Originally posted by acidhead
now the devil afik is a fallen angel , angels dont have the same power as god so by this reasoning - god isnt as powerfull as religion makes out (he would have been able to squash a few fallen angels if he was) which brings us more to the thought that god is more of a race of alien being who isnt all powerfull.

maybe my total lack of religious teaching is my downfall and im sure ill say the odd prayer for good luck b4 i die , but it seems so senseless

What makes you think that God WANTED them "squash"-ed? You're missing the bigger point here I think. That point is that God ALLOWED that to happen so that he could create us in a place to learn about evil. He doesn't want us to turn evil, but to see it and overcome it. Once we overcome evil, imagine the next step.. I like it. Perfect evolution, on a spiritual scale. As I said, perfect.

Originally posted by TheBorg
Please dude, Lucifer was not Satan. I really do wish people would stop taking the Bible out of context. Read the whole chapter leading up to that. The writer was speaking to a King, and comparing him to the rising star in the east, or Lucifer. Please don't do that again. This is gonna sound really cliche and all, but it was just the planet Venus man, and I'm being serious cause it really was Venus.

I'm fully aware of the teachings on Satan vs. Lucifer and I'm aware of the facts concerning the Satan/Lucifer debate, being a card carrying Satanist at one time as well as a Pentacostal I'm well versed in both sides and their dogma regarding the "Prince of Evil". You'll notice nowhere in my post did I equate Satan with Lucifer. Nor did I claim Lucifer was a Fallen angel. Nor do I state anywhere that I BELIEVED Lucifer to be an angel or Satan. I refered to Lucifer as a "he" because I'm speaking to a thread full of people largely unaware of the origin of the name Lucifer and I was trying to relate my point to what they know to be true.


Calm your scholarly "anger" there Urkel and go back and read my post.


[Edited on 5-28-2004 by Preest]

Originally posted by TheBorg
That point is that God ALLOWED that to happen so that he could create us in a place to learn about evil. He doesn't want us to turn evil, but to see it and overcome it. Once we overcome evil, imagine the next step.. I like it. Perfect evolution, on a spiritual scale. As I said, perfect.

I think the key is that God allows things to happen in order for us to use the gift of free will that he's given us. That's why I think that aliens or UFOs are actually demonic incarnations which appear for the purpose of confusing us into thinking that aliens are more common than God because they can be seen. Why is it so much easier to accept unsubstantiated original thinking over years of faith, tradition and miracles?

Originally posted by AlterEgo

Originally posted by TheBorg
That point is that God ALLOWED that to happen so that he could create us in a place to learn about evil. He doesn't want us to turn evil, but to see it and overcome it. Once we overcome evil, imagine the next step.. I like it. Perfect evolution, on a spiritual scale. As I said, perfect.

I think the key is that God allows things to happen in order for us to use the gift of free will that he's given us. That's why I think that aliens or UFOs are actually demonic incarnations which appear for the purpose of confusing us into thinking that aliens are more common than God because they can be seen. Why is it so much easier to accept unsubstantiated original thinking over years of faith, tradition and miracles?

I think you just helped me to make my point. Also, I should note that I too feel the same as you on this topic.

And as for that Urkel comment Preest, ya, I get a lil preachy sometimes. I just wanted to make that point so the rest of the forum-goers might learn something; sorry if I offended.

TB
Thanks for the post and the honest statements. It's refreshing and appreciated.
CS

Originally posted by CommonSense
TB
Thanks for the post and the honest statements. It's refreshing and appreciated.
CS

Yup. Just tryin to put a different spin on the conversation, that's all.

Interesting topic, I tend to agree with Common, but just to look at this from the other side as well, what if aliens do come from another place? What would that mean?

It would mean they somehow managed to use speeds above the speed of light to get here in the first place.
Besides that, they did this without being seen by either radars or the human eye.
Noone ever sees UFO's entering or leaving our atmosphere, they are only seen when they are allready in our atmosphere.
To me this is quite a disturbing thing to realize, because it means (what I make of it) that the "things" some people see, did not come from other parts of the universe to take a peek at us...
It means they are allready among us, and have been for a long time.

Besides this I also know for a fact:
1. Aliens/UFO's oppose the bible. (God creating life on earth only)
2. Aliens/UFO's spread fear.
3. Aliens/UFO's and their supposed existance led to all kinds of new religions.

We can't be sure, but to me it seems that the whole alien/ufo "thing" is one of Satans ways to keep as many people from believing in God, without revealing himself. (note that the devil would never reveal himself directly to someone who does not believe, since it would prove the existance of God as well.)

Originally posted by Preest
Sorry but that's a bit lame IMO. I've seen Christians do far more damage to other Christians and non-believers than I've ever seen the belief in aliens do.

I've seen humans(Christians and non-believers) do damage to other Christians and non-believers.
Humans make horrible mistakes, and guess what, Christians are humans as well...

Originally posted by Jakko
Interesting topic, I tend to agree with Common, but just to look at this from the other side as well, what if aliens do come from another place? What would that mean?

It would mean they somehow managed to use speeds above the speed of light to get here in the first place.
Besides that, they did this without being seen by either radars or the human eye.
Noone ever sees UFO's entering or leaving our atmosphere, they are only seen when they are allready in our atmosphere.
To me this is quite a disturbing thing to realize, because it means (what I make of it) that the "things" some people see, did not come from other parts of the universe to take a peek at us...
It means they are allready among us, and have been for a long time.

Besides this I also know for a fact:
1. Aliens/UFO's oppose the bible. (God creating life on earth only)
2. Aliens/UFO's spread fear.
3. Aliens/UFO's and their supposed existance led to all kinds of new religions.

We can't be sure, but to me it seems that the whole alien/ufo "thing" is one of Satans ways to keep as many people from believing in God, without revealing himself. (note that the devil would never reveal himself directly to someone who does not believe, since it would prove the existance of God as well.)

Where did you get the idea that God said that he created life on Earth only? Please explain your 3 points with a little more clarity.

I got that idea out of Genesis.
It's subject to interpretation, but I think if God created this universe for us to share with other lifeforms "within reach" it would have been mentioned somewhere in the bible.

Lines such as "God created humans in his own image" seem to point in that direction as well, allthough as I said, this is just my understanding of the bible and God.

Wether or not earth being unique in the universe can be understood out of what's in the bible or not, it's for sure that the bible does not speak about aliens or lifeforms on other planets, meaning that the whole UFO/ALIEN story opposes the bible in one way or another. (the bible is either wrong, or ignorant if aliens exist)

As for point 2 and 3.
Aliens/UFO's spread fear. Maybe for people who have never seen aliens or UFO's it's not such a big deal, but people who saw them, or claim to be abducted by them were generally pretty scared. (some still are)
And if you'd have to believe their description of what an alien looks like, it's not that hard to understand that an encounter with such beings would freak you or me out as well.

And they create new religions, the best example is that Elohim (correct spelling?) thing. This religion is growing rapidly as more UFO's are seen.
They believe aliens created us by cloning, and that all seconds of our lives are being recorded on their super computers, someone correct me if I'm mistaking.

Originally posted by Jakko
I got that idea out of Genesis.
It's subject to interpretation, but I think if God created this universe for us to share with other lifeforms "within reach" it would have been mentioned somewhere in the bible.

Lines such as "God created humans in his own image" seem to point in that direction as well, allthough as I said, this is just my understanding of the bible and God.

Wether or not earth being unique in the universe can be understood out of what's in the bible or not, it's for sure that the bible does not speak about aliens or lifeforms on other planets, meaning that the whole UFO/ALIEN story opposes the bible in one way or another. (the bible is either wrong, or ignorant if aliens exist)

As for point 2 and 3.
Aliens/UFO's spread fear. Maybe for people who have never seen aliens or UFO's it's not such a big deal, but people who saw them, or claim to be abducted by them were generally pretty scared. (some still are)
And if you'd have to believe their description of what an alien looks like, it's not that hard to understand that an encounter with such beings would freak you or me out as well.

And they create new religions, the best example is that Elohim (correct spelling?) thing. This religion is growing rapidly as more UFO's are seen.
They believe aliens created us by cloning, and that all seconds of our lives are being recorded on their super computers, someone correct me if I'm mistaking.

Genesis huh? Got any verses to support that? I don't want this to go into a Bible research project, but if you're going to make a point using a specific location in the book, then I hope that you'll give us some quotes to support your theory. My extensive research on this topic has some puzzling quotes which I think point the other way entirely.

Here's a couple for starters:

Genesis: CH 1, Verse 28: "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Question: REplenish the earth huh? Sounds odd that God would ask man to REplenish the earth if no one has been here before, now doesn't it?

Genesis: CH 4, Verses 16 & 17: "And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she concieved, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch."

Questions: Land of Nod huh? Who named it that? And where did Cain get him a wife from? There had to be others in the Land of Nod, or else he found an imaginary wife.

Anyway, let me know what you think. Peace.

I ment the entire part about creation.
The bible says there was "nothing" before God created something. (the first humans)
So if God would have created other lifeforms somewhere else, it would have been some time after creating us.
Ah well, as I said it's all subject to interpretation, but based on the bible as a whole, I would say earth is the one planet that God chose to create life on.

Your interpretation of these verses out of Genesis is interesting, but in Dutch these verses are slightly different.
Replenish the lands, means something like "feed the lands" as in saywing seeds and such.
And the Land of Nod was probably named like this by God, just like Eden.

The bible says there was "nothing" before God created something. (the first humans)

tssk , i suppose now the fosilised dinosaurs are really demons who fallen in a war against god or something ?

maybe god created us first but then went back in time and created dinosaurs just to confuse and test us ?

The systems we have for finding out how old something is, are not as reliable as people think.
Besides this, we don't know when God created the first humans, for what we know God created Dinos in the same period the first humans were created.

well usually we dig down in layers of the earth , the earth has slightly different colours in the layers , we can judge the age of finding human bones to finding dinosaur bones by the fact that the dinosaurs are a lot deeper than the human bones - unless god played another little trick and made dinosaur bones sink into the earth a bit deeper to make it look like they are older

AH,
Actually a lot of the dating techniques have proved to be less than desired. There's too many other variables that can disrupt the process. It's not simpply looking at the color of the soil.
CS

ok show me without the bible how humans where walking the earth before the dinosaurs

AH
I'm not saying that they were. In fact I believe humans came after dinosaurs. My point is that dating techniques simply are not as reliable as many would like us to believe.
CS

We already know that Carbon-14 dating is not accurate because if the sample of C-14 has any other organic compounds on it, it throws off the dating. And besides, I don't think humans were here at the same time as dinos.

We haven't ever found a dino with a spearhead in it, so until we do, I'm gonna maintain the idea that the dinos were a separate creation before our own. Now how far back that was has yet to be determined, and there's nothing to say that there couldn't have been other prior civilizations to ours here on earth. Just a thought.

My view of this is that demonds are actually interdimentional beings, or maby even aliens. That is just an old word for aliens.Christians thousands of years ago saw aliens or interdimentional beings and said "Hey look their goes some demonds" But now a days with our new fangled modern thinking we say "Hey look their goes some aliens" Right?