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potential civil war here???

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posted on May, 4 2009 @ 09:19 PM
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Now it has been a long time since I have posted here...but I have been lurking around... Okay onto the possible subject here:

Lets say that we have an administration that wants badly to ban gun ownership or restrict it to the point where it would be next to impossible for the average law abiding person to own a weapon...let alone afford one.

Now considering that there are roughly 90 plus million gun owners that control about 300 million (or more) weapons in this nation at this time...and there are numerous newer militia groups (some good and some bad) that are seeing what is going on. They are starting to speak out in a different manner than they have in the past.... they are becoming more vocal and more clear on what they are not going to allow to happen here.

Given all of the other things that have and are happening across the board when it comes to our rights and what is legal under the constitution... where does it stop and fighting begin.

Surely the guy in charge (so called) must be aware that there are several million militia people here and if only 3% stood up and fired back ...would it slow or stop the trend we are on?

My contention is that there is a slow burning fuse right under the surface that will explode... the manner of choosing where and how much damage it causes will be up for argument...as always.

But... what in you peoples opinions is it going to take to actually trigger a full scale response from armed people over the violation of all constitutional rights?

And how many people (there are a few i am sure) feel that there americans would do absolutely nothing?

Just curious is all.... If this is in the wrong part of the forum..I do indeed appologize.




posted on May, 4 2009 @ 09:23 PM
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I think they want a civil war, honestly. And they will likely get it too. I know American's are highly prone to violence, and we have the means to wage war against eachother.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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What the Mainstream media, missed, the Congress missed, and the Administration missed, is that for the very first time, it was the folks who never have protested anything until they prematurely protested with the Tea Parties.

There were Democrats, Republicans, Independents, Blacks, Whites, Moms, military, Civil Servants, Employees, Employers, and every combination of America present.

That's just over the unbelievable rate of taxation.

Now you pile on gun bans?

Let me know when they do.

I want to duck!



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 09:35 PM
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In the US people kill each other for running shoes, for 5 dollars of rock

It will take very little to start the in-fighting , very little



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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As an owner of several guns Hand to assault rifle, I can only state what I would or will do if we are continually stripped of const. rights.

Realistically if the Feds or MP's came to my home demanding my guns because of new legislation passed, I would have to comply. The real issue is each individual will have to comply or what? Start firing? Or better yet are we to organize and fight against our military? I know the outcome of that and I don't want to die or be imprisoned forever.

The reality is it has to stop at the legislative level. I don't want to lose the rights believe me. So maybe we should embark on a 10 million gun owner march in DC. That would probably be much more beneficial, if it looked as though we were in serious jeopardy of losing gun ownership.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by FX44rice
As an owner of several guns Hand to assault rifle, I can only state what I would or will do if we are continually stripped of const. rights.

Realistically if the Feds or MP's came to my home demanding my guns because of new legislation passed, I would have to comply. The real issue is each individual will have to comply or what? Start firing? Or better yet are we to organize and fight against our military? I know the outcome of that and I don't want to die or be imprisoned forever.

The reality is it has to stop at the legislative level. I don't want to lose the rights believe me. So maybe we should embark on a 10 million gun owner march in DC. That would probably be much more beneficial, if it looked as though we were in serious jeopardy of losing gun ownership.


Logical and rational, good post.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 09:54 PM
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I agree with the above. We love our country. We love our freedoms. But until there is not a single thing we can do constructively, and peacefully then there is the situation of being backed into a corner. As long as some progress is being made then their is no need for violence. It's the last thing anyone ever wants.

My honest hope is that our military remembers it's oath to protect the constitution and the people. There are a ton of good people in government, and this could all change rather quickly back to the correct way of individuals having their power back.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by lilwolf
 

Howdy neighbor, not alot of us spud farmer skinheads on here!

(you know, because everyone thinks that since we...oh nevermind)
The thing that scares me is which DIErectshun are all them guns gonna be pointed?
I for one am gonna be protecting my "kinfolk". I aint gonna take too
rightly to some fellers trying to upset 'em, no whad I mean?
A march on washington is fine just dont march on ma' homestead!

If we kill each other off, they wont have to!

They know theres not gonna be enuff possums to feed everone
sooner or later. Um' purty shore.
I am just being a smart a**! Thanks for the thread and posts!



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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It is going to take something really close to home to get most Americans off the couch and to arms.

I know one thing, I'd die right now if I thought it would help the cause, or amount to some kind of change. When I talk to my best friend about conspiracy, he loves to answer that it's a lot better then other places.

Some see it, others don't. Even when it does get close to home, I'd still expect most of us (american citizens) to chicken-#$%@ out and surrender immediately.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by FX44rice
As an owner of several guns Hand to assault rifle, I can only state what I would or will do if we are continually stripped of const. rights.

Realistically if the Feds or MP's came to my home demanding my guns because of new legislation passed, I would have to comply. The real issue is each individual will have to comply or what? Start firing? Or better yet are we to organize and fight against our military? I know the outcome of that and I don't want to die or be imprisoned forever.

The reality is it has to stop at the legislative level. I don't want to lose the rights believe me. So maybe we should embark on a 10 million gun owner march in DC. That would probably be much more beneficial, if it looked as though we were in serious jeopardy of losing gun ownership.




I also own a good deal of weapons and am a licensed dealer... the regs coming out of DC are now about to cause dealers a great deal of more problems...
It is my hope that things can be brought to a head and in a logical manner with the useage of legislation... but at present there are several states (mine included) that have and are in the process of laying out different bills to curtail the actions of what the govt. wants with regards to free speech and also gun rights...
Several have talked about seccession... and as a last resort only...but this would in my mind cause even greater problems... as divided as we are right now... we would be in a very bad shape.

The military would do what is ordered... but only to a point... I do not think that they would go against the constitution... they took an oath... for that...but not to the CIC.
I am one of those men that is retired from the military and I would indeed fight if needed...
All if would take is another Waco or another Ruby ridge and all hell is likely to bust loose...
but we shall see what they so called hacks in DC are going to do... before it is all over, my fear is that someone will start shooting those that want this type of legislation...



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by dooper
That's just over the unbelievable rate of taxation.


Really?

How much did your taxes go up in 2009?




Originally posted by lilwolf
Lets say that we have an administration that wants badly to ban gun ownership or restrict it to the point where it would be next to impossible for the average law abiding person to own a weapon...let alone afford one.


Well, you can say it but I can't see why you should.

No one, that I am aware of, in this administration has suggested anything remotely close to that.

Of course there are cities that have existing stringent gun laws, though that is also changing, and no one went up in "arms" about that. If anything, if last year's Supreme Court ruling vis a vis DC gun laws is anything to go by, no one has to worry about anybody taking their guns away.

Hell in Virginia they can't even pass a law prohibiting people from buying guns at gun at gun shows without a background check.


Of course none of these facts will stop the fear mongers from screaming in the night "the government is after your guns," after all we wouldn't want to hurt gun and ammunition sales.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by sticky
 




Way back in history there was an expression about the militias in the nation... they were called 3% (percenters).... If only 3 % of all gun owners in this nation stood and spoke in one loud and collective voice the numbers would be staggering.... I think there are a great deal more here than that but 3% of 90 million or more gun owners is one hell of alot of people...



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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Good evening, Dog.

I have two degrees. One in Accounting, one in Finance.

The underground taxes are rising considerably, and if you look at the numbers for the next few years, you'll see the absolutely mandatory tax hikes.

They would be taxing my flushes, if they could figure out how.

Tobacco taxes are criminal. Alcohol taxes are going up. Fuel taxes are going up. As long as they hit everyone on these indirect taxes, and appear to minimize the lower income federal income taxes, it will fly past most people's heads.

Watch the Federal excise taxes.

This SOB and his Congress have lost their damned minds.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Well I can't argue with a lot of what you say.

I smoke, drink, and drive (not drunk) so I'm feeling the pain ...

Maybe I'll stop driving.


The gun thing however is not realistic, other than taking away a few assault rifles and armor piercing ammunition, I expect Americans to always have access to guns. Even if the Dems want it, they just don't have the political and social support to do it.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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I told the lady at the counter today when I bought a carton of cigarettes that I was going to have to quit eating to support my preferred habit.

She thought I was dead serious.

Come to think of it . . .



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by lilwolf
 

Understood.

It has become apparent that many citizens (higher % on ATS) are becoming fearful that our govt. is becoming tyrannical, and that we are on the doorstep of martial law or a police state with an abolishment of constitutional and civil rights.

I think we have serious economic problems and will deteriorate much further economically over the next 3-4-5 years before we establish new policies and legislation that will allow us to be productive once more.

The 3-4-5 year period of deterioration economically, socially, politically is what is unknown and worrisome. I believe we will face many bridges of issues in all the above areas and cross them with constitutional and civil rights preserved, with a peaceful battle or uprise for each. In the end we all want to preserve what we have. It is only now that the issues are coming to head, and awareness happening.

In end we will preserve the constitution and upright this country. Along the way we will have many problems and pain. But, I do not believe we will ever witness the SHTF scenario many here are waiting for with much anxiety, stress, and fear.

If I'm wrong we're all screwed, and I'm a complete fool for which I apologize.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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History often repeats itself my friend and I would wager this...that if there is to be another Civil War it will be the Government staging an event to kick it off. That will be the trigger. The militias and the citizens won't have a trigger point that sets it off, because they are all seperate acting independent entities who are rightly distressed by focused on defense not offence.

I do believe their is an excellent chance the Government wants a Civil War, and at some point possible in the not too distant future will stage some type of orchestrated attack that causes all citizens and all militias to feel they are under attack by the Government.

It might even take two or three such occurences before those opposed to the unconstitutional government now in Washington all come to believe that they are directly under attack and in immenent danger. Then and only then are citizens and militias going to respond.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by lilwolf
reply to post by sticky
 




Way back in history there was an expression about the militias in the nation... they were called 3% (percenters).... If only 3 % of all gun owners in this nation stood and spoke in one loud and collective voice the numbers would be staggering.... I think there are a great deal more here than that but 3% of 90 million or more gun owners is one hell of alot of people...


TPTB better start killing us off in a hurry. WTSHTF, the 3% you speak about might become 15%!

A huge army, with one goal, god bless freedom.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by sticky
TPTB better start killing us off in a hurry. WTSHTF, the 3% you speak about might become 15%!


Really?

And when are they going to do that?

Before or after a visit to Cinnabon?

I'm afraid the days of revolutionaries have gone the way of scurvy. It would take a lot more than gun legislation to get people away from their computers, out of their basements, and into their Fiat/Chrysler truck and onto a revolutionary path.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by FX44rice
reply to post by lilwolf
 

Understood.

It has become apparent that many citizens (higher % on ATS) are becoming fearful that our govt. is becoming tyrannical, and that we are on the doorstep of martial law or a police state with an abolishment of constitutional and civil rights.

I think we have serious economic problems and will deteriorate much further economically over the next 3-4-5 years before we establish new policies and legislation that will allow us to be productive once more.

The 3-4-5 year period of deterioration economically, socially, politically is what is unknown and worrisome. I believe we will face many bridges of issues in all the above areas and cross them with constitutional and civil rights preserved, with a peaceful battle or uprise for each. In the end we all want to preserve what we have. It is only now that the issues are coming to head, and awareness happening.

In end we will preserve the constitution and upright this country. Along the way we will have many problems and pain. But, I do not believe we will ever witness the SHTF scenario many here are waiting for with much anxiety, stress, and fear.

If I'm wrong we're all screwed, and I'm a complete fool for which I apologize.



I hope i am wrong in my thoughts and for what I see going on around us all in a dozen different venues of commerce as well...taxes are going to be mind boggling...
Mine are going to jump substantially this year... I can see it coming...
I have been in business for a good number of years, and it will be harder for me to take care of my employees asa each day passes... I recently had a store meeting with all 276 people and we discussed with each other what is going on. We (meaning me) are going to do all we can to make sure we as a team all stay with it... somehow we are going to make it... but what worries me the most is the people that work for me that have nothing to fall back on... most do not want a nanny govt.... but they will do what is needed to stay afloat...
I also agree that there are a lot of people that see the dangers of tyranny rising up.... some of these people worry me....and others have a lot calmer thought process going on...

But let us all hope that violence does not bust loose...but I think there will be some shots fired across the bow...so to speak.... andt hat will determine which direction it all goes from that point onwards...




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