Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by azurecara
the whole idea of knowing - love it - to actually believe that we can know but we do know it's just that sometimes we only know something for a
while - then we have to know something else even when we realize that we don't know something - in order to think about it we turn it into something
that, even if only temporarily, we can pretend to know so we can use it - work with it or around it, it is pretending - but still - we know
I think you might be playing a bit fast and loose with the definition of words like 'know'; however I can see your point.
Here is the definition of absolute that I work with: Not to be doubted or questioned; positive: absolute proof.
you mean - like how the sun and planets revolve around the Earth? :-)
I have to respond firstly by saying interesting example!
So okay, we'll use that type of example. How do you know that the Earth and planets revolve around the Sun? Have you actually seen them to do this?
Sure it's a generally accepted idea. It is considered to be an absolute from a Scientific standpoint, and to date has yet to be disproved. But how do
After going back and forth of this thread I'm now going to take the Super-skeptical standpoint. Yes that's right, I said it! Nothing in this life
time is guarenteed to be the way it appears to be. Everything is suspect - even this
idea is suspect!
My life and my interaction with my environment has been a defined set of parametres within my mind. I've "learned" through interacting with my
environment that there are physical definitions to objects around me.
For example; this table my keyboard is resting on appears flat. It feels flat, and looks flat. I could use other objects to measure it's gradient
angle, and scientific formula to represent it's flatness. However if we magnify it to the nth degree we would discover the surface to be quite
coarse. At it's base form it is merely a series of densely packed atoms. This I have been told
to expect from my foray into the realm of
Can I be certain that this table is flat? No. Is this table being flat an absolute? No, as there cannot be an absolute. As a working theory it has
already been questioned in my mind, because I have 'learned' that although my senses are telling me it is flat, that upon closer study it is most
likely not. Subjectively my table is flat.
Now comes the even more cynical view. How do I even know that this is a table? Because a series of social interactions with other people have defined
it as such for me. An agreed upon consensus of the idea of 'table'. How do I know this table exists? Because my senses tell me it's there. Is that
knowledge? No, it is merely the interpretation of a set of stimuli to my senses, and a series of connections within my brain to my memories of similar
stimulus. It is also an interaction with the definition of 'reality'.
How do I know it's not a hallucination? I don't. But for the moment I'm going to use my working interpretation of 'table', until other stimulus
provides new or different information to adapt my definition of 'table'.
All knowledge is relative, and abstract concepts are very subjective. Ideas, and opinions one would have to agree are also subjective. Even my very
bad table explanation is subjective. How do I know this? I don't, it's just a working idea at present.
Alot of the examples used are to do with religion. I find this extremely amusing actually. As this would have to be the
most subjective topic
of them all, in my opinion (subject to being disproved or wrong).
You can not have a right or wrong with subjective opinions, only differences of
the reason I like to use the word absolute is for just that reason - it's fun to play with things that aren't easily explained like the word
sometimes we need a word to stand in for things that exist - even if they exist just outside of our ability to understand them
think of the word as a nickname :-)
I almost supplied you with more words, then thought better of it.
Think of all words as nicknames, and you shall be half-way to my point of view.
so funny how sometimes just chatting about stuff can get people's ire up though - isn't it?
I especially love how mad people get discussing things nobody can ever really know
Discussing opinions and beliefs can push anyone's hot buttons. Perhaps if people were more inclined to couch their replys towards the ideas
alone instead of throwing in a smattering of, You think What? and following that up with an appropriate sarcastic reference to someone's intelligence
level.... just maaaybe things wouldn't descend into the slippery slope of
Luckily this only happened to me once. I have since tried extremely hard to be very clear and not quite so flippant with my postings.... not everyone
is able to see my sarcasm. However, I digress.