Montana Governor Signs New Gun Law, page 5
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reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 03:23 AM by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator


MM....I don't believe anyone, including Montana, wants to see any state actually leave the union.

But you do realize that the without the THREAT of it happening...why even have individual states? It's the really the only protection a state has.

Why even call us the United States of America? Just change it to America.

You aren't looking at this in the right way.

This is about state rights versus the Federal government and it applies the same for medical marijuana (YOUR state is talking about actual complete legalization) or any other issue as long as it is protected under the Constitution.

Don't do your usual sarcasm. This isn't deserving of it.


I'm down to split this thing up already - I just want the west cost - There can be a GOP prey to god in school, earth is 6,000 years old, guns galore and no taxes. AND the opposite Cause with the guns you get the other good stuff - charcoal fixes cancer, music is the devil and pick n chose science


....

Was that really necessary?

My breakdown? Prayer in school should be allowed..but NOT TAUGHT. A school teacher should never lead a class in this..unless it is a private school as that is not a taxpayer funded. Political ideology should not be taught in school either...the only thing that should be taught in school is our Constitution in that regard.

The earth is obviously not 6000 years old...music most certainly isn't the devil.

Your federal government uses pick'n'chose science...both parties.




[edit on 7-5-2009 by David9176]



reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 04:09 AM by mental modulator
Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator


MM....I don't believe anyone, including Montana, wants to see any state actually leave the union.

But you do realize that the without the THREAT of it happening...why even have individual states? It's the really the only protection a state has.

Why even call us the United States of America? Just change it to America.

You aren't looking at this in the right way.

This is about state rights versus the Federal government and it applies the same for medical marijuana (YOUR state is talking about actual complete legalization) or any other issue as long as it is protected under the Constitution.

Don't do your usual sarcasm. This isn't deserving of it.


I'm down to split this thing up already - I just want the west cost - There can be a GOP prey to god in school, earth is 6,000 years old, guns galore and no taxes. AND the opposite Cause with the guns you get the other good stuff - charcoal fixes cancer, music is the devil and pick n chose science


....

Was that really necessary?

My breakdown? Prayer in school should be allowed..but NOT TAUGHT. A school teacher should never lead a class in this..unless it is a private school as that is not a taxpayer funded. Political ideology should not be taught in school either...the only thing that should be taught in school is our Constitution in that regard.

The earth is obviously not 6000 years old...music most certainly isn't the devil.

Your federal government uses pick'n'chose science...both parties.




[edit on 7-5-2009 by David9176]


Ya I took it down
after a short reflection

I fear the America that the movement is striving is more extreme then you can realize at this point. There is a specific ideology that comes with it David - education WILL be thrown back 200 years depending on the county - bye bye employee rights - much of the economic and legal protocall will be out the window-
You are one of many, and allot of your fellows are aiming for a drastic change.

I mentioned WALMART because that is a successful model in the world the extreme parts of the "MOVEMENT" will nurture. DOG eat DOG - Don't tread on me...

I wonder if you recognize this...

Just like economics it is a lever

So in the absence of GOV + free market you will find a logoed tyranny -

I mentioned leaving the union because the OP mentioned it.

With the guns and posturing comes other things...

I wonder what part of the government you would shrink???

We have SOME of the aspects we have now because of progress - remember the USA used to be a frontier...


reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 04:38 AM by mental modulator
Originally posted by David9176

My breakdown? Prayer in school should be allowed..but NOT TAUGHT. A school teacher should never lead a class in this..unless it is a private school as that is not a taxpayer funded. Political ideology should not be taught in school either...the only thing that should be taught in school is our Constitution in that regard.

The earth is obviously not 6000 years old...music most certainly isn't the devil.

Your federal government uses pick'n'chose science...both parties.




[edit on 7-5-2009 by David9176]


I mean D this YOUR opinion, indicting what you want...

I regards to the constitution - who will do the interpretation???
might as well have a Catholic, JEW and a born again come to a consensus
on the old testament.

You do realize SLAVERY and SEGREGATION were upheld due to constitutional considerations. Cut and dry, until LEGAL EASE and progress took hold many years latter.

Some of those folks at Palins rallies = the same folks who think gay people are not humane, science is evil and yes music is evil... they are NOT blessed with your level of common sense and intelligence. The ideology is VERY EXTREME in many regions.

BTW what is stopping anybody from preying??? Please tell me?

Like it or not some backwards stuff comes with the burrito

I am a touring musician, just toured the south and what I saw and heard is NUTTY
by my standards. MANY regular folks seem to want a form of Christian Sharia law
to guide society and in belief, they are in YOUR boat. Talking the same stuff (less the
social awareness), Glen Beck, "people are taking my guns" ( didn't hear one case on actual confiscation mind you ), free markets, death to public schools, death to social security, jailing gays, biblical law and even re segregation... Like I said, for the most part it could have been you talking.

It was like hearing echoes of MM hell on Earth...

My eyes are open - when SG says fringe - well, I had no idea...

So do you think your opinion is going to be the reality if this movement happens?
How about my observation that the minds I came across make you look like a Liberal

Whole states 50- 100+ years backwards-
---------

BTW
+ the FED has never negated science unless it was with other science which is free to dispute via scientific method -

Religious faithful are at odds with science - genetics- origins -entomology - it is comparing hamburgers and battleships, I am really surprised on that one David -
if religion and its past structures had its way we would be no better the 10th century.
Same forces that opposed astronomical observation are at work against new scientific frontiers.

Dude, there are tens of millions AMERICANS who think dinosaurs are "modern"

and many of them likely champion your cause -

by default you champion theirs.







[edit on 7-5-2009 by mental modulator]


reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 04:53 AM by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator




There is a specific ideology that comes with it David - education WILL be thrown back 200 years depending on the county - bye bye employee rights - much of the economic and legal protocall will be out the window- You are one of many, and allot of your fellows are aiming for a drastic change.


MM..

There is something you are failing to see here. Just because a state is disputing this does not mean all business will reign supreme. Your ideology exists everywhere..in all states all over the country. Sure there are fringers, but there are fringers in both ideologies. Most people want our country to be strong...but the want to be left alone..as much as possible.


I mentioned WALMART because that is a successful model in the world the extreme parts of the "MOVEMENT" will nurture. DOG eat DOG - Don't tread on me...


Walmart has become what it has..not because of business is evil...but because we don't tax imports nearly enough. Walmart has been able to drive prices down so far that it's drove other businesses in this country out of business.

Our government is responsible for this. This is also a great way to get some of the money back that we keep sending to other countries. Tax imports....level the playing field. Also creates great incentive to get companies back in the USA!

And...if the government did it's job in prosecuting the businesses that break the law..infringe on rights...harm the environment (which can apply to private property clauses)....we'd all be better off.

It just doesn't happen...at least not nearly enough.


I wonder what part of the government you would shrink??? We have SOME of the aspects we have now because of progress - remember the USA used to be a frontier...


Many things...most things. I think sometimes people fail to see that many of the things the federal government does could still be feasible if done by individual states.

I think i've answered that question for you before..it was awhile ago. I do believe national defense is important..REAL defense. Not pre-emptive attacks on other countries. Many agencies could be eliminated..including the board of education.

Elimination of failed government agencies would free up money which could be used to cut taxes or to pay off our debt.

Really it's something that would have to be looked at individually..to see what works and what doesn't. I won't pretend to know all of that as I certainly don't!


You're right in that the USA used to be a frontier...and it changed because of progress.

But what kind of progress? Progress of the creative individual or by a government trying to push society in a certain direction?

Our country didn't become strong because we were like others...it became strong because we were different. It became strong because we had more freedom than anyone in history...and we thrived.

We aren't thriving anymore. We are melting.


reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 05:12 AM by mental modulator
Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator

Our country didn't become strong because we were like others...it became strong because we were different. It became strong because we had more freedom than anyone in history...and we thrived.

We aren't thriving anymore. We are melting.



And it could also be said that the country did not progress until - things were centralized.
And in many cases the states mandated less than "free" ideals...

You also mentioned figuring out what works and what does not -
How do you do that?

MORE GOVERNMENT? or what - who ?

And private property and pollution...

DO you HAVE the time and MONEY TO LITIGATE that DAVID???

I sure do not

Are country is messed up because we have individuals who have $450,000,000,000.00
- NEVER in the history of mankind has there be such a desparity of wealth...
The balance is going out of wack faster and faster -
when we are old we will be hearing the word TRILLIONAIRE DAVID -

money is finite - it will flow faster and faster UP - it is an economic issue-

for who controls our government???

Why?



$$$$$$$$$

How?

$$$$$$$$$$

I'm not saying I know how to address it - but I am saying you could burn DC to the ground and find the same goings on in 10 years - max...


reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 06:11 AM by jfj123
Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by KSPigpen


I suspect more will...although I wouldn't count on any dominant blue states doing it...or any other state for that matter who is in major trouble financially...such as California....but i could be wrong!

Edit to add:

And i was wrong...as the governor of Montana is a registered Democrat.

[edit on 6-5-2009 by David9176]


Well this might lead to Michigan taking action as one huge sources of income is from hunting.



reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 06:39 AM by theindependentjournal
reply to post by David9176


I guess my question is why do we pass laws to make laws and Rights we already have valid? Weren't they valid before the feds overstepped their bounds anyways?


reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 06:53 AM by ag2000
Originally posted by XTexan
Excellent!!!

I hope to see Texas following up with its own version very soon. Time to start writing my reps again, lol...

This will be interesting and I look forward to seeing where it goes.


Texas is on board!!!

Lawmaker aims at making Texas Firearms exempt from Federal Regulation...


A Texas lawmaker wants to further push state sovereignty from the federal government. Rep. Leo Berman, a former Arlington mayor pro tem, has filed a bill to make guns, ammunition and gun parts that are made, sold and kept in Texas free from federal regulation. That would exempt them from federal gun registration, dealer licensing rules and buyer background checks.



HB1863

Looks like it just made it out of committee this week!!


reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 07:22 AM by daddymax
reply to post by David9176


And it's official. Signed today.


Friggin BEAUTIFUL

I'll send this to the Oklahoma Representative...let's go for 2...


reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 09:55 AM by merkaba93
A beautiful day for Liberty!

What a strange situation that a state has to create legislation saying something that should not even need to be stated. Fed.gov should have zero control over anything manufactured in a state as long as it does not cross the border with another state.

From the AP,

"Its supporters next plan to find a “squeaky clean” Montanan who wants to send a note to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives threatening to build and sell about 20 rifles without federal dealership licensing. If the ATF says it’s illegal, the gun bill’s backers plan to file a lawsuit in federal court with the goal of launching a legal showdown that lands in the U.S. Supreme Court."

The Sheriffs in Montana all need to get together and just toss all the BATF agents out of the State or we'll see them doing things like having straw-men-purchasers buying large quantities of Montana made weapons and then make sure they get caught smuggling them to "Mexican Drug Cartels" across state lines.

The BATFE is just another alphabet soup agency looking for and/or creating scenarios to justify and increase their own funding. If all the states passed laws like this we wouldn't even need them anymore. Not that we need them now of course.

The only thing an illegal international treaty outlawing weapons would do to Montana at this point if it were to be ratified and attempted to be enforced there would be to set up a nice shooting gallery for Blue Helmets. "Peacekeepers" from some downtrodden UN member country going into Montana to root its armed citizens out of the mountains by force would make it look like the Soviets got off easy in Afghanistan.


reply posted on 7-5-2009 @ 10:48 AM by dooper
reply to post by theindependentjournal


I think you ask a very good question.

Why do we have to dance around to pass laws to protect the laws and rights we already have - under LAW?

It's like walking the dog. That dog is excited to be out and about, and wants to see and test the limits. Do they ever just walk along?

Nope. Just like kindergartners, they have to constantly be pulling here and there, always testing the limits.

Once in a while, (assuming PETA isn't right there watching,) you have to snatch the hell out of the leash to more clearly define the limits.

Or, with the kindergartner, you snatch him up, bust his ass, look him in the eye, and say, "NO!"

Overdosing on Prozac is a Washington DC residential requirement. Self-induced hallucinations of sainthood are a mandatory practice.

Ted Kennedy never, ever, had a real job. Obama never, ever, had a real job.

And we wonder why our elected officials keep pushing for things that are unattainable?

They've had their way paid for them.

We are the ones who learned long ago to pay our own way.

And they've gathered a company of people who want us to pay their way too.

Thus, the unwilling and un-capable are maintained in their positions by the unwilling and un-capable.
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