cheering on the opposing team.

Perhaps a better question for them would have been "Do you feel more loyal to the UK or a foreign nation?".

Last I heard, the ethnic British are emigrating in droves to Australia, Canada, and the USA.

Truly a failed nation.

Originally posted by Retseh
As for British Muslims having more loyalty to to the UK, the last England versus Pakistan cricket match I saw featured thousands of "British" muslims waving Pakistani flags and cheering on the opposing team.

So, the citizens of Irish decent are now traitors if they following an Irish sporting team? Your opinion is utterly pathetic. Extremely uneducated and facetious to suggest sport defines if you are loyal to a nation.

Heck, may be we should carpet bomb Scotland for not flying the Union Jack at football games

Originally posted by Freeborn
I hate generalising but increasingly find myself doing so with Muslims.
I know it is wrong but the constant unwillingness of the majority of Muslims to accept any responsiblility for the actions of their fellow Muslims just further alienates me from them every day.
Very, very sad but an increasing sentiment amongst large sections of the British populace.

I'd agree with your sentiments there -heres how some muslim extremists regard their fellow Britons:
www.youtube.com...



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by centurion1211
Just like the scorn heaped by foreigners upon U.S. voters for electing Bush, who in the UK keeps putting these people in office?

We do not elect our Prime Minister or government - selected by the Monarch. We are a Parliamentary democracy.

So, are you saying then that your only recourse when you don't like particular laws is to leave the UK? You don't have any other way to try and get them changed? If so, sucks to be you, and as bad as it sometimes seems here, sure glad we never went that route.

reply to post by centurion1211


Well, we can, but we have to trust politicians to represent our views

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Well, we can, but we have to trust politicians to represent our views

Then we truly are in the same boat after all.

I was hoping that at least one of us actually had a chance ...

[edit on 5/8/2009 by centurion1211]

reply to post by karl 12


That video gave me a headache! haha

As a muslim I would condemn any person that claims to be muslim and comits evil acts.

That man is a fool.



[edit on 8-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by Nammu

British Muslims have more faith in UK than Britons, study finds

www.timesonline.co.uk

British Muslims identify with Britain far more than the general public and have more confidence in the country’s institutions, according to research published today.

The results of the survey, which showed that 77 per cent of British Muslims were loyal to Britain compared with 36 per cent of the general public, challenge a perception that the community is less patriotic than the country at large. It also recorded that the community had more confidence in British courts, elections, financial

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
news.bbc.co.uk

The key word in the above quote is identify. But really, what does the identity of this country consist of? we know our government is full of donkey's who are all on the same side for the same goal - ripping us off. We know our royal family is far from perfect and use alot of the tax payers money for over-the-top expense's such as £900 for a bottle of champange. Our school's are failing our youth, hospital's barely coping and a justice system that doesnt have the capacity to serve justice. Its a mess and nothing to be proud of.
As for loyalty? i have just about enough to keep me here + i'm not skilled enough to move anywhere else

Although i will say this....I hope england win next world cup

reply to post by Nammu


I'm not surprised. We have a self-serving government paying themselves insane amounts of money for doing less work than the average citizen, using and abusing tax-payers money as a piggy bank, instituting draconian security laws, restricting rights and freedoms, back-tracking on stupid decisions only when they know they don't have public support...

Need I go on?

Our government is a joke, an embarrassment.
But it is still better than governments of many other nations. That's not forgiving or excusing their abuse of power, it's just stating the fact that many other governments of other regions are far worse.

It seems every government and leadership is corrupt, we just have different ways of calling it. In the west we like to cloak it in spin or just getting on with business, whereas other nations just deny it or simply refuse to be held accountable.

Not that the British government will be held at all accountable for their abuses of power of course

As a Brit born and raised, I have zero faith in my government. While it is better than living in many places, there are also many places I'd rather live.

Originally posted by SugarCube
Boudica, thorn in the side of the Roman invaders, was from "Norfolk" - surely one of the greatest "Britons" ever to have lived? (see en.wikipedia.org...)

I'm sorry, but Boudica was one of the worst generals of all time.

10,000 Romans vs 250,000 Britons = 80,000 dead Britons and a nation enslaved. She sucked.

Caratacus is a good one, as, even though he was defeated, put up strong resistance and when he was betrayed, gave such good account of himself in Rome, he was not strangled at a triumph (unlike Vercingetorix, the French national hero of the age) but instead allowed to live peaceably in the city.

And if you want to look up to anyone, make it Arminius, or Hermann the German, as he kicked the hell out of three entire Roman legions, and basically is the reason we don't sound like the French today. Go Arminius!

History lesson aside:

There is nothing to be loyal to. I am a monarchist, but that isn't what this is about. This is about the governmental party in power being a bunch of corrupt, incompetent, selfish and downright villainous bastards. The same group who are actually turning this nation into a festering #-heap.

And what do we do? Bleat and moan. Why? Because we've had it our own way for far too long. Since the Empire, English has been the world's primary language, and British armies have stomped face over everyone at some point or another. Vast wealth has come and gone, and now the people are like the Romans after the Fall of Rome to the barbarian hordes.

We got fat, lazy and complacent, and now we are reaping the fruits of our 'labours'...because history repeats itself, and always will.