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Aussie gov't: American power fading

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posted on May, 6 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by Master_Wii
 


It's taken long enough for this subject to be raised here. This has been a developing story for over six months.

I've seen economists, strategists and military spokespeople talking about this for a long time. Australia is not alone in their opinion, it's a known fact that the leadership of America as a global player is waning, and it's happening faster than anyone expected.

There is a real risk that Russia or China (or both) might take the opportunity to exert military power on other nations. But I think Europe will be first for the firing line.
Traditionally, those in positions to exert power in defense against such an attack delay and debate in endless meetings (the EU, Nato, UN), so stepping into Europe would be accomplished in a matter of weeks and moving out across a large area would be accomplished within just a couple of months, if that.

Both nations love the element of surprise.
I might be wrong in my assertions, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if China started attacking a nation tomorrow. The unexpected attack usually has a greater chance of succeeding.
Russia have a long standing gripe with many for various reasons, and if China decide to go for it and take a surprise opportunity, Russia would immediately sign up to the fun in exchange for greater control over previous areas of Russian influence.

Call me a pessimist all you like, but I fully expect to see America, the UK and other parts of Europe at war with China and/or Russia before 2015. It makes economic and strategic sense for either party.

Keep an eye on the news, and the moment you see reports of China and Russia having some secretive meetings, prepare for something to start.




posted on May, 6 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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I hope the land of Aus builds it self up. As I understand military part shortages, the negative effect of to many wars at once, seeing are spending circus and leadership problems make this a good move.

As for China understand they work on the understanding of the future and opportunities. The US would be bankrupt about 2019 before than comes confiscation by the government to meet its debt as expected. I would do the same thing in their shoes if I wanted their results that is just wait.



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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Hmmm, Pretty sloppy thread here..


As far as USA, losing its strength and power militaristically? Perhaps slightly based off of the World economy, but I think this goes for most countries as well dealing with the economic issues abroad. As far as the USA diligence towards WAR and its war machine, I would not put it up to the test. History tells us it was the same scenario, back in the 30's that pissed America off, and we were just a bunch farmers.. With the lend lease programs and the cowardice bombing of pearl harbor I believe the truth revealed itself. I know the stars never align themselves same twice or what have you, but I think the US can hold its own, were just budgeting a little or trying too.

[edit on 6-5-2009 by Adrifter]



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 04:57 PM
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Read my post again properly and stop being such a dramatic little baby..

Notice the word "If" before the 2/3's part? That means its a hypothetical situation.. Do you understand that concept? Or do you want me to break that down for you..?

Notice how I mentioned a number of countries in the statement.. not just yours..? So am I now anti UK & anti Chinese as well? Maybe I should also turn myself in as a traitor for saying that we also get media propaganda.
While you may have thrown the word "if" in there, the rest of the post indicates that you were trying to estimate, not make some hypothetical, the amount of people that believe the garbage spewed from CNN.




"European"..? Im not European you North American. The English speaking countries of the EU dont have anti US propaganda.. Would this not seem obvious to you?

I have my own opinions from spending time in the US, having an interest in the world and regularly conversing with American mates of mine.

I have met many of the 'US Stereotypes' you mentioned.. they were all stupid, angry, ignorant to the world and thought that because Im from Ireland, I live in a little run down farmhouse where i farm leprechauns, drink whiskey all day long and pray for a half an hour before I eat my potato sandwiches... the other half of US people I met were great fun, intelligent and had some social composure.
Okay, first, I don't remember a single post where you declared yourself to be from Ireland so I think European was an ACCURATE description; so your little tantrum about how you aren't European was sort of an incredibly dumb post.

Secondly, While there may not be information in the EU English speaking nations about how bad the American government is, there is plenty of bad sterotypes about its people. A lot of which you have shown that you believe through out this entire thread. "We(Americans) are all painted from the same brush" is just one example of how you were referring to how ignorant we are, and you can see this by conversations Americans have had with foreigners in other threads. You also imply that are Americans are dumb through out many of your posts, including saying that "America is the 21st centuries Nazi Germany and many Americans are too dumb to realize this."

Or how about this:




I don't mean to be obtuse, but what in the hell are you talking about?



He means American people are blind and dumb, believeing every thing that they get told. Throw in the name of god, then you have the most ignorant un-informed people on the planet.


Thats a little bit harsh

I didn't mean ALL of them.. just a lot...


I've had enough of showing you how you believe in the stereotypes that your media propagates. It seems as you have backed down from your stance though, giving Americans at least a 50/50 split.



Finally.. How did you miss that you are the one spewing the "hate talk"? - I have not said one anti American thing in this thread.. if I have, find it please..

Otherwise.. cop on to yourself.

Do you really want to stick to this statement after things I have said from above? There is way more that you have said too, I just find it unnecessary to beat my point all the way down to hell. But let us recap:

Americans are all painted from the same brush

Most Americans are incredibly dumb (see the long quoted conversation above)

America is the 21st century Nazi Germany

50% of Americans fall into your category (maybe its true, but I see no evidence of that where I live, and you presented no evidence yourself).


So, in what respects was I wrong? You know what, I don't care. Your ignorance is a waste of my time. Enjoy living in your hate.



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


And interesting, because when I click on it, it reads that the page cannot be seen, or does not exist!

And be careful posting those subliminals. People may get all mad and flustered ya know



posted on May, 6 2009 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by vox2442
 


"That's good news. From an American" yeah go on?

And?
Ok so tell me exactly what you "Remember" Other than a title you found hours later and tried to make something of it.
You posted this posted on 5-5-2009 @ 03:12 AM
I changed my post @ posted on 4-5-2009 @ 04:32 PM
BUSTED!

He quoted what I posted not what was deleted.

Get a life.

[edit on 5-5-2009 by SLAYER69]


The times are different because we're in different time zones. I have mine set to Japan time. Get it?

As far as what you said, google cache provides:



link

That's what he was replying to.



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 04:37 AM
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So, in what respects was I wrong? You know what, I don't care. Your ignorance is a waste of my time. Enjoy living in your hate.



Again.. "Might", "If", or "May" make things hypothetical... thats simple English.. You are also changing the wording on some of those quotes.. These are why you are wrong.
You obviously didn't want to see the post where I bigged up your country.

You are also missing the humor in most of those posts, im mean come on.. you think me calling you a 'North American' is a tantrum..?? Obviously you need laughy smiley faces to get the humor Ill make sure to insert them in future.. just for you
Try looking at those posts and quotes from a perspective where you don't WANT to be insulted and you will see them as light hearted.

But the fact is, I am correct about what I am saying.. I admit I am exaggerating the figures quite a bit so I apologize for that but the point is the same - as an obviously competent individual, you should be able to realize that these are true and justified . Im not going to bother explaining why I like the US a lot more than most because you have obviously made up your mind about me.

Don't bother with that "Hate" rubbish.. I don't hate you or your country and it doesn't offend me so give it a rest.. Also, it doesn't hold any weight whatsoever coming from people in your country.... especially with its recent history and the overall excessively abusive attitude that has generally emanated from its people towards the rest of the world for the past couple of decades... And at the risk of repeating myself, I see this as the end result of generations of nationalist propaganda so the only thing I dislike about the US is its foreign policy.



[edit on 7/5/09 by Dermo]



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 04:55 AM
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USA is 21st century Nazi Germany . this it has proven by murdering 2 million Iraqi innocent civilians and babies with bombs,guns,tanks,fuel air weapons ,sanctions etc. and waging destructive wars on several nations

this USA is a great threat to the world and must be stopped , if necessary be destroyed .
only Russia can save the world from bloodthirsty american empire .or maybe China to by economically collapsing it



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual
so stepping into Europe would be accomplished in a matter of weeks and moving out across a large area would be accomplished within just a couple of months, if that.


With what? The Russian army is rubbish - Do you think the Chinese will be able to get an Army to the EU border without anyone spotting it? Also the fact that the Russia and Germany (the EU's largest nation economy) are pretty tight would cause problems.

Also what advantage would it be to attack the worlds largest economy? Almost a third of the worlds GDP comes from the EU at the moment, It would completely ruin the world economy.

Also, what strategic advantage would it be to attack the EU? Which in 15 years will still be the worlds largest economy, will probably be a single state with over 600 million people, a ridiculous military spending and a population that has large scale war in its genes after millennia of it.

Your view makes sense in the old fashioned ways of war.. not in the modern day.. the World is too intertwined economically for a war like that to be effective for anyone.. unless it is for depopulation.. then we're screwed.



posted on May, 7 2009 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by Kombatt98
this USA is a great threat to the world and must be stopped , if necessary be destroyed .
only Russia can save the world from bloodthirsty american empire .or maybe China to by economically collapsing it


While I disagree with a lot of what the US has done militarily in the past decade - the world needs it as an economic, military and industrial power.

The decrease in US power will run its course and eventually lead to a balance between five or so superpowers. Just as long as they can be civil to each other then, thats all that matters.



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
I'm glad the Australians feel the need to build up their Navy. In my humble opinion that's a good thing. The US has been shouldering the responsibility for more than a few decades. It's funny China wants a deep water navy I say have at it. It's not like the US and her navy will shrivel up and wither away.


Oh believe me we pay in blood for this percieved protection. In fact we've fought more wars for the US in the past 60 years than any other country.



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by cosmokatt7
...I wouldn't want to trade "globalization" for "sinonization" any time soon

At least Westerners believe in something greater than themselves...

China in charge would be materialism and consumerism... but with no
spiritual values...

No wonder they put industrial solvents in food stuffs...


You seem to be a little confused. America is materialism and commercialism, where the hell have you been. Whilst Americans spend money on crap, their education system is going down the tubes which in turn is producing a generation of morons.

The Chinese believe in China not just their own personal needs. If you ever go to China(which obviously you haven't) you would see this everywhere. That is why the Chinese will dominate their country comes before themselves in America it's all about what I can squeeze out of the country.



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by mattifikation
I think you meant to say "believing" and "uninformed." Also, ignorant and uninformed mean the same thing, O great judge of other peoples' dumbness. If every American truly believed everything they were told, I doubt there would be an ATS. Last I checked, the Amigos were Americans.


You'd also realize this site is here to make money, not to provide a place for every crackpot to hang out. I wouldn't believe 90% of the things on ATS, there have been plenty of hoaxes on here. In fact I think I've found more gullibility here than anywhere else.


You know what really bothers me, even more than that? Being called dumb by somebody who's never met me, based on nationality. To pass judgment on an entire country of people without knowing them is ignorant.


Hmm seems what many here are doing to China and the Chinese passing judgement whilst being ignorant of China, it's people and culture.
Unfortuantely Americans now do have the stereotype of being stupid, the poster boy for that was good ole bumbling Bush. If people elect a moron to power, you're going to be called names.



posted on May, 8 2009 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by Schaden
And you're a damn fool if you think it's only in the US. It's the same group of people pulling the strings behind all the native English speaking countries. I've been to Australia, nice place. The people I met there worshiped America



LOL, now I know that's a joke. Australians tend to stereotype Americans as loud, obnoxious and completely oblivious to the world outside of America. What's even funnier is their complete lack of geographical knowledge.



Haha, I dodn't know a triangle has 4 sides.







[edit on 8-5-2009 by rogue1]



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