Muslim dentist 'refused to treat female patients unless they wore Islamic dress'

reply to post by DohBama


Wearing a Hijab is a choice, not a requirement.

Expecting someone to wear one, and refusing them medical treatment on the grounds that they don't, is forcing ones own personal bias on them. As everyone is equal in the respect that we are all human beings, any attempt to establish a difference is misguided.

Refusing to treat people who don't conform to your views, because they don't conform to your views is a form of bigotry.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by DohBama

Originally posted by neformore

Who's "they"? Do you mean this one seriously misguided person?

what makes you think this individual is misguided?

are you suggesting that he is wrong for insisting women wear the hajib?

do you believe he is misunderstanding something about his own religion?

is this what you are suggesting?

Yes, this individual is misguided. BECAUSE DISCRIMINATION IS A LEGAL MATTER not a religious one, as we all enjoy and maintain a SEPARATION OF STATE AND RELIGION. As a personal on his religion, aside from this legal constitutional issue of discrimination, its very primitive, and needs a massive upgrade, as its treatment of women is abhorrent.

Edit to Add: its primitive, and should be prohibited by international law to ensure that the rights of all humans beings will not be violated, by enshrining the highest human standards of equality so that no state or religion may violate them.

[edit on 8-5-2009 by mystiq]

Originally posted by mortalengine
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

.... Dude... those verses dont help anything BECAUSE they consider our way of life offensive and against Allah, therefore it justifies their actions in fighting us, because they see our way of life as a fight against Allah.

Honestly, why spend so much time reading that when you could devote time to reading some buddhism, taoism or even practice astral projection. I could care less about the technicalities and laws in the Koran - it makes me dizzy just trying to remember all the do's and dont's and in the end I just feel like a circus monkey jumping through hoops.

Kind of like how I feel after a few hours with the old testament.

Second line.

double post

[edit on 8-5-2009 by UrsusMajor]

Originally posted by mortalengine
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

Okay I know this is a stupid question but... What if a muslim where to, per accident, pray towards the wrong direction, lets say for instance there was a magnet throwing the compass off and he ended up praying towards a macdonalds or something... Would that go... un-punished ? I mean how much room for error is there on this ?

Actually... disregard that question..

So what if instead of the usual wafer, a Catholic was fed a Cheese Ritz, and instead of wine, he was given Cranberry Juice. Does this mean he will go to hell? I mean how much leeway do we have here?

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by DohBama

 

Wearing a Hijab is a choice, not a requirement.

mohammad himself demanded that women cover themselves, the prophets demands are not optional.

sharia law requires that women cover themselves.

the reason for this is to not draw a mans attention to female features, and risk temptation.

Expecting someone to wear one, and refusing them medical treatment on the grounds that they don't, is forcing ones own personal bias on them. As everyone is equal in the respect that we are all human beings, any attempt to establish a difference is misguided.

according to western culture, yes.

allah does not recognise this 'equality' we hold high in western society, there is no debate, no appeal.

do you claim that allah is 'misguided'?

Refusing to treat people who don't conform to your views, because they don't conform to your views is a form of bigotry.

Simple as that.

however, that 'bigotry' is also an important part of the islamic religion/culture.

the dentist is well within his rights as a muslim to refuse being offended by a woman who is not properly covered up, according to his beliefs. he is not forcing anyone to wear the hajib, but if they want his service, then they will have to submit to his sensibilities.

period.

he is not misguided, but merely practicing his faith.

do you suggest that western values must be imposed upon him?

sounds like bigotry.

Originally posted by mystiqYes, this individual is misguided. BECAUSE DISCRIMINATION IS A LEGAL MATTER not a religious one, as we all enjoy and maintain a SEPARATION OF STATE AND RELIGION. As a personal on his religion, aside from this legal constitutional issue of discrimination, its very primitive, and needs a massive upgrade, as its treatment of women is abhorrent.

you are imposing your culture on his, which is a high form of bigotry, do you feel his culture is invalid?

there is no separation of religion and law in islam. if there is, its only a temporary situation.

how women are to be treated is laid out plainly in the islaimc texts.

would you re-write the koran and hadith for this fellow?

the arrogance.

Civil rights and equality isn't and shouldn't be culture. Thats why religions themselves should either upgrade or be forced to disband themselves. Currently we have massive crimes against humanity hiding behind religous and cultural issues. These cannot continue and while nwo must be fought, some strong international laws regarding human rights with teeth should be established.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Kind of like how I feel after a few hours with the old testament.

Second line.

which is mostly jewish tribal law and not part of the new covenant.

the ten commandments still apply, and are not difficult to follow.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
So what if instead of the usual wafer, a Catholic was fed a Cheese Ritz, and instead of wine, he was given Cranberry Juice. Does this mean he will go to hell? I mean how much leeway do we have here?

the wafer and liquid are merely symbolic.

it doesnt matter what they are.

Originally posted by mystiq
Civil rights and equality isn't and shouldn't be culture. Thats why religions themselves should either upgrade or be forced to disband themselves. Currently we have massive crimes against humanity hiding behind religous and cultural issues. These cannot continue and while nwo must be fought, some strong international laws regarding human rights with teeth should be established.

in our culture, yes.

are you suggesting that allah is wrong?

also permissible in our culture, not theirs. unless you are prepared to die for it.

we have massive crimes against humanity that are not related to religion, what should be done about those?

islam does not submit to any laws made by men.

reply to post by DohBama


To begin with, he has been funded to establish and serve the general public, now since he was trusted to do so and since he is in another culture that is called respect.

Just for the record, when ever im in Dubai, i tend to have people who can organize my western habits since that nation disallows them. As i have said, i respect that nations culture and its that simple.

Point of the matter is, you must obey which ever country your in, based on its culture, so obviously he was not in an Islamic nation, therefore he needs to obey that nations cultures and not place his self ego trip over any person.

Like i have said he and every single person is a product of his environment. Obviously his religious context have influenced his better judgmental of what one would say ALL MEN AND WOMAN ARE EQUAL ..do you not know this or accept this ?

This isn't about culture. Constitutions are about enshrining human rights and a separation of State and Religion above culture, but as law. Not only is this what is done, but we must develop strong International laws to do the same and undo the huge pockets of human rights abuses and slavery all around the world that this is about. I'm not interested in anyone attempting to use culture or religion as a shield to hide criminal mistreatment of human beings rights to equality and freedom.

[edit on 8-5-2009 by mystiq]

reply to post by tristar


Totally agree.


If one does not want to live by western laws, dont live in a western country.

How is this any different from (some) Christian pharmacists who refuse to dispense morning after pills or contraceptives?

Both have the freedom to do what they want but it still doesn't mean they are right.

I haven't read the whole thread but I am sure there are some on here who would defend the Christian pharmacists but will condemn the Muslim dentist.

Originally posted by tristar
reply to post by DohBama

 

...he has been funded to establish and serve the general public, now since he was trusted to do so and since he is in another culture that is called respect.

not compulsive for a practicing muslim devoted to his faith. sharia law is gaining acceptance in the UK, as a separate law specifically for muslims in that country.

the general public has also been commanded to submit to islam, by allah himself, btw.

western culture must appease and accommodate islam, not the other way around. ever.

...when ever im in Dubai, i tend to have people who can organize my western habits since that nation disallows them. As i have said, i respect that nations culture and its that simple.

your western ways cannot be accepted there, islam is created to be the dominant culture, everywhere.

...you must obey which ever country your in, based on its culture, so obviously he was not in an Islamic nation, therefore he needs to obey that nations cultures and not place his self ego trip over any person.

according to whom? are you not aware how islam is changing western culture from the inside out? there is a reason for this. it is no accident.

Obviously his religious context have influenced his better judgmental of what one would say ALL MEN AND WOMAN ARE EQUAL ..do you not know this or accept this ?

his religion is his better judgement, who's judgement is better than allah and the prophet? i know what allah and his prophet say plainly about the status of men compared to women. and so does this dentist.

he may appear misguided in our eyes, but be assured, in islamic context, he is not.

reply to post by mystiq


I was the first to shout disgust at this the news when i first stumbled upon it. Human rights and a distinction between church and state is a definite and positive move in every aspect.

But when one applies his own ego trip on another human being then he deserves what that law has in place.

What seriously ticks me off, is that people actually believe that by not doing word for word what any bible says that you are less welcome in the eternal kingdom. Well sorry but thats just horse Sh*t in my books, that may have been so back in the 15fh century, but hey, different times are upon us.

Unfortunately people like these narrow minded idiots do tend to hold a place in society and with some background education they think that can dictate what is wrong and what is right to anyone.

Originally posted by mystiq
This isn't about culture.

this is indeed about culture. this is why there is controversy. the cultures have clashed here.

Constitutions are about enshrining human rights and a separation of State and Religion above culture, but as law.

the laws of man. allah does not recognise the law of man. there is no debate with allah. no appeal.

Not only is this what is done, but we must develop strong International laws to do the same and undo the huge pockets of human rights abuses and slavery all around the world that this is about. I'm not interested in anyone attempting to use culture or religion as a shield to hide criminal mistreatment of human beings rights to equality and freedom.

what we regard as criminal and abuse in the west are part of the culture in islamic ruled cultures. practiced by the prophet and granted by allah, reccorded in the koran, hadith and scholarly witnesses.

have you never so much as glanced at the koran and hadith?

required reading for every westerner.

you really dont know?

reply to post by DohBama


Going over all your replies, i only have one question



Do you believe that MEN and WOMAN are equal in the eye's God. ?

Originally posted by tristar
reply to post by mystiq

 

... Human rights and a distinction between church and state is a definite and positive move in every aspect.

that is your opinion, and reflect the values of western civilisation. the same values you would impose on this muslim man.

But when one applies his own ego trip on another human being then he deserves what that law has in place.

obeying allah does nothing for ones ego. this man has submitted to allah and obeys his demands. do you fault him for that?

What seriously ticks me off, is that people actually believe that by not doing word for word what any bible says that you are less welcome in the eternal kingdom.

those people are wrong, the bible is simple. keep the 10 commandments, recognise the christ as the messiah and you're in. simple.

you dont even have to be a nice person, if you dont wish to.

that is, assuming it is christianity you are beating your chest about.

Unfortunately people like these narrow minded idiots do tend to hold a place in society and with some background education they think that can dictate what is wrong and what is right to anyone.

who would you have dictate?