potential civil war here???

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by sticky
TPTB better start killing us off in a hurry. WTSHTF, the 3% you speak about might become 15%!

Really?

And when are they going to do that?

Before or after a visit to Cinnabon?

I'm afraid the days of revolutionaries have gone the way of scurvy. It would take a lot more than gun legislation to get people away from their computers, out of their basements, and into their Fiat/Chrysler truck and onto a revolutionary path.

I would not hold my breath on that thought... I think with the tension that is presently brewing here in the states... it might not take to much to start something the government will long regret... but in the end I think it will be by their doing when it does break loose

reply to post by lilwolf


Well ...

Gun control was not a major issue in the 2004 Presidential campaign nor does it appear to be a prominent issue in the 2008 campaign. The percentage of Americans who consider "gun control" as an important issue has declined from 3% to 1%. newsbatch

Even if we assume that all the recent fear mongering has had some effect on these numbers they are still extremely low.

Nope, ain't going to be a revolution when so few peeps believe this to be a major issue. Unfortunately what will keep happening is situations like with the recent Pittsburgh killings. Some, with to much Fox news and "white power" website access are going to lose the plot and kill innocent folk, and in the process do more damage to the pro-gun agenda than Mr. Obama ever could.

reply to post by lilwolf


I think your situation can be found nationwide / worldwide. I am guessing that your business which you speak of is not the gun dealership? If so that is a good sign of how really bad we are economically. I would have assumed that with the high gun and ammo sales of the last year would have benefitted that business of yours.

It is easy to get caught up in the news and talk on the internet. Alot of what can be heard out here is of these SHTF scenario's. However, when you drive down the street, go the the mall, dinner, or just plain away from cyber world, it doesn't appear the same as spoken of in cyberland.

Not to make light of all the prblems we have which are crushing blows to most everyone. Simply put, the lifestyles of most Americans will be diminished. Many will need to be subsidised by the gov. in some way to make it.

But again, I still do not believe we will see SHTF as is sensationalized by many. Rather a slow, slow painful deterioration with much frustration, stress, and depression amongst many citizens.

Violent Civil war? I doubt it will ever happen. People couldn't even agree why they were at the TEA parties. Most people in this country don't know which continent they are on. Hell, Sarah Palin didn't even know that Africa was a continent.

Most people don't know or even talk to their neghbors. They go from work to the couch - maybe a movie night, dinner or to church, and thats about it. Getting people in this country to even get out and vote is a tragic joke.

I don't think We as Americans have even begun to pursue the reasonable, rational non-violent means to changing our country. To even think of Civil War before exhausting other means is ludicrous.

Folks who think war is the answer, clearly haven't a clue what it means. Just imagine New Orleans after the hurricane, but everywhere, and worse. Imagine everthing you take for granted not working: electricity, water, food, shelter - and then imagine the threat of sudden and violent death for you and your family, lurking around every corner.

Think you've got the stones for war? Think again.

Originally posted by lilwolf

I think with the tension that is presently brewing here in the states... it might not take to much to start something the government will long regret... but in the end I think it will be by their doing when it does break loose

So how do you tell the tyrannical government people from innocent people just wondering what all the ruckus is about. Are you gonna just march on Washington and start killing men over 50 that wear expensive suits.

Originally posted by FX44rice
As an owner of several guns Hand to assault rifle, I can only state what I would or will do if we are continually stripped of const. rights.

Realistically if the Feds or MP's came to my home demanding my guns because of new legislation passed, I would have to comply. The real issue is each individual will have to comply or what? Start firing? Or better yet are we to organize and fight against our military? I know the outcome of that and I don't want to die or be imprisoned forever.

The reality is it has to stop at the legislative level. I don't want to lose the rights believe me. So maybe we should embark on a 10 million gun owner march in DC. That would probably be much more beneficial, if it looked as though we were in serious jeopardy of losing gun ownership.

I agree.. In most cases I would decide it's not really worth my life. However, if they'll kill me anyways.. What is there to lose?

Its hard to know if you'd fire or not, until they are knocking on your door.

reply to post by Smack

Smack, for the sake of exercise, turn around one of your postulations. Just for fun.

Assume some catastrophic event occurs. An epidemic. A key assassination. A geological catastrophe. A terrorist-created catastrophe. A financial meltdown. Anything that would spread chaos and kick off an bit of anarchy.

Transportation shuts down. Banks close. Businesses close. Everyone is staying home. Now, those who suddenly are hungry because there is no money, and no grocery stores to shop in or loot, everything we now know and take for granted has suddenly been thrust into the fire.

Thus, the anarchy and chaos will be compounded until such time as it has burned itself out. Literally.

Now tell me about civil war.

Civil war didn't cause the collapse. The collapse of a very delicate balancing act just underneath a very thin veneer of civilization would precipitate organization by States.

States who would never again lst the Fed gain the unconstitutional control they once had.

I just don't think we're all going to arm up with weapons and pitchforks and attack Washington.

I think it is more likely that an event will be the catalyst to set in motion a return to organization by the States.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Smack

 

Smack, for the sake of exercise, turn around one of your postulations. Just for fun.

Assume some catastrophic event occurs. An epidemic. A key assassination. A geological catastrophe. A terrorist-created catastrophe. A financial meltdown. Anything that would spread chaos and kick off an bit of anarchy.

Transportation shuts down. Banks close. Businesses close. Everyone is staying home. Now, those who suddenly are hungry because there is no money, and no grocery stores to shop in or loot, everything we now know and take for granted has suddenly been thrust into the fire.

Thus, the anarchy and chaos will be compounded until such time as it has burned itself out. Literally.

Now tell me about civil war.

Civil war didn't cause the collapse. The collapse of a very delicate balancing act just underneath a very thin veneer of civilization would precipitate organization by States.

States who would never again lst the Fed gain the unconstitutional control they once had.

I just don't think we're all going to arm up with weapons and pitchforks and attack Washington.

I think it is more likely that an event will be the catalyst to set in motion a return to organization by the States.

Its very unlikely that people in America would rise up like that. We seem to lack what people in other countries seem to understand. Americans seem to assume that.. the government is going to protect them, and would never do wrong on them.

reply to post by dooper

You make a good point. A Wild Card out there would stir up some chaos for sure. I believe the civil enforcement infrastructure is large enough to curtail the citizens that actually want to loot, kill, and vandalize their neighbors, in reasonable time. I think in reality those that will participate to cause harm will be far less than you think. I think the majority will react with civility.

reply to post by FX44rice


You know, I thought so too. But then I got to thinking about what happened in Liberty City over next to nothing. Then there were the Los Angeles riots. Years ago in New York.

Then our most recent reflection of what happens when things go wrong. New Orleans.

Unfortunately, after reviewing this, I would say the cities will be the hardest hit. Those in the country will not go on a rampage, because what are they going to do? Burn their own barns?

Transportation is the lifeblood of our nation. Trucking would stop. No transport, no food. In the larger cities, those who would not take a chance to go to work would compound the closures, leading to shortages and then outages.

Even those who maintain our power grid would not be able to maintain our system.

Just one item, and like a snowball, the wheels fall off the wagon.

[edit on 5/5/2009 by RR98]

reply to post by lilwolf


Some will fight, but most won't. Probably not enough to be successful, unless there's some major event. And I'm talking uber-major, like Waco on the scale of a large town or even a city, or a large scale protest that ends up going the way university protests went during Vietnam era. Something that really pisses off the masses.

Ultimately, it would be difficult for a resistance to coordinate anything, since I assume that communication is heavily monitored by TPTB, and the government would crack down as fast as they could find them. Who knows though, it may reach a point where they just don't have the resources to stop anything from happening.

reply to post by lilwolf


deh gonna take muh guns frum meh... save us all jebus.

civil war will never happen in the us ever again... the balance of firepower between the number one military in the world versus the firepower of the people is so lop sided its unbelievable. Most if not all of these gun control threads are disinformation by the right wing to make you believe Barry is gonna come and take your guns away from you, its not gonna happen. I am not partisan in anyway, I have no agenda...

Civil War can, and most likely will occur. As the above poster mentioned, all it a takes is a key assasination (not necessarily the president, but the one who is pulling his strings) an epidemic (which we were threatened with), a financial meltdown, a just a few of the myriad things that can lead us into a civil war.
A war of this nature would not necessarily be like our previous civil war.
Have you ever heard of an underground? There are people in key positions of government (national, state, local) who are sympathetic with the citizenry of this country.
Churches have long been hotbeds of insurrection, depending on the times, as have bars and pubs.
An underground economy has already formed. What makes you think a political underground meant to overthrow the present fascist regeime and restore us to the constitutional form of government as intended by our founding fathers? All it takes is people who know how to keep their mouths shut, and people who are willting to fight when they have too.
I believe the American people will come to realize that this may be the only way to restore our freedoms.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Well 2009 is really just getting started so The real tax amount isn't clear yet. Last I checked it was somewhat over $30,000 per person in this country. I'm sure there are several more HUGE expenditures comming.
The ballon just keeps getting bigger!

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by lilwolf

 

Well ...

Gun control was not a major issue in the 2004 Presidential campaign nor does it appear to be a prominent issue in the 2008 campaign. The percentage of Americans who consider "gun control" as an important issue has declined from 3% to 1%. newsbatch

Even if we assume that all the recent fear mongering has had some effect on these numbers they are still extremely low.

Nope, ain't going to be a revolution when so few peeps believe this to be a major issue. Unfortunately what will keep happening is situations like with the recent Pittsburgh killings. Some, with to much Fox news and "white power" website access are going to lose the plot and kill innocent folk, and in the process do more damage to the pro-gun agenda than Mr. Obama ever could.

Your article is dated in 2008.... and since the anointed one has gotten in there...look at how many bills have been and are being designed.... it has come to a point where several states have passed laws stating that there are certain things the state will not agree with...and all of them have the 2nd on it.. Then we have different remarks (that are conflicting) as to whether they will introduce new legislation upon us or not... I think they will...sales are through the roof and people know something is about to be sprung upon us.
I hope no one takes him out... but then not one of us can predict anything .
It might be a small thing an a so called non issue...but if there were nothing to it... the states would not be taking some very drastic steps to curtail the govt. this might start in what is being called a "soft tyranny" type thing at this point... but when they take the step this will go full blown. At this point with all the stress of losing a home, job...and nothing being very solid for people... it is not going to take a great deal to actually start it off... I do hope I am wrong...

I use the term lightly but the survival types (the good ones) are putting away for family and freind...and they are gearing up for a battle... They do not worry me as much as the hard line racist types...they are the dangerous ones.... but only time is going to tell now...

I just figure it would be better to be alert to what is going on...and as the boys scouts say.."be prepared"

Well the opinions are mixed so far as I can tell from these responses. Its hard to say what people will do in any hypothetical situation. Consider the bailouts of last Fall. Apparently the majority of citizens were against them yet they were rammed through anyway. The way the new administration is acting out of haste to push through an agenda that does not seem to reflect the campaign promises, the dual-citizenship amongst the majority of cabinet members appointed by Obama with amazing speed.

It is clear that there will be no consensus amongst us. We have been successfully divided along political, economic, educational, spiritual, sexual, class and race lines. So, there will be no consensus in America. The education system was hijacked a generation ago. Our future leaders were taught not how to think adequately but how to regurgitate the correct responses. Pride in our country has turned instead into the heated call for transnationalism, a global community of international laws and control.

We are looking at an entirely different America than the one I used to think we had. No! I did not do my duty when it counted and now my country is divided.

A civil war will demand a consensus amongst us. Clearly that isn't going to happen based on the responses here. If we can imagine that our little group here reflects some portion of the entire U.S. population, there is no denying that America has been divided in its ideologies and priorities.

So, we've been fooled. No patriotic furor will infect the masses and spur on a well-motivated and honorable taking back of our country from the elected theives and liars. Its too late. TPB have all the time in the world and they have done an excellent job of distraction, diversion and manipulation.

No matter how much we may hate what is going on, no matter how much we deceive ourselves into believing that everything will turn out just right, no matter how much we hide our heads in the proverbial sand, we will not come together. We will instead continue to squabble amongst ourselves just as the manufactured culture demands of us.

Poor stupid people. The Powers That BE are not feeling sorry for any of us, nor do they care what we think or want. We are not in charge of anything and never will be again. Its over. All that is left is the final take down.

I think a march on Washington in support of the 2nd is a good idea. we should all take along a couple of our firearms to show our support. Can you imagine the sight that would be? One million armed people in the Mall?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
I think a march on Washington in support of the 2nd is a good idea. we should all take along a couple of our firearms to show our support. Can you imagine the sight that would be?

One million armed people in the Mall?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

sign me up.... I am game for it.... that would be really interesting and would clearly make a full blown statement that enough is enough... and considering that Montana, Texas and a few other states are saying enough... this could get real good here soon...

The government is going to have to do something to save face.... and since Montana signed a bill into law that they refuse to obey certain aspects of fed law...the line is drawn...