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GIs Told to Bring Afghans to Jesus

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posted on May, 7 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by jjkenobi
I for one don't have a problem with a military chaplain doing this. The chaplain is not their commanding officer. You are acting as if the battallion commander or two star general issued the orders and special missions or something.

You don't think Muslim in Afghan are trying to convert our soldiers to Islam?


This is not the job of our soldiers. Period.

If they are going to do this, then they should be allowed to drink and have porn. There is no difference in the offense being provided to the AFghani's here, and is a hypocrisy in military administration.




posted on May, 7 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by karl 12
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Couldn't agree more -I realise that tolerance is a two way street but
it seems the 'active abrahamic recruitment agenda' has now gone into overdrive.

Theres some more info on the OP subject here and it doesn't make for
pretty reading:
uruknet.info...
Cheers.


Wow, you sure are right, that didn't make for very pretty reading at all.

All the preaching a proselytizing in places like Iraq where Christians have lived side by side in peace with Jews and Muslims since the time of Christ all in agreement to respect each others faith wasn't nearly as disturbing to read as the fact the guys like Pat Robertson had actually had tens of thousands of Arabic language Bibles to take into Iraq a year before the invasion even happened, all the while publicly stating that Mohamed was a terrorist and Iraq should be destroyed. He actually bragged that he was ready for it to do his part to spread the true word of G-d to a place and people that had a respected Christian community well before Rome adopted the religion.

The lack of cultural understanding and respect sure is distressing, so too where the comments of Christians around the world in other democratic countries about the Evangelical movements and taking advantage of a vacuum caused by our invasion to upset the balance between the secular arrangements within Iraq that had been long standing.

Targeting young Iraqi school children desperate for basic school supplies by giving them shopping bags full of notebook paper, pencils and coloring books with Evangelical Christian Characters and themes printed just for them in their native tongue. To think crusading Christians would have probably gained great respect and thanks had they just simply put a discreet note that says this gift is brought to you by the such and such missionary or church, instead of trying to turn their disadvantage into Christians advantage.

This truly sounds to me like the kind of thing that inflames the passions and the pride of the local people of these countries we occupy.

The thing I am not sure about is whether the seemingly well intentioned but looking to capitalize on other people's misery and misfortune Christians do this out of sheer cultural ignorance...

Or if our Military Planners and Politicians know that it will in fact have the opposite effect of winning hearts and minds but instead will breed the hostilities to our occupation that they can then use to justify a prolonged occupation to hold on to the country and it's oil much longer than the average tax paying citizen of the U.S. the parents of the soldiers in harms way, and the Iraqis themselves prefer if we would but let them tend to rebuilding their own culture unmolested rather than trying to force our culture on them.

One thing is for sure if some Muslim Missionary Group moved in to say New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina giving out school supply kits to the needy Children there with coloring books depicting scenes of Mohamed and the Koran they would have all likely ended up in Guantanamo Bay or gator meat out in the bayous.

Pretty disturbing stuff indeed.



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I was listening to this story on a radio show the other day and after some digging it turns out that what is meant be being witnesses for Jesus is really by the way they carry themselves and treat others should point to their faith in Jesus but in no way trying to convert muslims that is rule #1 as far as the Army is concerned



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by kleah
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I was listening to this story on a radio show the other day and after some digging it turns out that what is meant be being witnesses for Jesus is really by the way they carry themselves and treat others should point to their faith in Jesus but in no way trying to convert muslims that is rule #1 as far as the Army is concerned


I couldn't agree more my friend, actions speak way louder than words!

Everyone the world over admires someone of honesty, courage and integrity and those words pretty much describe our troops in my oppinion.

Thanks for the post my friend.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:48 AM
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My apologies if this has been mentioned before but I just saw this and thought I would post it:

U.S. military says Afghan Bibles have been destroyed


Bibles in Afghan languages sent to a U.S. soldier at a base in Afghanistan were confiscated and destroyed to ensure that troops did not breach regulations which forbid proselytizing. That's the word from spokeswoman Major Jennifer Willis at Bagram air base near Kabul.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
My apologies if this has been mentioned before but I just saw this and thought I would post it:

U.S. military says Afghan Bibles have been destroyed


Bibles in Afghan languages sent to a U.S. soldier at a base in Afghanistan were confiscated and destroyed to ensure that troops did not breach regulations which forbid proselytizing. That's the word from spokeswoman Major Jennifer Willis at Bagram air base near Kabul.


Thanks for posting it friend. It has been posted a couple times previously in the thread but no need to appologize. You know what they say, the third time is a charm!

As with most issues the create debate that involve religion, nothing no matter how diffinitive ever resolves the debate.

You might have another three chances on this thread to post it as a result of that!

I sure do appreciate everyone and everything someone wants to post too.

The better question is should we start a thread on not that the Bibles were destroyed, or whether it was right to confiscate them and destory them...

But...what's the right way to destroy a Bible...I bet that would get about 500 replies!

Thanks!

[edit on 9/5/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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I laughed a little when I read the article and some of the responses. Neither myself nor anyone else in the units i've been in would have dreamed of handing anyone a bible over there.

To do so is begging for confrontation.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by TheEndofEvolution
I laughed a little when I read the article and some of the responses. Neither myself nor anyone else in the units i've been in would have dreamed of handing anyone a bible over there.

To do so is begging for confrontation.


I suspected this to be the truth.

A very serious question for you if you don't mind. If we let Privates, Corporals and Sargeants run the war since they are the people who mostly have to fight it, would it go quicker and be smarter, than letting the officers and politicians?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
A very serious question for you if you don't mind. If we let Privates, Corporals and Sargeants run the war since they are the people who mostly have to fight it, would it go quicker and be smarter, than letting the officers and politicians?

The military recommended to start airlifting the troops to Afghanistan on 5 October, 2001, but Bush postponed the invasion by two days saying that the date 7/10 lets the Taliban and the Afghanistanis know where the true salvation from evil comes from:


And they cried out in a loud voice:
"Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb."

Revelation 7:10


But the Taliban was busy fighting and missed the date/message. So stuff has to be done the church-going way.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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I suspected this to be the truth.

A very serious question for you if you don't mind. If we let Privates, Corporals and Sargeants run the war since they are the people who mostly have to fight it, would it go quicker and be smarter, than letting the officers and politicians?


Politicians shouldn't dabble in our business. They should be checking on our progress and the state of operations. But other than that they don't have a place in warfare. My biggest argument at the beginning of this war was that Bush was not listening to his commanders, men and women who do this for a living. He was listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney and Wolfowitz (sp?). I wouldn't follow those guys to Wal-mart much less combat.

As for military officers I'll say this. They do a good job from my experiences. They have a tough gig. It's hard to take into consideration everything from military operations, unit issues, supplies, then have to worry about civilian infrastructure, civilian opinion, local warlords, public health concerns. Most of them just weren't trained for it.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by stander

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
A very serious question for you if you don't mind. If we let Privates, Corporals and Sargeants run the war since they are the people who mostly have to fight it, would it go quicker and be smarter, than letting the officers and politicians?

The military recommended to start airlifting the troops to Afghanistan on 5 October, 2001, but Bush postponed the invasion by two days saying that the date 7/10 lets the Taliban and the Afghanistanis know where the true salvation from evil comes from:


And they cried out in a loud voice:
"Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb."

Revelation 7:10


But the Taliban was busy fighting and missed the date/message. So stuff has to be done the church-going way.


Wow! That reads like an incredibly bad low budget 'B' movie script. I find that so disturbing and so unsettling my first reaction is to say please, please tell me we did not do that?

Yet, as much as I would love someone to lie to me, and tell me otherwise I won't pretend to insult your intelligence by saying please tell me it isn't true!

Frankly if the date of invasion was selected based upon that, the is a clear violation of seperation of Church and State and those people involved with that decision should be charged for High Crimes and Misdomeanors and Treason to the State.

Our way of life is over if we do not reseperate Church and State with all haste. It has gone to far, to long, and is undermining not just our constitutional privelages and system but the very viability of our nation as a democracy.



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by TheEndofEvolution
 





Politicians shouldn't dabble in our business. They should be checking on our progress and the state of operations. But other than that they don't have a place in warfare. My biggest argument at the beginning of this war was that Bush was not listening to his commanders, men and women who do this for a living. He was listening to Rumsfeld and Cheney and Wolfowitz (sp?). I wouldn't follow those guys to Wal-mart much less combat.


This is the problem when the scions of the rich who buy their illustrious educations instead of earning them through hard work and scholastic achievement.

Nazi Germany might have won World War II if not for Hitler interfering with his General Staff of excellent logisticians and tacticians.

If they didn’t attend a military college get high grades at it and work their way up through the ranks during actual wars they really should keep out of it, I could not agree more.




As for military officers I'll say this. They do a good job from my experiences. They have a tough gig. It's hard to take into consideration everything from military operations, unit issues, supplies, then have to worry about civilian infrastructure, civilian opinion, local warlords, public health concerns. Most of them just weren't trained for it.


I am inclined to agree we have a great Officer Core but at a certain level that too becomes about the politics of appeasing a Commander in Chief who earned his rank through election on non-military criteria.

I guess what I am really trying to ask is at what level of rank do politics stop having any bearing and its all about logistics and tactics my personal opinion is Lieutenant Colonels on down are pretty much untainted and the Generals should just be seeing that the logistics are there, and the politicians should just be seeing the Generals have what they need?



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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Why is it that these born again Evangelist find the need to arrive on the crest of an invading army holding a gun in one hand and a bible on the other? The Catholic church has missions all over the world and does its missionary activities without offending locals.

The most despicable aspect of all this is that these Evangelicals prey upon children and the war ravished. I suppose they think that if one has a weak argument it is best to only deal with the vulnerable and the immature.

I have seen it myself in the UK having watched flocks of Evangelical types decent upon high school kids after school. They seem to zero in on shy and lone children of ethnic minorities rather than loud mouthed teenagers with their arses hanging out of their rolled up at the waist skirts.

[edit on 093131p://pm3148 by masonwatcher]



posted on May, 9 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
Why is it that these born again Evangelist find the need to arrive on the crest of an invading army holding a gun in one hand and a bible on the other? The Catholic church has missions all over the world and does its missionary activities without offending locals.

The most despicable aspect of all this is that these Evangelicals prey upon children and the war ravished. I suppose they think that if one has a weak argument it is best to only deal with the vulnerable and the immature.

I have seen it myself in the UK having watched flocks of Evangelical types decent upon high school kids after school. They seem to zero in on shy and lone children of ethnic minorities rather than loud mouthed teenagers with their arses hanging out of their rolled up at the waist skirts.

[edit on 093131p://pm3148 by masonwatcher]


I wish I had an answer for you my friend. I have tried to question and debate evangelicals for years now and honestly the only thing I can come up with is their beliefs cause them an incredible intollerance for people who don't share them. If you are gay, if you are promiscuous sexually, if you indluge in mood altering substances, listen to rock music, don't go to church on Sunday or are just tollerant of such people they truly believe that you are offending G-d, but moreover they can't stand how it offends them, that someone presumably would be so arrogant and misguided to do that and offend their Lord but it really just offends them they lack the power to get everyone to do things that don't offend them personally.

They seem to truly believe that if they can just impose their religious views through our Government by subverting it's politicians that they can legislate Christianity and Christian Law. They really believe if they can convert enough people through hook or by crook that they can make that happen. They truly believe they can violate any and all of their beloved scriptures in that process and to that end and at the same time to their own self enrichment and political power as long as they ask their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ foregiveness for that each and every Sunday.

They are typically completely ignorant of history and it's lessons, other people's cultures, traditions and religions and desperately imagine that everyone in the world secretly longs to view religion and morality in that same fashion but labor under some evil oppression that prevents them that they and they alone can penetrate the veil of.

The scary thing, in my very humble oppinion is that they all yearn for the Biblical Trump and consider the utter destruction of the world and life as we know it a desirable thing that they very much would like to bring about in their lifetimes to realize their version of the Kingdom of Heaven by helping to be bring them about by participating or being complicit in the destructive events that their prophecies tell them usher their mass murder of flesh and salvation of spirit in.

It is amazingly why they embrace the deceitful Jews and Zionists and overlook the fact that religion has consigned their very own savior to their version of Hell while utterly rejecting and villianizing the Muslims who actually recognize Jesus as a Holy Prophet of their shared G-d who follow many of his teachings and ways, simply because their prophecies tell them that Jesus will only return when the Jews are back in Israel.

It's the most confounding thing to be a real American and watch this happening and unfold. We had such respect in the Arab and Muslim World at the end of World War II, there was not a Muslim nation in the world who did not respect us, or have a legitimate need to fear us until this Christian Evangelical Zionist movement swept in on the heels of the ever manipulative and decietful Jewish Politcal factions.

The West and the Christians seem utterly determined to bring about Armegeddon and the more powerful international banking and corporate interests manipulate world events to make them believe it is imminent the less the Christian right and left want to do to expose it and stop it as they bank everything on their desperation for their Lords return and are utterly content to let our society and way of life spin into chaos and poverty positive that its their prophecies come true instead of just Evil men with no spirituality at all or involved looking to capitalize on their superstitions hopes and fears.

I am increasingly fearing that being tollerant of the intollerant is going to have a price no one, not even them will want to pay when there foolishness runs it course.

There may not even be a way left my friend to get these religious zealots and there influence out of our government and it is a most distressing thing to think that they are causing the rest of us this horrible guilt by association as millions of decent and peaceful men women and children suffer the violence of their quest and ambitions.

The scary thing is it is the ultra religious conservative right that is the only faction interested in trying to sieze our government under the guize of constitutional restoration and if they succeed it's only likely to get worse and not better.

Worse still the more difficult things become financially and constitutionally the more tempted people do become to subscribe to their thinking and also accept it's the work of prophecy.

The more credible that prophecy looks the more people become inclined to believe in it, shun our constitutional principals and common sense and surrender any opposition to this insane and self defeating agenda.

I admire the ingeneous planning of the people who cooked it up, I am not so admirous of the people stupid enough to fall for it!

If only they could see the evil they are doing for the evil it is.



[edit on 9/5/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I think you have succinctly articulated the entire matter. If this is the kind of awareness and knowledge there is in the US, what the heck is the government thinking allowing these freaks to vomit all over the planet?

It makes no tactical sense unless you want to sow discord and harvest war.



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


First off, in order to really grasp this you have to understand the mind of an Evangelist. The foremost duty to "ANY" person that follows in "ANY" religion is to GOD. For an Evangelist their responsibility to Evangelize goes hand in hand as they see it as doing GOD'S will to save the souls of those that do not know Jesus. It matters not in which way you reason, only the reality of GOD'S word matters.

On some parallel you could equate this to the people that our soldiers are their to fight. I in no way insinuate that they are terrorist, but the point I elude to is that a suicide bomber could no more be deterred as they see their mission as the word of GOD quite the same.

I'd rather our soldiers hand out Bibles!

Now I think that we could all agree that this would be an outright violation of the separation of Church and State if this was a State sponsored push to hand out Bibles to Muslims or otherwise. To the contrary the act being allowed does not make it sanctioned, encouraged, or sponsored and therefore is in no way a violation of Church and State. This is the act of Christians that so happen to be in the military, not the military enforcing a doctrine. Nor is it being forced upon non-practicing soldiers. So, your dog doesn't hunt.

This is merely an another attempt by those that observe no religion to use the Separation of Church and State to their favor. It is not a crime nor does it go against any law if a government employee or official evokes the name of GOD or enters into prayer while at work. In order to be a violation of the Separation of Church and State there must be a clear mandate by the Government that links them with a specific religion in an attempt to force that religion upon the people. These are the acts of those that just so happen to work in the public sector.

You can not expect that a soldier that has devoted at least 2 to 4 years of their life to the service of their country and people to be asked also that they should abandon their religion for such a time.

Furthermore, the Islamic Evangelism of Europe has long been on the march first through immigration.

Islamic Evangelism is surely on the march here in America, Most especially in our prison systems.

Now, before I get tared and feathered for being a Christian and not being a liberal card carrying member of the ACLU (of which chooses which rights they like to defend), I do not set about Evangelizing people. That's not my aim in life, and I typically do not wear my faith on my sleeve. So I (personally) don't push my faith on others. Now if it comes up in conversation or if you ask, well then you asked. However, I think that there is a place for those that Evangelize.

My greatest concern is that there are those who feel they have the right to criticize others for their "lack of faith" and also for their "BELIEF IN GOD." Some feel that they have the right to quash religion all together, when they have no more right than those that would have burnt them alive a few hundred years ago. Or like the Muslims that would most likely stone them to death in Afghanistan today for being an Atheist.

What's more, I find it even more troubling that it seems to be OK to Evangelize people into the Islamic faith and to practice it than it is to do so in the Christian on.

Take it for what it's worth, you can get your tar and feathers ready now.



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 





If they are going to do this, then they should be allowed to drink and have porn. There is no difference in the offense being provided to the Afghan's here, and is a hypocrisy in military administration.


This I can agree with. A year ago the people at my job had put together a drive to send things to our troops for the holidays. We had food, hygiene products, reading materials, etc. They told us that we could pack the car magazines because they had "offensive" pics. It would offend the Muslims!

I said that they didn't have to look at the pictures if they or any one else was going to be offended by them but they wouldn't allow us to send them.

It didn't jive with me either but you know how the gov is. They never make any sense.

The weren't even nude, bunch of prudes.



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


I think you have succinctly articulated the entire matter. If this is the kind of awareness and knowledge there is in the US, what the heck is the government thinking allowing these freaks to vomit all over the planet?

It makes no tactical sense unless you want to sow discord and harvest war.


I am sorry to say my friend my thinking is neither typical nor socially or politically embraced but simply an anomaly from a rare ‘out of the box’ rearing in my formative years, a widely travelled nomadic existence rich with varied experiences and colorful relationships, and a scholarly pursuit of knowledge and history few Americans are ever exposed too because of a cradle to coffin bombardment through institutions, media, familiar and social relationships that reinforce a grossly manipulated version of reality in their formative years that most will cling to for fear stepping outside of the “box” will exclude them from their social support networks.

Americans by and large are exposed to a constant barrage of some of the most sophisticated forms of brainwashing insidiously effective because part of that barrage entails a mass orchestration of circumstantial evidence pointing to their absolute inalienable right to freedom and self determination that is by far the most liberal and generous of any society or nation on earth.

Most Americans even now, absolutely believe they are free physically and spiritually, that their constitutional privileges and guarantees are real and that the press is untainted, unbiased, professional and accurate, and that the Government is likewise untainted and independent and subscribes to and is devoted to the protection of those liberties and freedoms.

The most enslaved person is the slave who he imagines he is free, and while many Americans are waking up to individual aspects of the deception and their slavery to it, most are still unaware of the extent of their bondage. They might throw of the ideology and false notions of what represents their hand shackles, and even then the ideology and false notions of what represents their leg shackles, but will still have their collar unfelt and unseen about their neck, and the leash that is attached to it firmly applied while still having a blindfold in place that prohibits them from seeing what else still binds them in slavery to a false illusion and ideal.

The depth of the deception that has been visited on the majority of Americans is astounding and basically encompasses almost everything they truly believe and think is right and real.

At some point even those rare few who have the intelligence, wisdom, and desire to expose to themselves every last little lie and deception they then face a moment where that which anchored them to a shared reality, social acceptance, and a strong sense of self and purpose is gone, and they have awoken to a new world where they are absolutely rudderless, shell shocked by the depth of the deception that was visited on them, and grieving for an illusion that at least gave them the comfort of some defined identity as they struggle to reinvent themselves and ascertain just where and how armed with this knowledge they fit into a society and system that is overwhelmingly stacked against them.

I was fortunate, I was taught to never subscribe to the illusion and to fight for my inalienable rights which in reality are only inalienable when you are the one who will take responsibility for them and fight for them. Most Americans believe their inalienable rights are like catsup at McDonald’s, guaranteed to be given to them with each order of fries and quarter pounder hamburger, and will not take responsibility for them and fight for them by compelling themselves to always seek the truth and speak the truth.

America my friend has been an illusion since it’s very inception, it was never a free country of patriots seeking lofty ideals, but simply one where patriots seeking lofty ideals fought for them violently stalemating their Masters who that when a small delegation of those patriots were sent to Madrid, and the Netherlands and then on to Versailles to meet with the English King to formalize that victory, discovered that the English King was simply not the King of England but the Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire and it’s treasurer and guardian that the Dutch, Spanish, English and French were all members in good standing of, in both common law and commerce, and especially banking and creditors and that a plethora of contracts and debts were still owed despite the Patriots violent and rebellious tendencies from these contracts and debts that bound each member of the Empire together in common Templar Law. Our three delegates were stripped of their titles earned through their rebellion allowed only to retain their Esquire distinction gained through the York Rites and named plenipotentiaries to the new United States of America named by the Prince Elector has only he had the right to so appoint a legally recognized entity into the Holy Roman Empire, granting our three delegates that plenipotentiary power under while reserving his own right as the new State’s Prince Elector and empowered them simply as Officers of the Court of Versailles in one delegates case, the Court of Madrid in another delegates case, and the Court of Their High Mightiness of the Netherlands in another case, to dictate to them the territorial expanse of their new State’s terrain and borders, and fully communicate their true respective powers, and to create a Constitution that would guarantee each nation and it’s creditors suitable compensation for all assets lost in the process of transfer of ownership and to guarantee all other creditors repayment of their debt and that they had a choice through him as a Prince Elector of the Holy Roman Empire to have him elect, appoint and anoint a King of their collective choosing for the new state or to found their new State on the principals of the Roman Republic whose common laws with both the Roman Empire and Holy Roman Empire would bind all the said above entities together, and to create a City State similar to London to be the new State’s Capital that would not be bound by the new States Laws of their own crafting but the Templar Laws that bound them all together in the Holy Roman Empire. The War of 1812 was subsequently fought when the Holy Roman Empire crumbled on paper to reassert those contractual obligations from the Treaty of Paris. Eight delegates from the United States of America including John Adams who previously had been one of the three Delegates for the Treaty of Paris then signed the Treaty of Ghent all eight sharing the same title in Latin identifying themselves as the Committee of Eight established in 842 by the Roman State of Seborga as being those Eight who know the place of the Imperial Scepter and the Holy Sepulcher and in so doing identified themselves as the Island Nation that Seborga had been granted through Treaty to always maintain as part of it’s defense as an original State of the Roman Republic, Roman Empire, and Holy Roman Empire, and the resting place of the Scepter and the Sepulcher and the Roman State’s Holiest site since the first days of the Republic and the home of the Abbey whose Prince Elector Abbot appointed one of his own and seven influential knights of Europe who had stopped there to pray on their way to the Crusades after giving up all their wealth in exchange to become known, designated and Christened the Poor Knights of Christ whose fame and exploits on the battle fields would soon lead to them being given the privilege, prize and distinction of being allowed to encamp on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem where they would then be named the Nights Templar, as in the Templar Knights whose York Rites created the Law that binds all States of the fully functional, still in business, still hard at work conquering the world Roman Empire.

You might want to watch those Masons a bit closer my friend because the United States of America has been from it’s inception nothing but a Masonic plot to reinstitute Caesars very own 13th Legion.

That is the true depth of the deception known to very few provable by even fewer, sealed in Secret Committees of Congress mentioned in both Treaties as having taken place that likely seldom if ever see the light of day.

Christianity itself was simply a mass deceptive undertaking to further Rome’s conquests without an Army that had long been bled White or the bankrupting costs of Bread and Circuses to continue on with world domination not quite complete.

Would you like to have to explain that to the typical Christian American my friend?

The Seaborgans, Templars, Masons all have a contractual right to reject any religion.

Rome would be better served by a return to complete respect for all people’s G-ds in the Empire and while their conquest seems nearly unstoppable and nearly complete when Iran’s President greets Larry King the CNN Talk Show Host as a Master Mason greeting one of lesser rank, we can only hope if the Empire wins there will be a return to it’s better traditions.

Ignorance can be as blissful as it can be deadly my friend.

I do what I can though. As you do, as we all should.



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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On second thought, maybe converting them before burning them is a good tactic?

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on May, 10 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by lazy1981
 


Friend I do appreciate your honest reply and understand from where your ideals and principals come as an Evangelist, as a person of the Christian Faith.

That though is a singular perspective that does not first consider things like.

Military Doctrine...

Military Strategy...

Winning occupied people's hearts and minds...

The Culture of the people you wish to express these ideals too...

The Constitutional Laws of the Nation in which those people live in, that our tropps are only their to help to see to that establishment and security of that government and those laws their own constitutional process allows for.

In fact under Afghanistans Constitution it is as illegal and punishable for a Muslim to attempt to convert a Christian as it is for a Christian to convert a Muslim.

So while these events from your singular perspective might seem appopriate and fair from all these other perspectives they are innapropriate as either being not the right time and not the right place or being against various laws and codes.

While your singular perspective allows you to form ideals and ideas based solely upon it that in and of itself does not mean the ideal or idea is a sound one, or proper one, or productive one, in every place, time and set of circumstances you imagine it to be.

It is why those Bibles in fact were confiscated by commanding Officers following Military Law, Policy, Our and Afghanistan's Constitution and well within their rights to do so under those respective powers.

Our troops as troops have no more right to convert souls to another religion because they believe in that faith, than they do to attempt to turn Afghanistan restaurants in to McDonald's Franchises, or Afghanistan Libraries into Adult Book and Novelty Stores, even though like you McDonald's and the Adult Entertainment Industry would love them too.

It's not their mission as Soldiers which first and foremost they are.

I have travelled broadly in my life and have had many Muslim friends and business associates over the years. None of which have even remotely tried to convert me, all of whom respected me immensely as an individual because I treated each first as a human being and then as someone with a distinct cultural identity from a place whose history and culture I took the time to acquaint myself with, and as someone who did not pry into, or take exception of their faith and spirituality. They were all fine people, who honored their personal and business agreements with me and treated me with generous kindness, respect and hospitality and honestly my friend I sincerely doubt you personally know anyone well of the Islamic faith to draw your personal conclusions from but simply a politically and religiously tainted view of Muslims in general that was brought to you through Medias, Orginizations and Mediums whose agenda was well served by teaching you that perception that I feel is very false and misleading and detrimental to anyone who holds it as the truth who has no first hand knowledge with a wide variety of people who share the Islamic faith which happens to be the largest numerical group of human beings on the planet that share it.

Over the years I have had Scientologists, Moonies, various Christian subsects, some Hindu and Vedic cults attempt to convert me through interupting my passage along a street or through a pulic park, or knocking at my door at home or entering my place of business to hand out literature or engage me in conversation but I honestly have never had one single solitary occurence of a Muslim doing that to me personally in such a fashion, or every witnessed one doing so in such a fashion, and while I am inclined to believe you get this impression through a long abandoned doctrine the Islamic faith gave up after the last of the Three Holy Crusades...I would like you to in all fairness ask yourself where it is and how it is you have this perception of Muslims bent on converting people of other faiths to their own?

I have had Muslims inform me they intend to pray for me, Christians inform me they were going to pray for me, and Jews and Hebrews inform me they are going to pray for me, but that's not an attempt to convert me, but simply their own spiritual way of asking that something divine come in to my life because of their concern or affection for me as a human being.

I honestly in each and every occassion ask them not to do that regardless of their faith for while I am not religious I believe in many of the common sense and wise teachings put forth by many religions including the "Good Lord helps those most who help them selves" so I do prefer no one pray for me, as I am more than capable of helping myself.

Much of my professional career has been in sales, and while it is very important to know your own product extremely well and to be able to express confident enthusiasm about it, it's also very important to know your competitors product very well so you can highlight the important differences that do give one product an advantage and a value over another.

I think you have a right as a human being to promote your religion and to sell it to those who see the value in it, but I aslo believe you have a responsibility to know equally as well your competitors product, and I must confress I do not know a great deal about Islam but I do know a great deal more about it than most Christians do, and have encountered many Christians with very innacurate and false perceptions about Islam that would leave them at a distinct and total disadvantage in trying to extoll the virtues of their faith's teachings as opposed to the Muslim's faith teachings.

Your response was based on your own unique love for your Faith and it's principals, but if you took the time to read this thread you would find that many soldiers who have been in Afghanistan have posted to this thread stating clearly about the most dangerous and inflamatory thing they could possibly do over there would be to hand out Bibles. Even the nation of Israel has laws against distributing Bibles and will arrest people who do, confiscate and burn them. Islam is not the only faith that does not welcome attempts at conversions, and Afghanistan is not the only nation that prohibits it through constiutional Law.

So while your intentions are good to you, and seemingly good for you, should you decide to express those intentions as you imagine these soldiers could and should, by you yourself traveling to Afghanistan and attempting to do the same thing, you would be violating that nation's constitutional laws, as would any Muslim who tried to convert you, and you would be likely risking life and limb in that process that some societies and nations allow for in expressing freedom of religion like the United States of America, and some societies do not allow for in expressing freedom of religion like Israel.

Now honestly if my own personal mission were to convert citizens of Afghanistan who are Muslim to Christianity, I would first carefully study their culture and history, and then read their own faith's religious text cover to cover until I had a good basic understanding of them, so I could talk intelligently and respectfully with anyone who was a member of that religion in appropriate circumstances where such dialougue was welcome so that I could illustrate what made my choice to accept and subscribe to another faith valid to me in a respectful way that perhaps might seem valid to them as well or at the very least understood and respected by them. It might not make me a convert mind you, but it would likely make me a friend by giving someone a chance to let me get to know them better and me to know them.

Now maybe that doesn't seem a sensible thing to do to you but it seems quite sensible to me.

I respect that you feel the way you do and likewise respect that you likely haven't considered each aspect that the undertaking you are advocating entails and factors in.

This does not appear in any religious text that I know of but one of my favorite bits of homespum wisdom that comprise my own personal code of conduct and phillosophy in life is...

"The best laid intentions of Mice and Men often add up to not"

Some people when they say that saying substitute Fool for Mice.

Thank you for politely sharing your thoughts, those are mine.



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