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Muslim dentist 'refused to treat female patients unless they wore Islamic dress'

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posted on May, 9 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
Are you enjoying posting your obvious attempts at inflaming the thread?
You obviously are not interested in logical discourse so what is your reason for posting in this thread? Is your goal to try and promote islam or simply to try and annoy people?


so, if i posted "hey, lets throw the dentist out of his job, the muslim animal" that would be in your eyes 'logical discourse'.

and explaining why the dentist did what he did, is 'inflaming'?

so, we should all simply stew in ignorance and all express the same point of view?

interesting.




posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Originally posted by jfj123Well to start, nobody is telling him that. He is however part of a government program and must adhere to the rules given to participants in that program. If his religion requires that he violate those rules, he can't be part of the program. That simple really



so he must be discriminated against because of his faith? not very tolerant, i'd say.

No he's not. He's actually the one discriminating based on his faith.


He doesn't have to resign but he can't be part of the government program if he doesn't want to follow the rules outlined.


would you have him forced out?


YEP ! if he can't follow the rules and discriminates.



bigotry, intolerance and flat out oppression.

Yes the dentist is an intolerant, bigot that is oppressing people based on his faith



his religion is the reason he should be forced out?

He's not being forced out based on his religion.
Let's say person A's religious beliefs allowed them to kill anyone who disagreed with their beliefs. Based on your logic, since their religion says it's ok, we must accept him killing anyone he wants. Does that really make sense to you? That is exactly what you're saying.


"thats oppression, and more importantly, the oppression of islam. "

NOPE.



it is indeed. he is not qualified to serve because of his beliefs.

No it's not. You cannot impose your belief system on someone else. He can believe whatever he wants but his rights stop where everyone else's rights start.


"islam is oppressed by the conscious act of not submitting to it."

Well then I'm oppressing the hell out of it as we speak



yes you are.

Good



all who will not submit to islamic rule are the oppressors

Not true. Anyone who wants to force others to submit to islamic rule is the oppressor.


and must be dominated.

Yeah right
Well we know that's not going to happen



this is known as the jihad.

We call them terrorists



not to be confused with the personal inner struggle. this is the external struggle against the oppressors. allah has very few rules, if any, against how this is fought.

You may want to double check that



The dentist has the right to his faith but not at the cost of anothers. In short, his rights end where everyone else's begin.



thats what you think. western societies make great efforts to appease and accommodate islam, at the cost of their own citizens. this dentist, too, will be accommodated.

I hope not as the law is not on his side. My hope is that the dentist will be treated just like anyone else who refused government paid treatment based on their beliefs.



[edit on 9-5-2009 by jfj123]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by DohBama
i have other commitments, i will try to come back here and continue this discussion.
it is very important that infidels, especially western infidels read the koran and hadith. it is plainly worded and not a difficult read.


Your post calls us infidels because we aren't embracing islam. FYI, if you're going to respond with a non-response like you just did, I'm going to call you on it.
And before you call me ignorant, you need to realized I've studied just about every religion there is and do have an understanding of islam.


those who dont submit to islam are infidels.

another thing you arent aware of... ingorance is really paying off.

if you studied islam, you would know that, at the very least.

if you are someone who studies islam, i have to wonder why you dont think it is important for westerners to know exactly what it is that islam intends for them.

you would prefer westerners remain ignorant? again, that suits allah just fine. do you know why?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by CuriousSkeptic
As stupid as I may think this is, the good dentist owns a private business and can serve who he wants and not who he doesn't. If as a businessman he's stupid enough to turn away potential customers because they don't meet his religious standards, that's his choice. I really don't see a problem with this.


Sponsored by the NHS .. He therefore does NOT have the right to exclude people that do not share his religious beliefs. he receives public funds. He deserves to have his license taken from him.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Originally posted by jfj123
Are you enjoying posting your obvious attempts at inflaming the thread?
You obviously are not interested in logical discourse so what is your reason for posting in this thread? Is your goal to try and promote islam or simply to try and annoy people?


so, if i posted "hey, lets throw the dentist out of his job, the muslim animal" that would be in your eyes 'logical discourse'.
Nope never said that at all.

He can go into private practice where he would not be required to adhere to the rules that seem to be at odds with his faith.


and explaining why the dentist did what he did, is 'inflaming'?

Not at all but that's not what you're doing now is it? You're inflaming the thread. You know it, I know it, everyone else reading the thread knows it.


so, we should all simply stew in ignorance and all express the same point of view?

interesting.

Not at all. Again, I never said or even implied that. Feel free to believe whatever you like. I support free and individual thought as long as it does not infringe on others rights to the same.

Again, your rights end where mine start.
I can't FORCE my beliefs on you and you can't FORCE your beliefs on me. That's fair, isn't it?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama


those who dont submit to islam are infidels.

Then most of the world are infidels
By the way, we consider that to be derogatory.


another thing you arent aware of... ingorance is really paying off.

For you it seems to be.


if you are someone who studies islam, i have to wonder why you dont think it is important for westerners to know exactly what it is that islam intends for them.

I don't "study" it, I have "studied" it and many other religions.
Islam as a religion intends nothing toward the west. Islamic extremists on the other hand....well their intentions are pretty clear even if they won't get what they want



you would prefer westerners remain ignorant?

Please point out where I said that. Be specific please.


again, that suits allah just fine. do you know why?

Allah has no power over me or anyone who doesn't believe in him/her/it.
Do you know why?????


[edit on 9-5-2009 by jfj123]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123No he's not. He's actually the one discriminating based on his faith.

Yes the dentist is an intolerant, bigot that is oppressing people based on his faith


which is perfectly acceptable in islam. in fact is is demanded. dont you study islam?


"his religion is the reason he should be forced out?"
He's not being forced out based on his religion.
Let's say person A's religious beliefs allowed them to kill anyone who disagreed with their beliefs. Based on your logic, since their religion says it's ok, we must accept him killing anyone he wants. Does that really make sense to you? That is exactly what you're saying.


dont we? would you care for examples?


Not true. Anyone who wants to force others to submit to islamic rule is the oppressor.


allah disagrees with you.


"and must be dominated. "
Yeah right
Well we know that's not going to happen


it is happening right now.


"this is known as the jihad."
We call them terrorists


they call them allahs most devoted, faithful followers.


"not to be confused with the personal inner struggle. this is the external struggle against the oppressors. allah has very few rules, if any, against how this is fought. "
You may want to double check that


i have, read your koran. tell us, what rules are there when it comes to fighting in allahs way?

can innocent women and children be killed when fighting the non-believers and those who refuse islamic rule (oppressors)?

is it permissible to threaten non submission with death, and make good on that threat?

is it permissible to lie to unbelievers to fool them so that islam will dominate?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama

"his religion is the reason he should be forced out?"
He's not being forced out based on his religion.
Let's say person A's religious beliefs allowed them to kill anyone who disagreed with their beliefs. Based on your logic, since their religion says it's ok, we must accept him killing anyone he wants. Does that really make sense to you? That is exactly what you're saying.



dont we? would you care for examples?

Yes I would. Please post examples of this happening as a matter of practice in such countries as UK or USA.


Not true. Anyone who wants to force others to submit to islamic rule is the oppressor.



allah disagrees with you.

Allah is wrong



"and must be dominated. "
Yeah right
Well we know that's not going to happen



it is happening right now.

Don't know if it's happening in the UK but I know it's not in the US.


"this is known as the jihad."
We call them terrorists



they call them allahs most devoted, faithful followers.

A terrorist by any other name is still a terrorist



can innocent women and children be killed when fighting the non-believers and those who refuse islamic rule (oppressors)?

Do you believe this is acceptable? YES or NO ?


is it permissible to threaten non submission with death, and make good on that threat?

That would be a bad idea where I'm from



The real answer to your questions is...who cares.
The reality is that this particular dentist CHOSE to move to where he now lives and CHOSE to practice where he is now practicing. He made a CHOICE to accept government money along with the rules that went along with accepting that money. He CHOSE to SUBMIT to the governments will to get money. He was never FORCED to do anything. If his religious beliefs really meant so much to him, he never would have agreed to go against said beliefs by signing up for the program.


[edit on 9-5-2009 by jfj123]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
endless quotes...


most of the world is composed of infidels, it is islams documented intent to correct that. it is what allah demands.

i dont know any infidels who feel the term derogatory. in fact, just the opposite.

islam intends nothing towards the west? you may want to study islam a little more closely. who we call 'extremists' act with the blessing of allahs very own words and the prophets documented actions.

what do they do that is not supported in the holy texts, scholar?

you have endorsed the embrace of ignorance by suggesting that westerners should ignore the words of the koran and hadith. the post is there for everyone to read.

allahs no power over you? you were not affected by 9/11/2001?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Originally posted by jfj123
endless quotes...



most of the world is composed of infidels, it is islams documented intent to correct that. it is what allah demands.

Allah can cry and scream all he wants. It's not going to happen



i dont know any infidels who feel the term derogatory. in fact, just the opposite.

Good for you



islam intends nothing towards the west? you may want to study islam a little more closely. who we call 'extremists' act with the blessing of allahs very own words and the prophets documented actions.

Then allah is kind of a jerk !


you have endorsed the embrace of ignorance by suggesting that westerners should ignore the words of the koran and hadith. the post is there for everyone to read.

I would suggest reading all religious books just to see different points of view around the world. In the end, believe what you want as long as it doesn't affect others.


allahs no power over you?

I'll tell you what. We'll do a test. If allah can turn my TV to channel 288 right now, I will believe he has power over me. If not....
Surely he can do something so simple right?


you were not affected by 9/11/2001?

Allah didn't do that. A bunch of nutbag extremists did. Unless you have a photo of allah flying the planes. Do you? Can I see it?


[edit on 9-5-2009 by jfj123]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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I sure do hear many stories about extreme Muslims "pushing the law" in England. Why is that? I am from the US. I would really like to know.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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Unfortunately anyone who says that terrorist's or jihad fighter's are killing innocent or guilty people in the name of god are as delusional.

"They served in silence"



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123Yes I would. Please post examples of this happening as a matter of practice in such countries as UK or USA.


here in the states we are allowing gitmo detainees free, on the streets of our cities.


"it is happening right now. "
Don't know if it's happening in the UK but I know it's not in the US.


US Military Destroys Bibles Following al-Jazeera Complaint

Hawaii to Observe 'Islam Day'...

US Muslims Reward Islamic Bigotry in the Maldives...

Obama Approval Rating Highest among US Muslims...

Former Employee Nets $70k from US Hospital over Haj 'Denial'...

Obama move alarms Israel supporters

there is more, if you'd like. much more. little by little islam will eventually dominate all western cultures. they have said that is their intent, does no one believe them?

no? that suits them just fine, too.

but this topic may be better explored on another forum.

back on topic:

the dentist must not be oppressed for practicing his faith, must not be forced to do anything that violates it.

if we're gonna talk the talk about multiculturalism, we're gonna have to walk the walk as as well. this is what multiculturalism looks like.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by tristar

Unfortunately anyone who says that terrorist's or jihad fighter's are killing innocent or guilty people in the name of god are as delusional.


in the name of allah.

the islamic holy texts support this, are you suggesting that they do what they do for kicks?

tell us what they do that is not supported by allahs words and the prophets actions?

suicide bombings, perhaps?

‘Suicide bombings justified from Prophet’s days’

do tell us.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


your post reveals a wholesale ignorance of islam, even more so than your previous posts.

carry on pretending islam is something that it is not.

that serves a very important purpose.

as muslim numbers grow in the uk (and elsewhere) they will have the power in numbers to change the local laws to suit them.

they are doing it right now, and will continue to do so.

the dentist will be protected from really any consequence, and continue to operate his practice as he sees fit.

it would be politically incorrect to force western cultural values on him, and in the big picture, a danger.

the uk would not even allow a man who has stated facts about islam, warning his fellow infidels, into the country.

his warnings as well as others, will be ignored.

this suits allah just fine, too.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
it would be politically incorrect to force western cultural values on him, and in the big picture, a danger.


My apologies but I truly don't understand your logic at all. Politically incorrect for him to have western culture 'forced' on him?

First of all, it is not forced if he came here by choice (although admittedly I'm not familiar with his history). Second, what about him forcing his Eastern cultural values on his patients when they cannot receive their government-funded care due to his rules?

He is here- we are not there. Due to that, it is his responsibility to adapt to the West- not the West's responsibility to adapt to him. You don't go somewhere then demand or expect others to bend to your culture.

I'm not sure how this does not make sense to you? Not trying to be condescending to you at all. This just sounds ludicrous to me. There are many countries he could move to where his rules would be the country's rules. However, this is not the case (yet) in the UK.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Originally posted by jfj123Yes I would. Please post examples of this happening as a matter of practice in such countries as UK or USA.

here in the states we are allowing gitmo detainees free, on the streets of our cities.

Really? Which ones?


there is more, if you'd like. much more. little by little islam will eventually dominate all western cultures.

Nope.


they have said that is their intent, does no one believe them?

There's a difference between intent and follow through.


the dentist must not be oppressed for practicing his faith, must not be forced to do anything that violates it.

The patient must not be oppressed and not be forced to do anything that violates their freedoms



[edit on 9-5-2009 by jfj123]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
Originally posted by tristar

Unfortunately anyone who says that terrorist's or jihad fighter's are killing innocent or guilty people in the name of god are as delusional.
in the name of allah.

the islamic holy texts support this, are you suggesting that they do what they do for kicks?

YES. They are doing it for kicks.
They're nuts ! It's simple really.

They're muslim extremists who are violent radicals that want to destroy everything and everyone that doesn't bow to their F'ed up will. That's why they're being hunted down




[edit on 9-5-2009 by jfj123]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by DohBama
reply to post by jfj123
 


your post reveals a wholesale ignorance of islam, even more so than your previous posts.

Your posts reveal you to be a muslim extremist.


carry on pretending islam is something that it is not.

Carry on pretending islam is more then it is



that serves a very important purpose.

Not for your or islam.


as muslim numbers grow in the uk (and elsewhere) they will have the power in numbers to change the local laws to suit them.

Keep in mind as muslim numbers grow, non muslim numbers will grow as well.


they are doing it right now, and will continue to do so.

the dentist will be protected from really any consequence, and continue to operate his practice as he sees fit.

Hopefully not.


it would be politically incorrect to force western cultural values on him, and in the big picture, a danger.

Well of course there would be no danger and the US is getting tired of political correctness as I'm sure is the UK. The whole political correctness thing will run it's course.

It's obvious that your beliefs are extremist. Keep in mind that you're not frightening anyone here. I personally find your veiled threats of impending doom for us "infidels" to be amusing. I'm more worried about paying my electrical bill late then people like you. Your ideas are very archaic and frankly will not fit into society in the future. Your harsh, myopic ideals will be swept away on the wind



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
My apologies but I truly don't understand your logic at all. Politically incorrect for him to have western culture 'forced' on him?


forcing him to either treat patients who offend his faith is oppression.

giving him the sack because of his faith is probably worse.



First of all, it is not forced if he came here by choice (although admittedly I'm not familiar with his history). Second, what about him forcing his Eastern cultural values on his patients when they cannot receive their government-funded care due to his rules?


i'm guessing he is an immigrant. he is not making anyone accept islam, or forcing anyone to wear the hijab. but if you are properly attired, fine. the choice is up to the patient. it is not his choice.



He is here- we are not there. Due to that, it is his responsibility to adapt to the West- not the West's responsibility to adapt to him. You don't go somewhere then demand or expect others to bend to your culture.


that is a western value. not islamic value. although there is a precedent that permits muslims to not practice faith openly, if it protects them, or if it is to deceive infidels. which is not the case here, the dentist is openly muslim and in no danger.


I'm not sure how this does not make sense to you? Not trying to be condescending to you at all. This just sounds ludicrous to me. There are many countries he could move to where his rules would be the country's rules. However, this is not the case (yet) in the UK.


yes, it does sound ludicrous, to western values. not all cultures have the same values. hence multiculturalism. the tolerance end embrace of all cultures.

you can bet our notions are equally puzzling to muslims. in fact, i guarantee it.

i think the solution to this dilemma is to have hijabs for patients who come for treatment to wear.

tempting men with physical charms is a great sin (the womans sin) in islam.

you dont have to agree with it, but thats the way it is.



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