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Republicans Just Don't Get It

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posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by ImzadiDax
G.W. for 8 years ran our country into the ground. By dividing our forces between 2 wars, throwing trillons of dollars on wars abroad while we have people here dying of starvation and lack of insurance. Piece by piece he took away our rights (no knock warrants, warrantless phone taps and the like) and I dont hear anyone mention that.


It's because the previous administration was and is guilty of all the things you mention and a lot more, and liberals don't wish to draw the obvious comparisons. The Clinton administration deployed more U.S. forces in more useless and costly military operations around the world than any other presidency in U.S. history, including the Bush presidency. Clinton was so trigger-happy that he actually exhausted the U.S. arsenal of cruise missiles. Fact. Clinton also basically declared war on American citizens who spoke against the government, spying on private American citizens and organizations, and deploying FBI and BATF operatives like heavily armed storm troopers, resulting in hundreds of civilian deaths (see Waco and OK City).

If you were worried about the liberties lost under the Bush administration, then you should've been frightened to goddamn death by the Clinton administration. Yet liberals wholeheartedly supported that arrogant sociopath with nary a complaint, saving their vitriol for the clumsy but comparatively cuddly Bush administration.



— Doc Velocity




posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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I have been a conservative independent since I was 18 .I am way past sick of our two party circus. I have voted for both parties,never again. There needs to be a grass roots,staunch constitutionalist party. The platform needs to begin by repealing the patriot act. Getting back to basics!! Now I could get behind that!!



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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Amen, Daddyroo.

The current Republican Party is left of where the Democratic Party of the Clinton Era was.

Of course the Obama group is so far left, I can't believe that they haven't had to tear out the end of Congress to build an extension on the left side of the hall.

A Constitutional Party would rock.

Right now we have a choice between turds.

I already have enough * in my life.



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 06:25 AM
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Sigh... I love you cop outs who come on here and say "It's both parties that are doing this to us" or "Why are you pointing the finger at the Republicans" Well Ill tell you why so listen up. When you vote for a Democrat, you know what you're getting. You are getting big government and big taxes period its been that way for a long time and it hasnt changed. Its the Republicans who lie. They are the ones who go and claim small government and they increase it instead. Then they make us not question anything by lowering taxes and putting it all on the charge card.

Now this IS NOT just Bush who did this. Regan did the same exact thing. He talked a big game about smaller government but then more than doubled the national debt. I want people when they go to these Republican meetings to start asking the tough questions thats all. I want people to ask, "so what are YOU going to cut to justify lowering my taxes?" I want people to ask "I know you're for the 2nd Amendment but what about my 1st, 4th, and 5th?" Im sorry I understand the two crime party mentality because I to feel this way. But lets face it this really is about the Republicans. They are supposed to be different than the Democrats who have ran on the same platform for years. Its time to hold these people accountable. If they vote Like Specter or Graham does THEY NEED TO BE VOTED OUT AND I DONT GIVE A # IF ITS A DEMOCRAT THAT TAKES THEIR SPOT!!!!! If Im gonna have someone voting like a Democrat its gonna be a Democrat so I can vote in a true conservative the next time around that is unless a true conservative decides to step up and run against these fakes.



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
I love you cop outs... Its the Republicans who lie.


“I will not raise taxes on the middle class.”
— Bill Clinton on the Campaign Trail, June 21, 1992.

“I’m not going to raise taxes on the middle class.”
— Bill Clinton on the Campaign Trail, July 13, 1992.

“The middle class has paid through the nose for a decade. We have to be wary of making a problem of inadequate income even worse by taxing people whose incomes are going down. That’s my premise.”
— Bill Clinton, quoted in Time Magazine, July 20, 1992.

“I had hoped to invest in your future without asking more of you. And I’ve worked harder than I’ve ever worked in my life to meet that goal. But I can’t.”
— Bill Clinton, Oval Office Address, February 15, 1993. Announcing a Middle-Class tax increase after being in office less than one month.

Democrats are the Mothers of All Cop-Outs, they are profound and shameless liars, and they have the worst reputation in American history for being on the wrong side of every issue. The Democrat agenda is staunchly anti-American, staunchly anti-Constitution. Anyone who claims to hate lies and liars yet knowingly supports the Democrat Party is a hypocritical schmuck and is a liar to himself.

Those who ignore the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them.

— Doc Velocity



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by daddyroo45
 


I have been a conservative most of my life too. I've too have also voted for Republican and Democrat in the polls. No longer. I refuse to vote for either party.

Unfortunately one cannot just pin it on the Republicans or Democrats. It's not just Bush Jr, Sr, Clinton, or Obama.

Every single one of those presidents including the coveted Obama, have eroded our rights, infringed on the constitution, expanded government at every opportunity, waged wars, or created more and more legislation for the Federal government.

I'm willing to bet good money that the current Democratically controlled congress, and President Obama, will not allow the Patriot Act to expire in December, 2009. At that point it no longer becomes a Bush issue as the blood will be just as much on Obama's hands. Mark my words, it won't be allowed to expire but amended slightly. If not, I'll eat my hat.

The Democrats and Republicans alike on the hill, have the same agenda. The continuation and expansion of the Federal government. That should have been clear with the TARP vote to every American, that these representatives did not vote on your behalf, but what was best for the Federal government.

In reality, BOTH parties are the Federalist party. I no longer see a distinction between (R) and (D) next to their names. I simply see "Federalist" with different flavors. Their first and primary concern is the Federal government, the rest is just window dressing. They should just merge with each other and get on with it.

If you only see the (D) or (R) distinction, keep looking further. Understand the closed door deals between parties, attempting to keep party lines, but ultimately going for the same goal -- more government. The rest is just show to keep you polarized. The recent budget and tax increase in California and the back door way the Republicans approved it should make you furious and that's just one example.

What we as the People need is something more than a Constitutional party. We need an Anti-Federalist party. Not so much the one of the past movement with the same name that paved the way for the bill of rights, but one today focused on reducing the Federal government to levels that were established in the Constitution.

Another focus would obviously by default be on the Constitution, and the restoration of rights as they were written.

It's also as a catchy name too. Most don't understand libertarian, or constitutional parties, or what they mean. In fact, most attribute the name libertarian as ultra 'liberal'. Lets be honest too, most have no idea what the constitution says. They do understand what Anti-Federalist means, and that alone should garner tons of attention and support. Especially if those leaders come out and point exactly how the Federal government has stepped over it's boundaries time and time again, and how it effects them personally.

One can only dream...



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Not Authorized
The Democrats and Republicans alike on the hill, have the same agenda. The continuation and expansion of the Federal government... In reality, BOTH parties are the Federalist party... If you only see the (D) or (R) distinction, keep looking further.


Thank you. Finally, the Voice of Reason.

Face it, it doesn't matter who is in the White House or in Congress — Obama or Bush or Clinton, these clowns are all cut from the same cloth, big money and privilege, attending the same schools, the same secret fraternities, and with the same lust for power. We'd be idiots to think we're changing the course of history by voting for one over another, for they are all ineffectual cardboard cut-out tokens of "choice," appointed and empowered by entities and agencies behind the scenes, but not by the American people.

Do we have freedom of choice in this country? The masses haven't enjoyed freedom of choice in decades — the American election process has been a sold-out sham for over a century. We're given a "choice" between the Tweedle-Dum Party and the Tweedle-Dummer Party, we absorb these mock issues and mock scandals and mock debates, and we fall for it every time, but it's just a vaudeville routine designed to keep the befuddled masses believing in the illusion of choice.

There is no choice, folks. There's no pilot on this boat, we're at the mercy of the current. So, let's just sit back and enjoy the ride to oblivion.



— Doc Velocity





[edit on 5/6/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 07:20 PM
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I used to be a Republican, but like so many who have posted here, and millions more around the country, as a Conservative first, I (we) have nowhere to go. The Republican party is a complete joke! One needs to look no further then John McCain as our Presidential wannabe... I guarantee if McCain was elected the exact same illegal, destroy America at all costs nonsense President Obama and Congress are doing, would've happened under McCain as well.
I blame President Bush for the trouble this country is in. What he did in the last two years of his Presidency to our nation was/is criminal. As a conservative I feel my country is being stolen, our rights, our freedoms, and our very way of life is being erased day after day by both parties. In just 100 days of President Obama's administration this country has seen more businesses become government owned, and each done with Republican support and votes btw. And don't even get me started at how angry I was at the Republican’s spending, like a bunch of drunken whores, that was going on while they controlled Congress. We Conservatives have nowhere to go, this country is heading towards civil war and pundits are telling Conservatives we need to change. I call BS!

Now ex-Senator Gordon Smith (R-OR)… Just so you people know where I stand… I sent him an email letting him know three years ago that I would do everything within my power to make sure he was not elected to a second term, that freaken Rhino! I know for a fact he did not get 30 votes. Even though Oregon put in a flaming Liberal, (over 60,000 votes went to the Constitutionalist party, including my own vote)… I would much rather have that person in the Senate who we all know is going to bankrupt this country then a person claiming to be something, that Gordon Smith, most assuredly is not. He is a damn liar and was not even remotely Conservative... All I have to say about him is good riddance. I have always been a Conservative first and Republican only because I believed their lies… Well NO MORE!

The bad news is, because Republicans have betrayed their party, and the ideals that party was built upon, and because both parties have betrayed the ideals this entire country was built upon, I am fearful that this country is heading for a major clashing of teeth. As it stands right now I agree with the OP, how freaken dare Republicans preach as if they are the answer when they are ALSO the main cause of all the problems this country faces right now... Not to mention is was President Bush who threw Capitalism right out the window for this Socialist/Fascism thievery that is happening to our country. How damn shameful, President Bush had to know a liberal Controlled Congress was going to take over where he left off... How damn scary the next few years are going to be for our entire country, and the reaction/backlash we are seeing throughout this nation. Both in tea parties and the laws States are passing to reassert their rights under the 10th Amendment. This country is heading headlong into a fight, I just hope everything is done peacefully and at the ballot box and not with bullets out of a box. Sadly I think the latter is going to happen sooner then any of us (well… a good deal many of us) here on ATS would like.

--Charles Marcello

[edit on 6-5-2009 by littlebunny]



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


If you voted for Clinton because he told you he wasnt going to raise taxes Im sorry you're a moron. The Dems for YEARS have push for big government and big taxes. Then again I could be a moron for believing the Republicans...



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 07:38 PM
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The thing is the standard Republican arguments have become so entrenched that they seem to be incapable of seeing anything beyond them.

The no tax increase stance is one thing but when they start defending off shore tax havens for example at the cost of the public weal... when they seem to think that the wealthiest deserve to pay less than the middle class... after awhile these arguments turn stale.

The same is true of their fear mongering claiming only Republicans can keep America safe... when after 8 years of bush minor and his macho posturing have done little or nothing to secure our safety in the world... their Republican=patriot Democrat=weakling becomes hollow and self serving.

It is one thing to argue abortion is wrong... indeed I don't know anyone who favors it... rather instead favor the right to chose... but like opposition to gay rights/marriage and other similar stances.... are a direct contradiction of their ideal of keeping government out of peoples lives.

Norman Cantor is now backing down and is not calling their listening tour a listening tour after mush loosebowels objected that the Republicans don't need to listen to voters, that voters need to listen to Republicans... He has also said that retired General Colin Powell should quit the GOP and become a Democrat because of his criticisms of the party.

I bring these up because such stances are supremely arrogant and if the GOP takes such advice they will not only preclude the dialogue that a viable party needs to have with their fellow citizens... but also precludes the growth that constructive criticism offers.

When you have a party that talks to, dictates to and lectures voters well... its antithetical to the democratic dialogue that makes a democracy work.

I could go on at length but the point is that over the past 30+ years the GOP and conservatives have so hewed to the party line that they seem incapable of (pardon the horrid cliche) thinking outside their box.

[edit on 6-5-2009 by grover]



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


Wow... not to come off toooo condescending... but! How ironic that with your entire post… you did nothing but tout Liberal dogma, nonsense, that has been the Democratic party line since the 60's! I'm sorry but being lectured about what is wrong with Republicans by those who haven't the foggiest idea why Conservatives joined the rank and file of the Republican party is funny as hell! Nobody likes Abortion, so let's call it Pro-Choice... Now that was a classic liberal, nobody look as a life is being destroyed, it's her right to choose… Damn that was funny… I wonder if I was the only one who caught that. As far as I can tell, this thread is not championing liberal ideas...RATHER...This thread was created to tell the Republican Party to pull their heads out of their collective asses or that party will be dead for a long time to come.

As a conservative there is no way in hell I could vote for a liberal socialist, a liberal capitalist maybe. However, I could vote for a third party knowing full well my vote may put a liberal socialist in office, been there done that this last election cycle. History has shown liberals are liberals, what this thread is about, and what Conservatives in general are telling the Republican party is this. We are not sheep, we will make damn sure you lose if you don't stop your Rhino ways!

Or perhaps the Constitutionalist party is going to overtake the Republican party in the not so distance future. Either way Conservatives don't bend, we don't compromise when it comes to the Constitution and our Freedoms... And any party that goes against our non bending values, well they no longer deserve our vote or the privilege of our time.

--Charles Marcello


[edit on 6-5-2009 by littlebunny]



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by jd140
Republicans are bad.

Democrats are good.

Republicans are bad.

Democrats are good.

Yep he voted for it and is know argueing against spending. That is kind of hypocritical. Kind of like Nancy Pelosi being briefed on waterboarding and is now saying she didn't know anything about it.


Two sides of the coin playing the same game.

I guess there are some out there that still likes to play the Republican vs Democrat game.
Aren't the Democrats associated with the uneducated confederates, and the Republicans with Lincoln?

It's a con game, they point to the their opposite partner who is helping create a totalitarian government while picking your pocket.



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by littlebunny
 

There was nothing condescending in my post. As for it being the same critique that the Democrats has offered the Republicans since the 60's... I seriously doubt it... but if it is perhaps they are on to something.

I really pay little if any attention to party talking points... instead I pay attention to what is happening socially and politically and come to my own conclusions.

I have watched the GOP meltdown over the past few months and I am simply calling it like I see it.

The reality is this... American society is changing and if the party simply is not up to the task of adapting to those changes it will become irrelevant...

Becoming more right wing like mush loosebowels wants will do nothing except make the base happy but in the broader context of national politics it will simply further the parties isolation.



[edit on 7-5-2009 by grover]



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 08:29 AM
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From the Constitution Party homepage... its platform section:

www.constitutionparty.com...


The U.S. Constitution established a Republic rooted in Biblical law...

That each individual is endowed by his Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are the rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness...


(I see they followed mush loosebowels and added property which is not listed as one of the inalienable rights [yes its inalienable not unalienable] in the Declaration of Independence)


...Any legalization of the termination of innocent life of the born or unborn is a direct violation of our unalienable right to life...

...We affirm the God-given legal personhood of all unborn human beings, without exception. As to matters of rape and incest, it is unconscionable to take the life of an innocent child for the crimes of his father.


(those will really attract women's vote
)


... In addition, we oppose the funding and legalization of bio-research involving human embryonic or pre-embryonic cells...


(Progress? sounds like regress or reactionary to me)


... Our party leaders and public officials must display exemplary qualities of honesty, integrity, reliability, moral uprightness, fidelity, prudence, temperance, justice, fortitude, self-restraint, courage, kindness, and compassion...


(excuse me but we are talking about politicians here folks... get real
)


... If we are to see a return to the states those powers, programs, and sources of revenue that the federal government has unconstitutionally taken away, then it is also vital that we repeal the Seventeenth Amendment and return to state legislatures the function of electing the U.S. Senate...


(Doing so would entrench an even more entrenched oligarchy than already exists)


... Because the federal government has absolutely no jurisdiction concerning the education of our children, the United States Department of Education should be abolished; all federal legislation related to education should be repealed. No federal laws subsidizing or regulating the education of children should be enacted. Under no circumstances should the federal government be involved in national teacher certification, educational curricula, textbook selection, learning standards, comprehensive sex education, psychological and psychiatric research testing programs, and personnel...


(One of the purposes of Government is the establishment of standards and without standards of education then any jurisdiction can establish its own no matter how reasonable or extreme... in doing so the entire nation will suffer.)


... So that parents need not defy the law by refusing to send their children to schools of which they disapprove, compulsory attendance laws should be repealed....


(Its not ALL about you and what you approve of ya know... its also about what benefits society at large as well)


... The Voting Rights Act should be repealed. The Federal Election Campaign Act, including its 1974 amendments, and the Federal Election Commission should be abolished....


(there goes the minority vote along with women)

... I grow tired... there are some items I agree with but the planks I cite above as well as some others all but assure the party is going nowhere any time soon.

The true brilliance of the framers of the constitution was that they created not a static document but a living one that could adapt to the changing times and conditions... it is the key reason it has survived so long.

The ideas enunciated in this platform ignore and reject that reality and if their ideas were put into place the social stresses it would cause would cause this nation far more harm than good.

Again its not all about YOU.

The sole purpose of any government when all the rhetoric is stripped away is to provide a safe place for the raising of crops and family, everything else is icing on the cake...

The BIG difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals tend to interpret this fundamental mandate to include such things as social justice, environmental protections, a more level playing field etc... while conservatives tend to reject such ideas.

I say tend in both cases because neither is absolutely rigid on the details.

I will hand it to the writers of the Constitution party platform, they were quite through but they were also quite rigid and the heart and soul of the democratic process is compromise.




[edit on 7-5-2009 by grover]



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by grover
when they seem to think that the wealthiest deserve to pay less than the middle class... after awhile these arguments turn stale.


In what universe do the wealthy pay less than the middle class? Talk about parroting the party line — that's the same Marxist propaganda the Democrats have been using for decades, inciting class warfare in America.

By every calculation, the wealthy minority in this country carries the vast bulk of the nation's tax burden, while the middle and lower classes carry a small fraction of that burden. When 3 million wealthy Americans already pay more in income tax than 200 million middle and lower class Americans combined, then there is surely a reason for outrage, but not on the part of the middle and lower classes.

Democrats don't merely sweep this long-standing disparity under the carpet, they consistently lie about the disparity, telling their constituents that the wealthy are living the high life at the expense of the poor, poor peasants. Which is pure Marxist baloney.

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 5/7/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 08:44 AM
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I suppose you forget that Warren Buffet commented that thanks to all the tax breaks and the like he paid less in taxes than his secretary did?

Its not the rate... its the shelters, tax breaks and all that create a situation where one of the richest men in the world can say that.



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by grover
I suppose you forget that Warren Buffet commented that thanks to all the tax breaks and the like he paid less in taxes than his secretary did?


Do you think "tax breaks" are dispensed for no reason, like get out of jail free cards? Tax breaks are given in exchange for contributions to the economy, for contributions to industrial innovation and the general welfare, for making America a better place to live.

Do you even know why Warren Buffet gets his tax breaks?

I'm certainly not among the nation's wealthiest 1% or even the wealthiest 10%, but I enjoy tax breaks for my contributions to charity and for making repairs to my home (which is on the National Registry of Historic Places), for example. So you think wealthy people should not receive tax breaks for making such contributions?

Would you support tax breaks for the middle and lower classes, those who are "living from paycheck to paycheck" and who cannot afford to make such grandiose contributions to society? If you do, then you support get out of jail free cards.

— Doc Velocity



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Are you saying that people who live paycheck to pay check don't contribute to society? If so you got your head screwed on backwards... we are the people who make the nation work... we actually produce as opposed to making money on money. If anyone deserves a break its the working stiff not some stuffed shirt.



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by littlebunny
 

There was nothing condescending in my post. As for it being the same critique that the Democrats has offered the Republicans since the 60's... I seriously doubt it... but if it is perhaps they are on to something.
Why do I have a strong suspicion you just suspended my perception of disbelief! I did-in't know… Really!? Then I guess... wow dude! ... your simple observation you came up with, all on you'are own, wow... something unique this way comes... and you did-in't know that Liberals have been pushing that same sickness for years! I mean you watch the whole world, and just happen to come to those epiphanies…and… yet… did-in't know what you just spewed all over this thread was Liberal propaganda nonsensical crap! No, no... I believe you... Whatever!


I really pay little if any attention to party talking points... instead I pay attention to what is happening socially and politically and come to my own conclusions.

I have watched the GOP meltdown over the past few months and I am simply calling it like I see it.

You-are simply calling it as you see it... Wow… are you a pun-dit, can I have your autograph… I mean Mr. Olberman is that you... No???… Hmmm…. Well then, do You really expect anyone to believe you have came up with any of that crap on your own, especially over the last few months, seeing how real leftist pundits have been saying your entire two threads over and over again all over TV and the newspapers, but you just came up with it all on your own... Of course those pundits are on MSNBC and CNN, and New York Time liberal hacks... But you… YOU just happen to see it, while they’ve been talking about it… yet you just now post it as your own, after they have been spewing it for months. But your's is new to da world! Good_job!


The reality is this... American society is changing and if the party simply is not up to the task of adapting to those changes it will become irrelevant...
Wow, is this more of your own unique, what YOU have noticed wisdom? NOT, more talking head nonsense… Well if you or those liberal pundit idiots were actually paying attention… Our American society is not changing left, they are changing PISSED! Only the poor and uneducated idiots in our society are becoming more of what you just said.

Those who put into this society, you know pay taxes, give money to charities, donate their time, those people are beyond pissed! You really think Liberals have control of Congress because people really want more abortions and homosexual marriages? Of course you believe that.. I just say WOW!

Then please explain the 10 and 15 million people who voted this election cycle, who purposely chose to send a message to the Republican party AND ALLOWED a democrat to become a Senator or a House Rep? You really think people (I) did that because people (I) believe in the sickness you just spewed all over this thread? No, no... you're paying attention, you are, you are!!!


Becoming more right wing like mush loosebowels wants will do nothing except make the base happy but in the broader context of national politics it will simply further the parties isolation.


American's are center RIGHT, not center left... What America wants is for it politicians to do what they said they would. The Republican Party Betrayed us conservatives and we rebelled, not the Left is doing what America wants. Are you people really that naive? There are millions who would rather sit and watch this country burn from within then vote for the Rhinos who infect our party with the same sickness you spewed all over this thread. How dare you come here and pretend you are not speaking liberal talking points, while taking your talking points from leftist website and pundits... And then as you go off... you pretend as if America is a socialist country simply because you say so. You have said nothing new, and America already knows liberal talking points which they have rejected time and time again… Only the courts continue to defy the American people... Everyone knows what we will find at the end of that journey anyway….Communism… and even with all the anger towards our politicians America wants nothing to do with Socialism, period!

How embarrassingly sad for you… that you feel you needed to claim something that is most assuredly not yours, not new... and definitely not what America wants.

--Charles Marcello


[edit on 7-5-2009 by littlebunny]



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by RRconservative
Republicans don't get. They better wake up soon. McCain 2008 was a freaking joke. Moving away from Reagan ideals is a huge mistake.

They see what is going on with the TEA Parties, and their big idea is a "listening tour????" The people are speaking, but they are too deaf to hear.

When a party resorts to having to listen to the people, they are out of ideas and definately out of leadership. When Reagan spoke...people listened...and they definately liked what they heard. Unfortunately the Republicans have no leadership and have to resort to pandering. Pandering is not leadership.


When any party member has to do a "listening tour" my only thought is, "Where the heck has he been? How the heck did he get into office in the first place if he doesn't even know what we want? And how in heck did he even get elected to run for president much less any political faction for that?!"

If you have to do a tour like that, don't care what party you belong too you obviously don't belong in politics period. I've pretty much come to the conclusion there are no democrats vs. republicans anymore it's just $ vs. $ and who you know vs. who they know to get into office.

Just watch it won't be long and people will get fed up enough they'll just vote for the member that isn't listed as democrat or republican. Of course with our luck by that time Ron Paul would be running and we would get some joe shmo in office.



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