College IS for everyone

Too many people go to college already.

Filling the demand for higher educational qualifications is a lucrative business. Colleges, like everyone else, would like to make as much money as possible, so they offer undemanding, broad-based 'degrees' in things like business management, marketing, catering and other subjects that do not require much intelligence to become conversant with. Universities bulk up their liberal-arts faculties with dumbed-down 'consolation degrees', easily identified as such because they're usually 'studies' of some kind (film studies, media studies, gender studies, etc.) They run various other dodges and scams as well, the most successful of which, at least until the current financial crisis, was the MBA.

People who really should be learning a craft skill or contributing to the workforce instead obtain these useless degrees and enter society thinking they qualify as educated in the same way someone who studied art or science or philosophy does. Invariably they cannot open their mouths without proving otherwise.

Does this matter? I confess I am an elitist but am I, also, just being a snob?

Well, I believe it matters. These Potemkin degrees devalue higher education, in particular the institutions awarding them. Worse, they are an insult to those who have aspired and struggled towards real academic achievement, and who in the past saw their hard work and achievement honoured by a qualification that really meant something, and commanded respect because it did.

Worst of all, the degrees-for-cash business model create a race to the bottom in terms of academic standards as each college competes with the next to offer ever dumber degrees to poor suckers who think they're getting something of value out of it. Who suffers? In the first place, the young. In the second, society, enterprise and government.

'Degrees for all' is just the herd mentality at work. Or maybe 'flock' is a better word: in a world of sheep, everyone boasts a degree - in bleating.

[edit on 7/5/09 by Astyanax]

---

---

You don't need college to do that. College isn't for everyone and should be reserved for true acedemic subjects, not useless "media" degrees. We've come to the point where people think college is amust to be a success in life and that just isn't true.

I attended college for three years - biggest waste of time ever - I had a grant that paid for a lot, my parents helped and I worked, but mostly I partied - College is just an excuse for young people to prolong their adolesence further.

If you want to go to college, fine. But please don't judge people who choose not to be part of society's perpetual hamster wheel as " not wanting to expand their knowledge".

Like I said, I am ignoring economic reasons. And what's wrong with more colleges?



Thanks!



Good luck to everyone!



Yeah, at least for a four-year period in college.



Don't read too much into that, it's just a word.



What's with the insults? I must be right.



They should go just to learn. What's wrong with that? Or, at least, make them go to a trade school.



Why?



I'm in one right now.



Thanks for agreeing! Lack of motivation is a big issue too.



I didn't before, but I guess I will.



Like I said, I'm looking for reasons besides economic.



A career without college? Seems unlikely.



How are they teachers then?



There's the problem. How is it an impossibility? That's crazy talk, sir!



So why not make going to college the norm? Do you agree with my idea?



I'm not concerned with economic reasons.



Sadly it does in this world (well, throughout history), but I am not saying it does.



Really? Aren't most people, when they first enter college, undeclared majors?



I agree.



No.



Yeah, that's the only problem.



Yeah, but then we would have to find other ways of rewarding college graduates. Maybe give them better pay based on their grades or better pay if certain jobs are needed more than others. This seems fair. The former is actually rewarding hard work, which is always good.



What's wrong with that?



How is the MBA a scam?



Some people don't want to work in factories or wherever people with craft skills work.



College is for everyone. I do agree that the system has to be changed, though.



Maybe it's not, but it helps.



That's a gross generalization. Don't make such claims based on what you did.

There is something called high school.

College is for those with the intelligence in various subjects that could propel themselves to do something that others can not.

Everyone should not go to college.

Lets go over the various reasons...

1. Like others said, more demand, more money, for those that do.
2. All of the drop outs that waste time and money.
3. To much money to start out with (unless a community college, but the next reason will say why that is bad).
4. The standards would drop like a bomb.

Not everyone thinks learning is fun. Be grateful that you have the gift, but also be realistic and see that there are people who just do not care about college.

Forcing people to go is ludicrous also. In my initial sentence, I stated that high school exists for that reason. And for all of those kids who can not do simple pre-calculus problems, or take a physics test, you want them going on to college for even more advanced subjects?

There are many jobs out there that pay very well without college degrees (for what they are), and there are those that don't. But wasting time, trying to make an idiot do something great will not get you far.

edit - That part of the post is a realist point of view.

I wish everyone enjoyed learning. College can be a great experience (not even there yet myself...), full of many chances at expanding your brain. You are asking for something that is impossible; that everyone was like yourself. That everyone see the benefits of learning more and expanding their horizons.

Its wishful thinking, and not "bad thinking". All I ask for is for everyone who does not, to get a job, but even then that is asking for to much. So I am just going to go on with my own life and try to do something good for myself.

Before college, we should revamp all the public schools in this country. Or at least the ones by me...




[edit on 9-5-2009 by FritosBBQTwist]

Going to college for a major in basket weaving will not do much. When I go, I am making sure that my major is one with advanced courses that actually teach me something.

College offers a new atmosphere, and more job opportunities. While it can teach you many advanced subjects (High level calculus, management skills, co-op, internships, and any engineering course), it is also a process of weaving out the smart ones from the better ones. Companies would have a rough time interviewing every person that sent in an application, because if that were the case, it would be the best writer/speaker that would get hired, and not necessarily the best worker.

THAT is why it can be good. It is not for everyone.

If our education system was really interested in educating our young people they would separate them by their ability to learn.
It is totally insane to pace the studies to the slowest learner.

That would leave the fast learners with 8 to 10 years to finish high school (12 grades done into 8 to 10).
The remaining 2 to 4 years could be used to teach them whatever they would have done in thos 2 to 4 years of college, and it could be a part of the free public education system.

College should remain optional, any time you force things its a bad deal. Encourage all you want but force my hand I will likely bite yours. I still to this day contend that going to college was the biggest waste of time in my life; I turned down at least two jobs which would have served me better than any paper from the Turnpike Tech I was attending for a toilet paper degree (see also Associates) in computer science to get my foot in the door. Ended up dropping out when I needed a full time job to survive and now I work in IT despite my lack of backing paper and have no intentions of wasting any more time in a college when I can be out making money and getting experience (which almost always trumps paper).

Because college costs about $46 thousand dollars a year, if you go to a reputable private institution.

*shrug*
That's a lot of money. Not everyone gets financial aid.

I have to go, because my career will be in scientific research, specifically field work.
You can't just do that without a degree and background, and a lot of hard work.

I picked my courses today. I'm going to be working my butt off next year.
If anyone thinks otherwise, that's a joke.

[edit on 5/9/2009 by ravenshadow13]

I start my college education this fall, at a rather big and normally expensive school. I got lucky enough to happen across a scholarship that is going to pay for all of my expenses, otherwise I would probably be screwed. We're talking upwards of $40,000 total.

I agree that almost everyone should take up some kind of specialty schooling, whether it be a technical school for mechanics (et c), or a normal university like the one I will be attending.

But the price of schooling these days is ridiculous. Plus, everyone has their own little niche in society. Someone has to flip burgers, someone has to stock shelves, someone has to ring up your items at a store, and if it takes some kind of extra schooling to figure out how to do that stuff, you probably shouldn't be working anyway.

And one more thing that I would like to share. There's so much stress between finishing up high school, and starting off college. Between deciding where you want to go, how you are going to pay for it, where you are going to stay, what you want to do, and a lot of other factors, some people just won't be able to handle it. That's a lot of pressure for a younger person to deal with in a short amount of time.

There is great pressure in college, in my experience, to conform to what's considered proper, what's accepted by the norm. I was a graphic design student, and after 2 years I realised it wasn't for me. Graphic design is a labor of deception and manipulation of the visual. For me, some of the later design aspects of marketing, advertising, and the guiding of the eye on the subconscious level we were getting into conflicted with my moral beliefs. In the end, it wasn't about my artistic ability, but my willingness to conform to the views of my proffessors.

So I don't know if I agree that college is for everyone, but I think everyone should at least give furthering your education and bettering yourself a try.

I agree, but there's only one problem -- the education you receive in college is a far stretch from the truth.

reply to post by they see ALL

---

Dear they_see_ALL,

You have a very interesting concept of what higher education means in a society. I get the impression from your post that what you are really trying to say is that in this day and age, a person who is not well-educated can find themselves at a distinct disadvantage. That to "keep the playing field level" you might say, you'd have to have a society populated by people who all have the equivalent of what some people think of as a "college education."

However, to take that as an ideal scene and tell me that you are going to achieve it by extending free public education to the college level is a suggestion that I would seriously challenge.

The other posters have expressed some of the most obvious objections to this solution far better than I could. To summarize:

1. Some people just can't stand to be out of the workforce until they are 20 or older. Keeping people in school can be viewed to the equivalent of preventing them from contributing to society. Enforced non-contribution has been observed to lead to criminal behavior.

2. Some people are very able to learn on their own, and feel much more in control of their own lives by learning that way.

3. I challenge ATS members to think of one or two individuals who they feel have been major contributors to science or culture in any time since universities have existed. How much college education did they have?
There is a whole debate that has been ongoing at least as long as I have been alive (50-odd years) that current and past educational systems and methods are not necessarily producing the results that all of us hope or see as desirable. Some have even accused modern education as being destructive. There are a lot of statistics out there to support that argument. Maybe the current system has some very major flaws in it. Maybe the people who pushed hardest for compulsory public education had some agendas they weren't telling us about. This is a serious topic.

4. There are many workable alternatives to compulsory public education, especially for individuals who are old enough to work, or really want to work. There are many companies, for example, that can, and do, train their own technical specialists by using apprenticeships and even formal training. To a great extent, one important result of education must be effective doingness. You can only get that from practical experience in the real world.

5. It is clear enough to me, if not to anyone who has taken a good look at this subject, that the basics of education, or learning, are not even well understood by the people who consider themselves "experts" in the subject. What causes, for example, the wide variation in IQ (or whatever they call it these days) that you see in children? You find some "kids" who can study and reason near adult level, while others never learn some basics, like math or effective writing, after years of schooling. There is even data out there now that explains this, and technology developed to make almost anyone a lot smarter. This technology is largely ignored by the "experts."

So you see, most people would take issue with your suggestion for one or more of the above reasons, and I think they are totally correct to do so. The current educational system has not proven itself in my mind. So why subject the population to more of it? What we need is more effective educational methods. Why shouldn't any person be totally ready to enter the work force at the point that they are physically able to do so, and with the "equivalent" of a Ph.D. in several major areas of academic knowledge? That's the kind of result that a reall modern educational system should be able to produce!

reply to post by they see ALL

---

If your paying and I absolutely have to, then I will enter a academic or heavy theory based course. But I will not turn up to lectures, I will not do any work I don't like the sound or look of and I will spend whatever time I need furthering my vocational/ applied understanding by taking a class in what I want where I want. I have learned from experience (several years worth) that Academic subjects/ courses and myself DO NOT mix.

But if you really want to improve the prospects of your fellow human beings then perhaps look at the educational system of Finland. I say Finland as they are one of the few countries consistantly scoring highly internationally in education and literacy..etc

From 16 years of age onwards you have two choice routes Academic or Vocation. This two choice option is carried on all the way up to Masters level, after that only Licentiate and Doctorates don't have a straight up vocational version as the vocational route then focuses entirely on employment experience.

Now if it was a heavily vocational course, in a subject that I like/ want to do then I'd go there without complaining or wrecking it for whoever is sending me there.

No it isn't. I have a good career without a college degree.

That being said, my career does not mean I have to work 60 hours a week, skip vacations, or go to work sick. My life is not all about my "career". My "career" is about funding my life.

Maybe if i'd finished college my career would pay more - but ya know what? I don't care. To me my paycheck is NOT an indicator of my worth.

I realized that whilst I was attending university, i didn't need to make a lot of money, I didn'ty need a new car, I didn't need a load of debt, I didn't need a piece of paper from the university to make me feel complete.

I support fully anyone else's desire to want a degree, but it isn't for everyone - and it's part of a great lie that society tells us.

College = Success
Success = Money
Money= Happiness

Unless you're lucky enough to have your higher education fully paid for, you'll graduate with a load of debt, which is just as "they" want it.

I don't think forcing people to attend college is the answer. Especially the people who can't afford it in the first place and/or those who can't get enough financial aid to offset the cost. For your idea to even remotely work is to make sure it's a community college since they're cheaper than a University. Otherwise you'd likely have people sacrificing other necessities like food just to pay for the school.

As for your garbageman example, many of them make more than the average worker. In a city in the southeast where I used to live, they made $35/hour. Try getting that kind of money even with a degree, especially in this economy.

Anyway, you have an interesting idea...I just don't see it happening.

Hello,

In Portugal College its not obligatory but is sort of free, you have to pay yes.. but nothing like in America.. close to 1000€ per year.. and we still complain

Its not like some guys suggested.. that the dumb guys would lower the standards.. because although its free, there are exams and other stuff to select who enters and who doesnt.. For instance, on things like Healthcare only people with A grades can enter.. Thats a way to try to garantee the quality of the people..

Instead of selecting people by their wealth, we select people by their quality and hardwork..

That is equality of opportunities.. Without being obligatory..

i agree college is for everyone, i wnet to college late because when i finished school my parents made me work full time in a factory in a job i hated and where the people hated me so i could pay their bills.
im 22 now and decided 2 years ago enough was enough and went back and am now doing a national diploma in fashion biut when i did go back at 19 i was told by family that i was to old.

i understand if people are happy with just a school education but some people want more so let them

College is rather an almost necessary for our society and high gross jobs. I certainly Do not say college is a must or for everyone, rather it should be education and the pursuit of knowledge. Whatever form it is pursued shouldnt matter so much as it is pursued and is for all. I must say, however, humanity is not so noble a thing as to pursue what would set them free and permit a competent observance of reality.

Yes, to rank yourself among the Illuminati structured society,
College Education is for everyone.

You won't learn much about the Illuminati but you will be useful
to them in various ways.

The educated will be controlled and so will the not so educated.
Perhaps based on automatic salary raises or price increases to
technology phase outs, there are many factors besides the
structure that hold back progress for stability.