This could be a Biiiig blow to skeptics...

I posted this on pg 2 and no one answered so I am going to post it again with the hopes that someone can answer it.

I'm going to assume they didn't discover anything earth shattering. Seeing as how the show is recorded, edited and then shown.

If they discovered something mind altering don't you think they would have yelled to the heavens the day they found out?

Forget wanting good ratings. They would be the most famous people in the world if they found absolute evidence of life outside our planet. There would be no need to wait until their show has played.

This is the thread to get a good perspective on this object. It probably has more information than the show does.

Give it a read if you have a genuine interest and it will make this show far more interesting if you compare I'm sure.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by NatureBoy

 

thanks - and happy to be of service

and now that i have some time to sit and think / pull some google links

here is the emperical evidence that demonstrates the claims made re the BWO are UTTER TWADDLE

CLAIM :

its very high silicon content of the BWO. It is 15 times above normal in the BWO.

source

REBUTTAL :

what is " normal "

is alu alloy 6061 " normal " with its silcone content of :

Silicon 0.4 – 0.8

NB - FIGURE = % BY WEIGHT

source

or how about LM6 ?

Silicon 10.0 - 13.0

again % by weight

source

now can the lay members of ATS - who have no advanced engineering education / technical backgroiund understand the absurity of the claim ?

there are numerous comercial alloys in use with > 10% silicone content

so how the hell can a sample have a silicone content 15 times normal ????????? that would require 150% plus

the " science " behind the claim is utter twaddle - and instantly transparent to anyone with the relevant education and or industry experience

its a ` biiig blow ` to my sanity that they have the gall to attempt to foist such a crude lie on UFOlogy

all it does is confuses people who dont know that the claim is false - makes the claimant look like a chuffing idiot and has skeptics laughing hysterically

"UFO hunters " and the idiots they persuaded to pose as " scientists " have shot them selves in the foot

and the only ` biiig blow ` is to the credibility of UFO reserach

Well now. I'm sure you are a smart guy and all but you made a few mistakes.

The copper-free alloys are used for low- to medium-strength castings with good corrosion resistance; the copper-bearing for medium- to high-strength castings, where corrosion resistance is not critical. Because of their excellent castability, it is possible to produce reliable castings, even in complex shapes, in which the minimum mechanical properties obtained in poorly fed sections are higher than in castings made from higher-strength but lower-castability alloys. The alloys of this group fall within the composition limits:

Si 5-25% Mn, Cr, Co, Mo Ni, Be, Zr up to 3%
Cu 0-5% Fe up to 3%
Mg 0-2% Na, Sr < 0.02%
Zn 0-3% P < 0.01%

First of all AL-SI alloy is measured by atomic weight, therefore since ALU has a higher atomic weight v silicon the number of 150% is faulty.

Actually casting alu-si alloy 22-24% and those made by powder metallurgy can be as high as 40-50% Si.

Based on the statistics with this current alloy divided by atomic weight. The parameter of the alloys is between a = 4.045 x 10-10(power)m and a = 4.05 x 10-10(power)m (the lattice parameter of the compound for those lay people.)

Take that Parameter and compare it to the figure at the bottom of the page. Then using equations provided you can determine the percentage of Si in ALU Alloy....

Clicky

This alloy would be closer to 75% based on atomic weight, which could not be made by any known method we know today....

If an engineer cannot understand this then you need to go back to school......

[edit on 5-5-2009 by DaMod]

I, for one, like UFO hunters. Its a good approach of the subject with those 3 guys: one being a skeptic, one being neutral and the sunglassed dude being a believer. Sure, its inconclusive most of the time, but isnt that what the whole ufology is about so far. I'm not expecting to be presented a smoking gun in an entertainment show, but its nice to see thorough investigation with a seemingly unlimited budget, by guys with MUCH more resources than the anoymous armchair specialists on this form.

The NAZI ufo episode was a good one; i never heared of the Riese complex before, there's also not much to find about in online. I visit Poland frequently and i am going there the next time, definitely!


[edit on 5/5/2009 by errorist]

In the video posted by the op, it says the object is in direct relation, somehow formulated by isotopes, to mars debree. So, I ask only with an open mind, if this thing is already proven to be the same make-up of a mars rock/debree, how is the leap made for it to be any kind of proof of alien life or UFO's in and of it'self? Are we to believe aliens are building ships out of mars ore? Are they collecting mars debree and shooting it at the earth? How is this leap from mars debree to Aliens made and called 'proof'?

Granted, he had a facinating story as to how it came about, and has proven his belief as to what he says is what he believes via lie detectors, but besides a interesting tale (which there are MANY) and soley focusing on the object in question, what makes anyone believe it's alien or UFO related, knowing already it's simple mars make-up??

EDIT: Sorry for my other than stellar spelling..

[edit on 5-5-2009 by HomeBrew]

[edit on 5-5-2009 by HomeBrew]

Is the source of data from the nids report..I understood there was no finding of et originn..and it was considtent with 360 cast aluminum
www.ufoevidence.org...
Thanx Marvin at OM for the reference link .. When reading you will see references to flow paths the way aluminimum is prcocessed. ie very Earthly. Also strontium ratio levels were consistent with Earth based materials.
See microscopy section..

The high porosity is very apparent, along with the very fine microstructure. Flow lines are also apparent in these two shots. The coarse ones are easy to see, outlined by the porosity. A more subtle flow line can be seen in the 250X shot upon close examination, defined only by a slight difference in the density of the darker particles on either side. These kinds of flow lines are commonly observed in poor sand or die castings. These are caused by a failure of molten streams of metal to merge due to poor filling of a mold, incorrect die lubrication or incorrect injection pressures.

I would not put too much on the big blow choice of words., as uforeality prob got carried away with intial hype, as any of us might with something of interest.
It was very good of him to share and bring to the table. Its important things are not left hanging. He might have time to re edit if he chooses, adding a questionn mark at end would be helpful all around.
we can compare when they air..if forunate enough to see the prg.








[edit on 5-5-2009 by Sys_Config]

Originally posted by Seany
reply to post by m0r1arty

 

I find I watch UFO Hunters with such hopes

And usually they are crushed...

Yeah exactly !
I also have the same problem with Monster Quest. After a buildup for about half the show, the unidentified sea creature they found, turned out to be something like a dead salmon

Or Destination Truth-I think they found a bat in a cave once

reply to post by Gawdzilla


rofl you mean like.. "Disclosure is coming.. i guarantee by May 31st 2009 some form of Disclosure would of opened,with another country acting preemptively"

Eye live in the Colorado area. After watching the video, it compelled me to call MUFON. Eye plan on attending a meeting.

Eye loved the History Channel presentation of this and found it informative and entertaining.

Originally posted by Sys_Config

When Mufon went into the UFO television business,, and trademarked the title UFOhunters name also, I had an unpleasant feeling, there might be tradeoffs somewhere down the line, and the language of disingenuous research claims creep in become more prevalent. It certainly doesn't help us in this case.

Maybe not quite as big as oil, banking, television, but there is a well developed sub-industry catering to the UFO community and a growing fan base worldwide.

There is a developed star system of big-name experts who do paid speaking appearances, sell DVDs, write books, etc.

The equivalent of Hollywood's TITANIC in the realm of UFOs was the 1990s ALIEN AUTOPSY video by a conmamn supreme named Ray Santilli (sp?)

A rather pathetic but disturbing supposedly secretly filmed medical autopsy on an Roswell alien, it apparently used a severely deformed corpse on an operating table. Incisions were made and what looked like internal organs pulled out of the dead body.

Any first year medical student could tell the alleged pathological operation was not being performed by anyone with knowledge of surgery.

Fox Network paid $100 thousand for broadcast rights to the short pseudo-documentary and it sold a huge number of VHS cassettes and CDs.

This was probably a landmark in UFO disinformation marketing and a tip-off to amateurs that there were interesting and financially rewarding career opportunties.

Mike

Originally posted by DaMod

Well now. I'm sure you are a smart guy and all but you made a few mistakes.

No I did not

< snip – extraneous garbage >

First of all AL-SI alloy is measured by atomic weight,

therefore since ALU has a higher atomic weight v silicon the number of 150% is faulty.

Oh dear – where did you gety that ` scientific fact ` ????????

13 Al Aluminium 26.9815386(8)
14 Si Silicon 28.0855(3) 2

source

You just shot yourself in the foot

PS – the DENSITY of Al is higher than Si [ for a pure solid sample ] – but again the difference is slight – and does not allow the massive shifts you claim

And , besides That is quite a small % difference – that would make little impact on the ballpark figures I am using

Esp as – to quote my own sources :

Silicon 10.0 - 13.0

again % by weight

See it’s a larger manufacturing tolerance than the erroneous atomic weight variation you claim invalidates my position

Now – I will spell it out for you – alloy composition is specified by GROSS weight – and during manufacture of a 100kg batch of an alloy – if 10% content is specified the foundry men will ad 10kg to the crucible

Its that simple – easy to understand , fool proof , logical

Actually casting alu-si alloy 22-24% and those made by powder metallurgy can be as high as 40-50% Si.

Please cite your evidence and sources for this claim – exactly what alu alloy spec demands 40% plus si content ????????????

Come on post a spec sheet

< snip more word salad – which you clearly do not understand – and has no bearing on the issue – you are just trying to bamboozle people with jargon – sorry you failed >

This alloy would be closer to 75% based on atomic weight, which could not be made by any known method we know today....

If this claim is true – I am still waiting for you to cite a source for it , Then the alloy is not an alu alloy as claimed – but a silicon one

It’s the BALANCE element that determines the alloy name .

If an engineer cannot understand this then you need to go back to school......

You seek to lecture me – yet you don’t even know the correct atomic weights for the 2 elements in question ????????

I understand perfectly , And all you have done is spew garbage and irrelevancy

try citeing sources that actually support your claims - not advanced scientific papers you do not even understand

This sounds familiar is this a rerun? And they need to get rid of Bill he gets into the far out ideas that make the show look unbelievable at times like time travel or interdimensions and crap like that, prove with out a doubt that UFOs and aliens exist first. And they need to do some long term investigations rather than one night surveillance or a weekend they need to do it for 6 months to a year just hire a couple of people and supply them with some equipment.

Originally posted by Seany
reply to post by m0r1arty

 

I find I watch UFO Hunters with such hopes

And usually they are crushed...

This is exactly the way i feel!!!!!!

I got around 5 episodes
one underground labs
underwater uso
Area 51
And the cow mutilation onez

is what ive watched so far
All of them nothing concrete
interesting claims etc but not anything backed uped by evidence or concrete stuff. Whenever you think oh ok this is going to be interesting some bull# excuse gets in the way like oh the cow had some metal in it that was moving BUT now its gone that you guys are here OR theres an udnerground structure in cuba we got permission to go see it OHHH no we dont now the cuban government wont let us etc etc the whole show is full of dissapointments I dunno what that old guy keeps getting so excited about !

reply to post by UScitizen


No the show tonight is not a rerun. Here's more info on it:

UFO Hunters: UFO Relics

"From microscopic particles, to large pieces of unknown metal--UFO "trace cases" offer some of the most convincing evidence that UFOs may have been visiting earth for centuries. Our team examines the most compelling relics available. In Pennsylvania, they uncover reports of a UFO spraying a strange blue mist, witnessed by multiple people. They examine a mysterious glass-like rock found in Poland at the scene of a UFO sighting. And in Missouri they meet a man with a unique otherworldly piece of metal he witnessed falling off a UFO. Our team will conduct a scientific test never-before-done on this unidentified metal. The results of this test could be revealing."

www.history.com...

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
Knowing UFO Hunters it will turn out to be a smashed soda can with some sand in it, hence the high silicon content. Then the lab will say its inconclusive but it could be a dirty soda can, and then Bill will go apecrap and make up some wild story about what it was in his mind. That is my prediction. Anyone want to bet?

Knowing UFO Hunters the report could be something like this:

"We have investigated the object and have found a high level of rare compunds as well as other stuff similar to what is found in very old soda cans. It is astonishing how often we get to investigate this type of extraordinary crap and would like you to refrain from asking us to investigate further."

The investigation is slapped with a Non Disclosure Agreement and what UFO Hunters will emphasize is:

"We have investigated...high level of rare compounds...very old...It is astonishing...to investigate...extraordinary...would like you to...investigate further".

But we'll see.



[edit on 6.5.2009 by HolgerTheDane]

reply to post by ufo reality

Our team will conduct a scientific test never-before-done on this unidentified metal. The results of this test could be revealing."

quoted with my emphesis

ok - translation : the ` new scienticic test ` reveals NOTHING of value

Originally posted by argentus


I want to tell you something else, and this is not an attack on your thread, just food for thought, okay? True skeptics are not people we should poke fun at. True skeptics are our friends, as they insist upon criteria and measurable parameters and keep us on the scientific path. Without them, we would be dancing in a world of constant input without challenge, and they make our information and our evidence better.

Want to know something? I believe in EBEs (or maybe I think "they" or some of "them" were terrestrial and here before us humans), however I depend upon true skeptics -- truthseekers who have not formed an opinion -- to test our views and judgements. I think of the late, great, Dr. Sagan, who, truth be known, wanted to believe in EBEs. He just needed real, verifiable, measurable proof. You can read his works and know on a visceral level that he wanted to believe. We can all learn a bit from his approach.

I WANT to believe as well, badly.
I WANT there to be cool things like Aliens and UFO's, FTL drives and interstellar species.
I WANT to believe in OBE, Phychic readings, Ghosts and Nessie...

But I cant because there has never been any verifyable proof of anything.
Yet I still keep coming to ATS to find it and everytime I am dissapointed. Maybe someday I will find what I am looking for.. I am still hopeful. Just skeptical based on the evidence presented so far.

And you know what? ALL Skeptics feel the same way, otherwise we wouldn't bother debunking, it just wouldn't be worth it. We are ALL looking for truth. We do not need to "learn a bit from his [Sagen] approach." We are already doing so, just by replying and inserting our opinions, research and evidence.

UFO Hunters is a crock, when it first came out I was really excited, I thought for sure a mainstream TV show would field much more proof and credibility, but no, it is mainly a story based show with little or no hard evidence. And after that guy failed a polygraph and they STILL deemed it plausible I just had to give up the goose on the show. It's just entertainment, like the clowns on Ghost Hunters.

If Bob's metal is verified as comprised as an unknown alloy not of this earth that is pretty close to conclusive proof that it is 'alien', but it would have to be verified by a credible unafiliated lab.. like maybe a government lab or a univeristy lab (then backed up by others of the same)

otherwise I'm afraid UFO Hunters would just be paying some washed up, out of a job hack to give them results they are looking for.

Just more of the same..

But I'll still watch

Originally posted by justsomeboreddude
Knowing UFO Hunters it will turn out to be a smashed soda can with some sand in it, hence the high silicon content. Then the lab will say its inconclusive but it could be a dirty soda can, and then Bill will go apecrap and make up some wild story about what it was in his mind. That is my prediction. Anyone want to bet?

Well said, that guy just wants to believe so bad that it clouds his judgement.
I feel that to be the biggest enthusiast you also have to be the biggest skeptic.

OK i will not be able to watch the show but it sounds interesting.

If anyone discovers a video upload please give me some u2u notice.