Dr. Offers Flat Rate Care, N.Y. Says "No!"

This is why our health care cannot be dictated by public policy or the State:

In an effort to contain the cost of preventive care, and provide out-patient sevices, a New York doctor has offered his services for a flat rate of $79.00 per month.

However, the New York Department of Insurance has ordered him to stop, or to charge more for his office procedures to comply with regulations that apply to health insurance carriers.

"N.Y. doctor offers flat-rate care for uninsured"

A New York doctor is offering flat-rate health care for the uninsured for $79 a month, but he has run afoul of state insurance regulations in a case that challenges the established norms of the U.S. health system.

Dr. John Muney said he started the program after noticing that many of his patients were losing their jobs, and therefore, their health insurance coverage.

The monthly $79 fee -- roughly equivalent to the price of a Starbucks coffee a day -- covers unlimited preventive visits and onsite medical services such as minor surgery, physical therapy, lab work and gynecological care.

www.reuters.com...

Muney had signed up over 500 clients, with offices in each of New York City's 5 burroughs. Many patients had been unable to afford medical care for years, or had lost medical coverage because of layoffs and unemployment.

He has yet to make a profit, but feels compelled to offer services, at about the equivalent cost of a latte, in light of the economy and as an alternative to unnecessary costs and administrative rules tied to insurance claims.

However, the New York insurance department, as a "customer service," has ordered him to stop or increase the costs to his patients!

Muney said he received initial complaints from state insurance authorities in November. "The law says you can do preventive checkups unlimited, but if they come for sick visits you have to charge your overhead costs," he told Reuters.

In February he received a letter instructing him that he must charge that minimum cost, which he calculates at $33 a visit -- a price he says will deter people from signing up.

Troy Oechsner, deputy superintendent of the state insurance department, said the rules were designed to protect consumers.

"Our concern is ... making sure that consumers can rely on any promises made to them and that they will get the services they paid for when they need them," he said.

Fortunately, a State Assemblyman is working on a bill to exempt health care providers from the insurance regulations in question.

"This is something he's doing to give back, as a service to the community in tough times," Assemblyman Adam Clayton Powell said of Muney. "I think any common person would say this is a good thing."

So, want an example of the government managing your health care, costs, and the services you can receive with your own money?"

Americans would be much better off if we were allowed to rely on providers like Dr. Muney instead of whoever fits in someone else's "plan" or "program" at costs they set for us!

jw







[edit on 7-5-2009 by jdub297]

Great story and post thanks for Sharing. Flagged!

[edit on 7-5-2009 by amazing]

Yeah, it's especially common with foreigners who are educated here, and try to do this.

It's been something that isn't such a bad idea, but the Gov't won't let this happen. I mean I ended up with mono the other day, didn't know what the hell was going on went to the ER, just cause I have no Health Insurance, 2,500 dollars to tell me I have mono. I cried. Still haven't paid.

I would of loved to pay someon 70 heck even 200 bucks instead, 2,500 is insane!

Our health care system is not working; almost every one agrees it is too expensive, too cumbersome, and neglects the poor and unemployed.

But is a government-run program best? Is any third-party, or single-payer system better than allowing an individual to select his own care at a reasonable, market-driven price? And to allow him to use his own money, tax-free to select any provider who wants to compete for his business?

There are alternatives. We just have to look, and think of a way to restructure the health care system so that the patient comes first!

Here's one way we can look for alternatives

"Healthcare X Prize"

Organizers of the X Prize are offering $10 million to the winner of a contest to transform the healthof people in a small U.S. community.

They invited written ideas for the Healthcare X Prize, and said they would choose five for a three-year trial run in real communities or at employers.

The winner would be chosen based on a "community health index" of measures such as an improved ability to climb stairs, reductions in visits to emergency rooms, and health costs.

[urlwww.reuters.com...
[/url]

There may be other ways:

Snippet:

Health care insurance fails because it does not insure against a "risk." Working Americans do not benefit by spending their health care dollars underwriting the insurers' betting system. They would be better served, and their money more carefully spent, if they controlled the purchase of medical services.

If an average working American set aside the "premium" dollars he spent each month, tax free, to spend as needed at market-driven rates, he would have a readily available pool of funds with which to make his choices, much like pre-qualifying for a mortgage or pre-approval for a car loan.

Insurers would only be necessary for those medical expenses that truly are risks; accidents, catastrophic and chronic illness, and the results of activities voluntarily engaged in by the consumer (e.g., skydiving, bullfighting, smoking).

www.associatedcontent.com...

Before we let "crises" like the H1N1 panic divert our attention away from government moves to further limit your choices and economic freedom, consider the benefits of giving American medical consumers a better alternative.

jw

The USA has a surprisingly large Infant Mortality rate.

en.wikipedia.org...(2005)

It's above Canada's, Isreal, Spain, France, Hong Kong. Pretty much that's a bad sign.

I'd say if Healthcare was affordable and well, reasonable, we'd have the highest.

[edit on 7-5-2009 by Republican08]

reply to post by Republican08


I can't see any good reason this can't be done by dr.s, clinics, and doc-in-a-box 's. Even minor emergency centers and public hospitals could apply this scheme.

Hell, I'd pay more than $79 too, just to be in charge!

jw

reply to post by jdub297


There is no good reason it can't be done, but the list of bad reasons, well I couldn't list, it's a business, just like the Tamiflu, and Oil.

Except, well you can maybe ride a bike, you can maybe overcome the flu, but Cancer, Aids, etc, you need a hospital, and your life depends on it, they know it, and we know it, and they know that we know that they know it, but it doesn't matter, there going to charge anything they want.

I would be willing to give my life, for a better healthcare system, that EVERYONE wants implemented into the USA.

But guys, i'm not to worried, i'm sorry, i'm a dual citizen with a Canadian health card, if anythin were to happen, my a$$ would be up there so fast!

And again another link, just look at our death rates, and compare to other countries.

en.wikipedia.org...

Life is not a goal in the world today, well not in supposed civilized countries, death and destruction is what they want. It's sad very sad.

Should I also add, that in Canada, they have an extreme amount of shortages of Doctors, (in Ontario i'm sure) that they are offering to pay for Medical School for those wanting to become a doctor!



My Father passed away Nov. 6 at 2:00am, he begged everyone to let him die at home, so he could have his small fortune given to us, we said NO, we'll do whatever we can to help you live, and you will live.

After two days, he died an extremely painful death, where is scale of pain from 1-10 was a 10 to the highest degree.

The overall bill for this two day stay, 2,375,000 and some change. We paid it off, but it finished his business everything, he was in Oil, he owned IE Wood International. It's in Egypt.

The Hospital had told us the day he came in to Expect a full recovery! Which made the death even harder. Then they charged us with everything.

We are still fighting the hospital to get a 20 cent to the dollar deal, but it's not looking good. They don't care they want it and now.

I feel like unreasonably saying, you failed your job we shouldn't owe you anything, but I know it isn't possible, i'm sorry this is a bit rantfull. I've had tough months since that day.

[edit on 7-5-2009 by Republican08]

Could the government interfere with private business any more if they actually tried to? Why cant he charge whatever he wants? Pretty soon they will start telling McDonalds it should charge $2 for a McDouble because its called McDouble.

I'm about to get laid off and my COBRA payment (the cost to carry my current work insurance for my family) is $800 a month!!!

$79 bucks a month, even for each of my family, would be a God send. More than a 50% reduction.

Now, I don't know about catastrophic injury or disease, but for a large percentage of what we would deal with, that's a lot of cash.

Rep, I was about to write something about hearing people paying for people's college in return for work when you posted the same thing.

I have some crazy health problems and I bet my monthly ACTUAL health care cost is lower than what i pay.

I almost started to recommend a US Medical force...I'll bite my tongue, don't want to be a socialist or anything crazy like that.

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
Could the government interfere with private business any more if they actually tried to? Why cant he charge whatever he wants? Pretty soon they will start telling McDonalds it should charge $2 for a McDouble because its called McDouble.

Of course, NY (well, maybe the entire Northeast) is second only to CA as the biggest 'nanny" state where the government knows what is best for you.

MA, another state where "universal heathcare" has gone terribly wrong, is the same state giving cars away to welfare recipients, complete with AAA, insurance, taxes and title fees!

Government is NOT the solution to all our problems.

jw

Devil's advocate;

It seems too cheap. 500 clients for a gross of 39,500 per month. I don't see how that could cover the overhead of office, staff, insurance and equipment. How many clients a day can his office handle? How long can his clients wait for care?

He has yet to turn a profit, which means he is probably losing money. How long can he lose money? More clients would help cover the overhead but he's sticking his neck pretty far out there.

The concern could be valid. Perhaps the problem is that sufficient care could not be provided for that cost and those who prepaid would be left without care when the operation folded.

reply to post by Phage


He was only 1 month into the program when N.Y. began harassing him.

He quickly signed up 500 clients based largely on wqord-of-mouth alone.

He says that with 4,000 clients, the program will become self-sustaining.

Of course, overcoming the State of New York's obstacles, and the certain lack of MSM coverage are going to make this difficult, if not kill it ouright.

jw


[edit on 8-5-2009 by jdub297]

I don't understand how these "rules" came into existance, or how the people who made them are allowed to live amongst us.

There are laws against helping other people?

Who are these people? why are they still alive?

If I met them, what would I do? I really don't know. They make me sick to my stomach. How can they exist on a daily basis without such common sense? It's mind blowing. Absolutely mind blowing.

The people trying to stop this man need to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital. There is something wrong with them. They need to be taken from society and rehabilitied. If not, what purpose do they have to live any longer?

reply to post by nine0099thousand


Welcome to ATS!

Welcome also, to a glimpse of the New York "nanny state" metality, and how the government will "help" you in your quest for reasonable costs for an excellent health care plan.

I hope this unfortunate situation will serve as a clue why government-controlled health care may not be the best solution to our problems.

(Please sample some of the other "fare" at the 'Conspiracy Cafe' and contribute your thoughts and insight!)

Deny ignorance.

jw

Nothing different between this and an illegal alien working for dirt cheap...in terms of an economic stand point.

But, the doctor is on a much higher moral ground.

If I were in a business where it took 8 years of college, extreme courses, and a life dedicated to work, then I would want to make a pretty penny.

People like this doctor go against that trend.

Not saying I agree with NY's decision or not, but that is my view of why they have done what they have.

Obviously you don't know numbers or have done the calculations.

Let's do the math together here.

He is charging $79 a month per person all inclusive, just like and insurance company but now your dealing directly with the doctor, no middleman.

$79 X 500 = $3,950.00 or $474,000 a year, now most of those people will not use the service every month. Add another 500 people and double the numbers, people tell other people soon he would have had a few thousand people. The numbers work on this capitalist idea.

I'll bet the insurance companies saw that this would cut them completely out of the loop and didn't want other doctors follow this example, so they shut him down early.

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
Nothing different between this and an illegal alien working for dirt cheap...in terms of an economic stand point.

But, the doctor is on a much higher moral ground.

If I were in a business where it took 8 years of college, extreme courses, and a life dedicated to work, then I would want to make a pretty penny.

People like this doctor go against that trend.

Not saying I agree with NY's decision or not, but that is my view of why they have done what they have.

reply to post by Realtruth
They had to strike fast and stop him.

He had 500 clients by word of mouth alone. He needed 4,000 and had offices in all 5 burroughs of NYC.

He was on his way to a self-sustaining plan at reasonable cost and had to be shut down at once "to protect the public."

jw

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
Nothing different between this and an illegal alien working for dirt cheap...in terms of an economic stand point.

Nope.

The doctor is not an insurer.

NY doctors carry liability and E & O (errors and omissions) insurance, so if he failed to provide as promised, his patients are covered for their $79.00 loss.

Why choose "an illegal alien" for your example?

Why not any other service provider or contrator who chooses to underbid the competition?

Or, who decides to eliminate middlemen, administrative overhead and brokers/third-party payors?

The doctor is not an "insurer" any more than the cable company or newspaper.

You agree to pay a monthly fee for a specified service, whether you use it or not.

I see no link between immigration rules and free enterprise.


jw

[edit on 8-5-2009 by jdub297]

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
Nothing different between this and an illegal alien working for dirt cheap...in terms of an economic stand point.

To be honest, there is a huge difference. Too bad that you can't see that.

The doctor's business model is based on two things:

1: to help solve an existing problem (many people lose jobs and their health insurance)
2: to gain or maximize profit (he obviously did the math and knows how many clients and/or visits he needs to exceed overhead)

So, from an economic standpoint I would say it's a pretty good idea. Identify a demand/lack of service and then offer a solution to it.

I still don't know where the illegal guy fits in here...