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Court rules for [illegal] immigrant in ID theft case

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posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:06 AM
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Court rules for [illegal] immigrant in ID theft case


www.breitbart.com

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court has ruled that an undocumented immigrant who uses a phony Social Security number to get work should not be considered an identity thief unless prosecutors can prove he knew the number belonged to a real person.

The court ruled unanimously Monday in favor of Ignacio Carlos Flores-Figueroa, an undocumented worker from Mexico, who was given an additional two years in prison for aggravated identity theft. He presented his employer with Social Security and al
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:06 AM
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I'm saying up front that I added [illegal] to the title. Mods, please do not change the title because nobody will read it the way it was titled and THAT IS WHY the bigger issue here will be ignored by people. If you absolutely must, then transfer it over to another forum INSTEAD of changing the title.

1.) This article is not only an example of extreme media bias on illegals but is blatently WRONG! This man IS NOT an immigrant. The only reference to his status is "undocumented" and I bet if they could've they would have put that word in small print.

2.) This ILLEGAL immigrant used manufactured documents (social security cards, etc.) to get employment and other benefits in this country. He was arrested and jailed for ID theft but the Supreme Court ruled that prosecutors had to prove he knew that the SSN belonged to another person.

This is outrageous! You know what? I say ALL illegals are stealing our identities! They not only steal government benefits (that we pay for) and jobs with false documents but they are in effect saying that they are American. Now that's an identity stolen even if our liberal courts don't punish them for it.

Is it fair? No! Is it just? No! Does anyone care? Probably, but they won't hear about it because the media continues to do cover up jobs like this article!

www.breitbart.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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S&F for putting this out there... and unfortunately getting me all riled up. Crap like this is what is going to destroy our country. Yes, destroy it. There will be no more "USA" when half the people who live here aren't legal citizens. Utterly ridiculous. We can't stop illegals from camping on our property, stealing our identity, filling up our prisons, bankrupting hospitals by getting free treatment, working under the table, list goes on.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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i AGREE with the court's desicion....

most of undocumented immigrants use Fake IDs and social security numbers just to work, they do not want to do harm to anymone..

finally a good desicion from the courts!



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman


I'm saying up front that I added [illegal] to the title. Mods, please do not change the title because nobody will read it the way it was titled and THAT IS WHY the bigger issue here will be ignored by people. If you absolutely must, then transfer it over to another forum INSTEAD of changing the title.

1.) This article is not only an example of extreme media bias on illegals but is blatently WRONG! This man IS NOT an immigrant. The only reference to his status is "undocumented" and I bet if they could've they would have put that word in small print.

2.) This ILLEGAL immigrant used manufactured documents (social security cards, etc.) to get employment and other benefits in this country. He was arrested and jailed for ID theft but the Supreme Court ruled that prosecutors had to prove he knew that the SSN belonged to another person.

This is outrageous! You know what? I say ALL illegals are stealing our identities! They not only steal government benefits (that we pay for) and jobs with false documents but they are in effect saying that they are American. Now that's an identity stolen even if our liberal courts don't punish them for it.

Is it fair? No! Is it just? No! Does anyone care? Probably, but they won't hear about it because the media continues to do cover up jobs like this article!

www.breitbart.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


This my friend is the wave of the future. It's all about the money!! Illegals falsify documents,pay in income taxes and social security taxes. They never file for returns. Multiply the number of illegals by a conservative ammount,say $25 dollars a week. That is the reason the government doesn't want to challenge the illegal tidal wave.

I agree that illegals are in essence stealing our national identity. The politically correct "right speak",calling them immigrants makes me somewhat ill. The word immigrant conjures up the feeling of legality,as most of our ancestors immigrated to this country"legally".
Next I suppose the "right speak" for murder will be "unsolicited termination"



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
 


Good lord! This pisses me off. I'm telling you the biggest problem with American Legal System is the number of lawyers. The only a-holes who ever win in court are the lawyers. No one else.

Now, you got people who can't be prosecuted for identity theft if they dont' know the SSN belonged to a living person. How stupid is that?! Are they gonna make illegal people background check their stolen SSN? Its like saying gun control will stop criminals from getting guns.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by daddyroo45
 


They never file for returns????

where do you get your news from...i have known many undocumented immigrants that file for returns, etc, etc...

when i read that i just realized how messed up, fake, and propagandist the anti-immigrant movement is...



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by Next_Heap_With
 



i AGREE with the court's desicion....

most of undocumented immigrants use Fake IDs and social security numbers just to work, they do not want to do harm to anymone..

I have a Hungarian friend who just wants to work in the US for a little bit to help get some cash. Can he use your Social? I bet the person whose number he used won't/doesn't think it was just a harmless little act of an illegal immigrant just wanting to work a little bit.

Using someone's Social is illegal, it doesn't matter the intent. Possessing a fake ID is too.

Is the employer going to get slapped for hiring someone illegally? They should've been more diligent in the background check.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by Next_Heap_With
reply to post by daddyroo45
 


They never file for returns????

where do you get your news from...i have known many undocumented immigrants that file for returns, etc, etc...

when i read that i just realized how messed up, fake, and propagandist the anti-immigrant movement is...


Do you suppose that the few that do file against a counterfit social security number are breaking any laws? I actually have a son-in law that is an illegal alien. We are working to get him legal. He does not use a social security number,he works for cash. Even though I like the man a great deal,he is here illegally.The ONLY reason I have not turned him in,is to keep my family intact. Even that fact is starting to wear very thin!



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by Next_Heap_With
 



when i read that i just realized how messed up, fake, and propagandist the anti-immigrant movement is

No one is anti-immigrant. MANY are anti-illegal immigrant. What is wrong with wanting people to obey the law...or does that not matter anymore?

Try going to another country and stay past the tourist visa range and see what happens. I think that the US is the only country that diddles around so much with immigration and the only reason that is is because we have to be "PC" all the time and not offend anyone.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by jjkenobi
Crap like this is what is going to destroy our country. Yes, destroy it. There will be no more "USA" when half the people who live here aren't legal citizens.


1) ummm, no corrupt bailouts, illegal invasions, israeli lobbyists and big pharma is destroying your country, not 'recent' settlers.

2) Yes there will be no more legal citizens soon. Wow it's like deja vu again for the natives.


so in effect

1a) Stop putting the biggest of blames on people wanting to work or feed families when your elected officials are the ones to blame.

2a) You are not native to this land. This land does not belong to you.


Media bias? LOL
they call settlers immmigrants, then they went from illegal immigrants to illegal aliens.

media bias?
LMAO



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by octotom
 


the only laws that should exist should be against murder, rape or acts that will harm someone against the person's will...

the rest is all crap really, the universe has no division lines, nations and patrotism for a nation is a false and very harmful concept (harmful to makind and peace).

for godness sake, some people are living in misery, have some compation and let them work to survive....



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Next_Heap_With
reply to post by daddyroo45
 


They never file for returns????

where do you get your news from...i have known many undocumented immigrants that file for returns, etc, etc...

when i read that i just realized how messed up, fake, and propagandist the anti-immigrant movement is...



They never file for returns????

Living down here in southern N.M., I have tend to agree with daddyroo45. I know quite a few illegals that have regular jobs that won't file for the risk of getting flagged and deported. They would just prefer to stay low-key.


where do you get your news from...i have known many undocumented immigrants that file for returns, etc, etc...


That's the problem. Where and how would you be able to get the stats one way or the other? As you said they are "undocumented". They don't exist. Using someone else's ss# just puts that income on that person.
Using a fake # gets you in door for employment. The employers don't check the validity of the number, the IRS does. The IRS doesn't have the resources to check every number to see if in fact that it belongs to said person at said job.
By the time and "if" that number comes up, said person no longer works there. They get another job the same way and the process starts all over again, quite simple.
They even have checking accts. to help them look more legal. How you ask? Again, quite simple, you just add said person's name on someone else's acct. and get checks printed with said person's name on it.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Next_Heap_With
reply to post by octotom
 


the only laws that should exist should be against murder, rape or acts that will harm someone against the person's will...

the rest is all crap really, the universe has no division lines, nations and patrotism for a nation is a false and very harmful concept (harmful to makind and peace).



I find it rather alarming that you do not believe stealing someone's identity and probably ruining their credit and so on, is not an act that will harm someone against the person's will. You feel it is ok to steal someone else's identity. It is my will that nobody uses my identity. So, if someone steals it, they are harming me against my will.



Why dont you allow these illegals to use your social security number than? Its all fine until it happens to you. As long as your precious little life is safe from all, it just does not matter.

This is one of the things wrong with this country. As long as it does not affect me, than it is OK.


As far as the story goes in the opening post, this is just another case of our government appeasing to criminals, whether it be corporate criminals or illegals (which are criminals by the way). And as long as we have voting citizens who do not care about these issues, the issues will only get bigger and worse. Thanks voters!


[edit on 5-5-2009 by inked up]



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:36 AM
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I lived as an illegal immigrant for 25 years. My parents came to the US when I was a baby, over extended their visa and never looked back. We all had social security cards which were given to us freely by the local friendly social security office with no questions asked.

I paid into the system via my legally obtained SS card, and you're damn right that I filed for my returns ever year, as I did my parents.

I worked, went to school, got goverment grants to go to college, filed my taxes, voted, and basically lived the American "dream".

No one cared, no one asked, no one ever questioned any of my documents - Until 9/11. I knew that day, things would get tougher. It took awhile, we are white, speak English like the natives, and lived pretty unassuming lives but eventually somewhere, somehow someone asked the right questions.

In the end I voluntarily deported, I didn't want spend the 50k my lawyer assured me would get me citizenship.

That's why I get so annoyed when people make statements about coming to this country legally, going through the right channels - the right channels cost a lot of money. The truth is, you don't want people coming to your country who can't afford the ridiculous expense of doing it "legal" , those people are mainly the people of poor countries like Mexico.

No more USA? You mean that great nation of immigrants which has borrowed culture from many cultures? You mean that welcoming country which has as a national monument a statue which welcomes the poor and disenfranchised?

People shouldn't forget that an illegal immigrant is firstly a human being with hopes and dreams just like yours.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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Some reading for those who think it is ok for illegals (criminals) to steal other people's identity and skirt the law:



www.standard.net...

In testimony before a legislative committee, Utah Assistant Attorney General Richard Hamp noted that 90 percent of the identity-theft cases he prosecutes are driven by illegal immigrants using someone else's Social Security number. Workforce Services officials also found that the Social Security numbers of thousands of Utah children were being used by illegal aliens to obtain jobs.


In a news release, Attorney General Mark Shurtleff noted that the "ongoing investigation has uncovered an alarming new crime spree involving illegal aliens and identities stolen from victims under the age of 12" (attorneygeneral.utah.gov...).


It is important to note that falsifying a Social Security number in order to obtain a job is a felony, and it does result in victims.


With half of all Social Security numbers assigned, the trend is likely to only become worse as the unissued, but compromised, numbers are assigned to newborns unless Gov. Huntsman and legislators take action to control it.



More articles to read:



www.lemarssentinel.com...
That means people who want a legitimate Social Security number end up stealing someone else's existing number.

For immigrants who have illegally crossed into the United States, that may mean buying a Social Security number and identity from someone who has already acquired those identities and is offering them for sale

"The people that come here that we've talked to and debriefed say, basically, they know where they can go and get an ID," Raymond said. "There's a market out there."

In Bear County, Texas, he said, it's a real business.





www.desmoinesregister.com.../20080519/NEWS/805190316

An investigation by MSNBC in 2005 found that a Social Security number from suburban Chicago had been used by illegal immigrants to get jobs at 37 businesses. "People need to wake up to this problem," Richard Hamp, an assistant attorney general in Utah, told MSNBC.com. "They are destroying people's credit, Social Security benefits and everything else. This problem has been ignored by the federal government, and it's enormous."





There are a ton more out there. But maybe some people really do not care about theft. Guess some people believe its a free for all.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by inked up]



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Merigold
I lived as an illegal immigrant for 25 years. My parents came to the US when I was a baby, over extended their visa and never looked back. We all had social security cards which were given to us freely by the local friendly social security office with no questions asked.

I paid into the system via my legally obtained SS card, and you're damn right that I filed for my returns ever year, as I did my parents.

I worked, went to school, got goverment grants to go to college, filed my taxes, voted, and basically lived the American "dream".

No one cared, no one asked, no one ever questioned any of my documents - Until 9/11. I knew that day, things would get tougher. It took awhile, we are white, speak English like the natives, and lived pretty unassuming lives but eventually somewhere, somehow someone asked the right questions.

In the end I voluntarily deported, I didn't want spend the 50k my lawyer assured me would get me citizenship.

That's why I get so annoyed when people make statements about coming to this country legally, going through the right channels - the right channels cost a lot of money. The truth is, you don't want people coming to your country who can't afford the ridiculous expense of doing it "legal" , those people are mainly the people of poor countries like Mexico.

No more USA? You mean that great nation of immigrants which has borrowed culture from many cultures? You mean that welcoming country which has as a national monument a statue which welcomes the poor and disenfranchised?

People shouldn't forget that an illegal immigrant is firstly a human being with hopes and dreams just like yours.





How did you get a social security number? Did you provide false birth record documents? If so, then you are a criminal as well. Lying is not a defense in any circumstance.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Next_Heap_With
reply to post by daddyroo45
 


They never file for returns????

where do you get your news from...i have known many undocumented immigrants that file for returns, etc, etc...

when i read that i just realized how messed up, fake, and propagandist the anti-immigrant movement is...


The only reason they would file is to sustain the lie that they are legally documented, oh, and, of course, to get money BACK.



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Merigold


In the end I voluntarily deported, I didn't want spend the 50k my lawyer assured me would get me citizenship.

That's why I get so annoyed when people make statements about coming to this country legally, going through the right channels - the right channels cost a lot of money. The truth is, you don't want people coming to your country who can't afford the ridiculous expense of doing it "legal" , those people are mainly the people of poor countries like Mexico.

No more USA? You mean that great nation of immigrants which has borrowed culture from many cultures? You mean that welcoming country which has as a national monument a statue which welcomes the poor and disenfranchised?

People shouldn't forget that an illegal immigrant is firstly a human being with hopes and dreams just like yours.






Sorry Merigold, I deleted some of your quote to save space...

If you pay the 50k, we, the great people of the United States will give it back to you and you don't have to pay it back. What a deal! Me being a 'natural-born' citizen am not qualified for this program-

titancommerciallending.wordpress.com...

"This country was founded on the melting pot of migrants that traveled here to start a new life. Obviously that is still an ongoing tradition being practiced today. However the times have changed and we have created a nation where an immigrant to the United States is eligible for grants, loans, tax breaks, business assistance, and minority privileges, that many natural born citizens are not privy to."

And here's a list of business grants just for immigrants. Again, me being a U.S. 'normee', I don't qualify-

www.womensbusinessgrants.com...

As far as gov't loans and grants for illegals, just punch in "government loans,illegal immigrant" on your serch engine. Too many to list.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by geo1066]



posted on May, 5 2009 @ 02:08 PM
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Borders don't exist any more than God does.

BORDERS ARE NOT REAL. WE ARE MEXICO. CANADA IS THE US.




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