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Muslim dentist 'refused to treat female patients unless they wore Islamic dress'

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posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by berenike
1) I am allowed to be offended. His culture may allow him to offend me, but my culture allows me to take offense if I choose to do so.


offense in western society is one thing, offense in his society is far different, with more dire consequence, because their values are based firmly in their religion's texts. ours is secular.


2) I cannot fault him for the culture he was born into - I can fault him if he chooses to adopt a principle that is blatantly at fault


it is not his choice. allah makes his demands very clear. muslims take those demands seriously. allah cannot be the one at fault.


3) He is living in the West, if he expects a share of understanding from us then it would be nice if he'd meet us half way and afford us a little understanding too.


what we think would be 'nice' is of no consequence here.


As far as tolerance and inclusion go, they work both ways. If this man want westerners to tolerate him and his behaviour perhaps he should lead by example and try being tolerant with us - the society he is living and working in.


it would be offensive if i explained why this is not the case.


He must have known before he trained to be a dentist that he would have to treat women. Better for all of us if he'd chosen to be a proctologist.


it is not his fault that there are some who have chosen to not submit to islam. he has and his faith guides him. nothing more, nothing less.




posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Longy4eva
For all those saying 'If he wants to ruin his private business, its his loss' and 'his business, his choice' read the Post. this is an NHS funded dentist, this is funded by the NHS, and therefore every taxpayer. We're paying for him to force his religion onto other people. Remember that, kids.


in a direct way, he is not forcing his religion on anyone.

he is not making anyone wear a hijab or accept islam, but if you choose to dress properly, he will treat you.

what about nudists?

what if a dentist refused to treat someone who walked into his office nude?

probably not the same, i suppose...



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by DohBama
 


Thanks for taking the time to debate with me.

East is East and West is West and never the twain huh?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by berenike
 



i'm not here to debate, just participating in the discussion.

i find this topic very interesting.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama

Originally posted by Longy4eva
For all those saying 'If he wants to ruin his private business, its his loss' and 'his business, his choice' read the Post. this is an NHS funded dentist, this is funded by the NHS, and therefore every taxpayer. We're paying for him to force his religion onto other people. Remember that, kids.


in a direct way, he is not forcing his religion on anyone.

he is not making anyone wear a hijab or accept islam, but if you choose to dress properly, he will treat you.

what about nudists?

what if a dentist refused to treat someone who walked into his office nude?

probably not the same, i suppose...




What if he's a nudist...its against the law...FULL STOP..

Your having a difficult time accepting something which you feel is not directed at you but offends you.

Now in all seriousness, we cant all be stupid or ignorant in here, in seeing what exactly you are trying to achieve, right ?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by tristar
What if he's a nudist...its against the law...FULL STOP..

Your having a difficult time accepting something which you feel is not directed at you but offends you.


i stated in my post that it was probably not the same.

what if a dentist refused to treat a patient bedecked with swastikas?

or attired somehow extremely offensive?

would that be similar?

what is this that offends me? i dont know what you're talking about.




Now in all seriousness, we cant all be stupid or ignorant in here, in seeing what exactly you are trying to achieve, right ?


i couldnt help but notice no one else stepping up to defend the dentist.

you dont mind, do you?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by Alvatore
With just one case, you'all had started bombarding Islam with harsh criticism.

So intelligent this humans are nowadays.



This is just ANOTHER case, not the ONLY case of a certain segment of the muslim population who is trying to exert it's control over non-muslims. This is simply not acceptable regardless of who's doing it.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Other religions do not punish questioning, examination and rejection with death, other religions are free to be questioned, criticised, lampooned, and rejected.


Oh I'm sure a few did -just look at the Christianity in the Middle ages.


Others do not, others see religion as intended to civilise humans and provide comfort and wisdom.


Yes, I was only expressing my own opinion -I'm sure those indoctrinated and conditioned since birth to unquestioningly accept theological opinion and/or superstitious mythology don't feel the same way.

At the end of the day islam is just a religious sect -no different to all the many other groups out there - perhaps the only defining factor is that they all promote 'in group delusions of grandeur' and separate mankind into warring cults (thus making humanity easier to control and manipulate).



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by DohBama
 


Pardon my choice of words and forgive me for trying to be polite.

'Debate' - according to my dictionary:

'formal discussion, an open argument' - ok the second half of that definition seems to apply here.

'to discuss, to consider' - spot on, then.


Good luck with the rest of your discussion.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
Oh I'm sure a few did -just look at the Christianity in the Middle ages.


not supported by doctrine, but rather by human ambition.


At the end of the day islam is just a religious sect -no different to all the many other groups out there - perhaps the only defining factor is that they all promote 'in group delusions of grandeur' and separate mankind into warring cults (thus making humanity easier to control and manipulate).


islam is very unique and by far different from these other well known religions. there is little comparison.

the differences are easily presented for impartial examination by anyone, however that examination would be very offensive to believers and most especially to non-believers, so i will not bring them up here.

that would be somewhat off-topic and definitely inappropriate for this forum.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by berenike
reply to post by DohBama
 


Pardon my choice of words and forgive me for trying to be polite.

'Debate' - according to my dictionary:

'formal discussion, an open argument' - ok the second half of that definition seems to apply here.

'to discuss, to consider' - spot on, then.


Good luck with the rest of your discussion.


oh no, no problem at all, i just found that it is important to word posts carefully here at ats... ambiguity often leads to some participants to become unhinged, i appreciate your sentiment.

i'm simply being careful to color between the lines.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
i have other commitments, i will try to come back here and continue this discussion.

it is very important that infidels, especially western infidels read the koran and hadith. it is plainly worded and not a difficult read.


No thanks. I'll just go ahead and not.

Thanks for the invite though. Feel free to read or believe anything you want and I'll do the same.
Nice try at inflaming the thread though




posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Originally posted by Horus12
reply to post by tristar
 


If one does not want to live by western laws, dont live in a western country.



thats your take.

Actually it's not a "take". If you want to live in a certain country, you're bound by it's laws. If you don't want to obey the laws, leave.


in the case of islam, it is far different.

Not at all. Islam isn't any more or less important then any other religion as it incorporates into the laws of various countries.


the western laws and society must be altered to comply with islam.

No they don't.


all must submit to islam, there is no exception.

Oh please

Or what? Will you take away my nintendo


I find your comments amusing as it's very obvious you're simply trying to inflame the thread


You might want to try your comedy routine on your friends before bringing it here though



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123No thanks. I'll just go ahead and not.

Thanks for the invite though. Feel free to read or believe anything you want and I'll do the same.
Nice try at inflaming the thread though



suggesting that westerners read the koran, hadith and know exactly what it really says would 'inflame' the thread?

rejecting knowledge and embracing ignorance is illogical.

is it more comforting to simply not know?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123Oh please

Or what? Will you take away my nintendo


I find your comments amusing as it's very obvious you're simply trying to inflame the thread


You might want to try your comedy routine on your friends before bringing it here though


well, ignorance it is, i see.

and that suits allah just fine.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Originally posted by karl 12
Well, I'd like to hear it anyway.

i have already mentioned that the goal of islam is the submission of all allahs children.

some see this as a blessed, beautiful and positive thing. others do not.


I'm not one of his kids so I'm not interested in obeying his rules. I obey the rules of the country I live in. That's good enough for me.

By the way, I have a cartoon of mohammad as a screen saver on my computer but it's ok because I don't believe in islam. I couldn't do that in an country governed by islam because of their laws. Since I'm not, I can


[edit on 9-5-2009 by jfj123]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Originally posted by Laurauk

The he should only offer his services to those within his religion, if he is refusing to treat anyone, who refuse to wear the attire he requires. He then should let those who run the NHS know that he no longer wishes to treat patients who refuse to wear the attire also. We will see how long before he claims racism or discrimination.



who is anyone to tell someone how they should practise their faith?

Well to start, nobody is telling him that. He is however part of a government program and must adhere to the rules given to participants in that program. If his religion requires that he violate those rules, he can't be part of the program. That simple really



why should he resign his career choice because of it?

He doesn't have to resign but he can't be part of the government program if he doesn't want to follow the rules outlined.


would you have him forced out?

YEP ! if he can't follow the rules and discriminates.


thats oppression, and more importantly, the oppression of islam.

NOPE.


islam is oppressed by the conscious act of not submitting to it.

[edit on 9-5-2009 by DohBama]

Well then I'm oppressing the hell out of it as we speak


The dentist has the right to his faith but not at the cost of anothers. In short, his rights end where everyone else's begin.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama


Thanks for the invite though. Feel free to read or believe anything you want and I'll do the same.
Nice try at inflaming the thread though



suggesting that westerners read the koran, hadith and know exactly what it really says would 'inflame' the thread?

rejecting knowledge and embracing ignorance is illogical.

is it more comforting to simply not know?


Obviously you forgot what you posted so I'll repost it for you.


Originally posted by DohBama
i have other commitments, i will try to come back here and continue this discussion.
it is very important that infidels, especially western infidels read the koran and hadith. it is plainly worded and not a difficult read.


Your post calls us infidels because we aren't embracing islam. FYI, if you're going to respond with a non-response like you just did, I'm going to call you on it.
And before you call me ignorant, you need to realized I've studied just about every religion there is and do have an understanding of islam.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Originally posted by jfj123Oh please

Or what? Will you take away my nintendo


I find your comments amusing as it's very obvious you're simply trying to inflame the thread


You might want to try your comedy routine on your friends before bringing it here though


well, ignorance it is, i see.

and that suits allah just fine.


Are you enjoying posting your obvious attempts at inflaming the thread?
You obviously are not interested in logical discourse so what is your reason for posting in this thread? Is your goal to try and promote islam or simply to try and annoy people?

[edit on 9-5-2009 by jfj123]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123Well to start, nobody is telling him that. He is however part of a government program and must adhere to the rules given to participants in that program. If his religion requires that he violate those rules, he can't be part of the program. That simple really


so he must be discriminated against because of his faith? not very tolerant, i'd say.


He doesn't have to resign but he can't be part of the government program if he doesn't want to follow the rules outlined.

would you have him forced out?

YEP ! if he can't follow the rules and discriminates.


bigotry, intolerance and flat out oppression. his religion is the reason he should be forced out?


"thats oppression, and more importantly, the oppression of islam. "

NOPE.


it is indeed. he is not qualified to serve because of his beliefs.


"islam is oppressed by the conscious act of not submitting to it."

Well then I'm oppressing the hell out of it as we speak


yes you are. all who will not submit to islamic rule are the oppressors and must be dominated. and will be. this is known as the jihad. not to be confused with the personal inner struggle. this is the external struggle against the oppressors. allah has very few rules, if any, against how this is fought.


The dentist has the right to his faith but not at the cost of anothers. In short, his rights end where everyone else's begin.


thats what you think. western societies make great efforts to appease and accommodate islam, at the cost of their own citizens. this dentist, too, will be accommodated.




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