A curious Nazi occult tale

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posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by foxhoundone

Kabbalah: The Misunderstood Doctrine
Kabbalah is one of the most grossly misunderstood parts of Judaism. I have received several messages from non-Jews describing Kabbalah as "the dark side of Judaism," describing it as evil or black magic.

Kabbalah have been so badly distorted by mystics and occultists. Kabbalah was popular among Christian intellectuals during the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods, who reinterpreted its doctrines to fit into their Christian dogma. In more recent times, many have wrenched kabbalistic symbolism out of context for use in tarot card readings and other forms of divination and magic that were never a part of the original Jewish teachings. Today. It borrows the language of kabbalah and the forms of Jewish folk superstitions,

This not my interpitation i just copied this from the internet


Problem with looking stuff up on the Internet is you come to the loud shrieking disinformaton first.

As soon as a website claims it is revealing the true hidden secrets of the Ancient Kabballah - you're tipped off it's bunk.

You have to attain a level of understanding of life, yourself, the world - before you can even comprehend the Kaballah. Th same is true for a lot of mysticism, the higher tenets of Buddhism, etc

It doesn't all reduce to a Youtube explanation. There's a personal transformation required before you can 'get it'

I recommend reading a few of the key introductory books on the subject.
Gershon Scholem's classic "Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism" is a good place to start.


M




posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 

Being of Celtic/pagan stock so to speak mmiichael, I am not big on religion
But i have a big interest in WW1/ WW2, My grandfather fought on the Somme and liberated the the town of Theipthal. (Till the English failed to break through and called the 36/16 Ulster/Irish division, back)

But i will browse Major trends in Jewish mysticism,
Any ideas on Blk 14 (Heidi kaserna) and the strange going ons that happen there ??



posted on Dec, 31 2009 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by foxhoundone
Being of Celtic/pagan stock so to speak mmiichael, I am not big on religion
But i have a big interest in WW1/ WW2, My grandfather fought on the Somme and liberated the the town of Theipthal. (Till the English failed to break through and called the 36/16 Ulster/Irish division, back)

But i will browse Major trends in Jewish mysticism,
Any ideas on Blk 14 (Heidi kaserna) and the strange going ons that happen there ??


Some like to think the Celts are the Lost Tribe.

Don't believe it for a second.

Celtic mysticism is interesting and important.

Much of WWII was fought on an an occult plane.

The Nazis had bad 'karma'

In the end why they lost.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by mmiichael
 

It is rumoured that St Patrick did not vanquish snakes from island of Ireland but Celtic.Pagans, And established christanity,
Celtic definition Celtic (kel′tik; also sel′tik)
adjective
of the Celts or their languages or cultures
noun
a branch of the Indo-European family of languages, divided into Goidelic (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx) and Brythonic (Welsh, Breton, and the extinct Cornish) branches...

So in theory we are the lost tribe ?
I little of topic Appolz..



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 06:33 AM
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reply to post by Witness2008
 

Thankyou witness2008,
Blavatsky "The secret doctrine" Her magnum opus...


Continuously in print for over 100 years, the "SD" remains today the most comprehensive sourcebook of the esoteric tradition, outlining the fundamental tenets of the "Secret Doctrine of the Archaic Ages." Challenging, prophetic, and strikingly modern, it directly addresses the perennial questions: continuity of" life after death," purpose of existence, good and evil, consciousness and substance, sexuality, karma, evolution, and human and "planetary transformation".
Preface:
Based on the ancient Stanzas of Dzyan with testimony from over 1,200 sources, these volumes unfold the drama of cosmic and human evolution — from the reawakening of the gods after a "Night of the Universe" to the ultimate reunion of cosmos with its divine source. Mystery language of myths, symbols, and allegories, helping the reader decipher the often abstruse imagery of the world's sacred literature.



posted on Jan, 2 2010 @ 06:55 AM
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Found this regarding the illuminati,


Shortly thereafter in 1492, Isabella and Ferdinand expelled the Jews from Spain. This sent waves of Jewish refugees throughout Europe, spreading knowledge of Hebrew and of the Kabbalah.

Renaissance philosophers sought to integrate these traditions with the view of unifying the rapidly disintegrating religious factions and also ending the constant political strife. Thus they are the forerunners or prophets of the Rosicrucian and Illuminati movements.

Interesting stuff...



posted on Jan, 3 2010 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by mmiichael
Just a quick comment. Without making any aspersions to anyone's honesty - as soon as I read how two divers never returned and the third came back hopelessly insane it became clear what we were dealing with.

This hopelessly insane witness cliche has become become a standard for urban legend fantasies passing as an account of an event. This must be the 4th ATS thread I've read that starts this way.

The Nazis dabbled with Occult stuff and strange technologies. Considering they spent their energies and resources on mass murder I doubt they had much interest in resuscutating dead people as zombies.

You kids should be careful with your manipulations of history. The Nazis were brutal psychos. Mythologizing them neither teaches you or anyone anything of use.

The world outside you window is vastly complex, but it does not operate on the lines of a video game. Learn the vast difference between fact and fantasy.



[edit on 28-12-2009 by mmiichael]


Hhmm, not sure what clarity you speak of here mmicheal and contrary to your claim you dont wish to cast any aspersions on any one's honesty it seems evidently clear that you do. I might suggest unless you have something constructive to add to this, or indeed any other, thread you keep your opinions to yourself. I am not in the habit of living out childish fantasises and all the information I have provided has come from members of the British military intelligence establishment. Whilst I agree they may not be the most reliable of sources if you wished to find out the reality of WMD in an Arabic country I feel confident discussions in private on matters concerning the history of our homes at the time to be quite reliable. I started this thread in the hope that other former Cold War Warriors might have similar tales to tell or provide further information. If you are worried about rewriting history let me assure you most of history requires rewriting with a critical eye, it has always been written by the victors from their perspective.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by SOXMIS]

Don't fear foxhoundone, any comments, information you have is more than welcome, I just wish I had more time to sift through myself. Keep up the good work!

[edit on 3-1-2010 by SOXMIS]



posted on Jan, 4 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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SOXMIS it's good to have you back. While my contribution to this thread is minor and total hear say (and it seems its been dismissed), I look forward to reading what other stories you have.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by SOXMIS

Hhmm, not sure what clarity you speak of here mmicheal and contrary to your claim you dont wish to cast any aspersions on any one's honesty it seems evidently clear that you do. I might suggest unless you have something constructive to add to this, or indeed any other, thread you keep your opinions to yourself. I am not in the habit of living out childish fantasises and all the information I have provided has come from members of the British military intelligence establishment.


I tried to qualify that I was not wanting to offend anyone.

I've worked in journalism and publishing for many years. I have heard variants of this story and similar ones many times. There always are mysterious suicides by people who spent an night in a place, and inevitably one or two die and another comes back stark raving mad.

If you check out an Urban Legend site you will find quite a few dozen similar tales.

Unless one can provide dates, names, contactable witnesses, published reports, there is nothing to show this has any substance.What is the name of the stark raving mad guy, what did he say, how was he diagnosed, which institution is he currently residing?

I'm sure you are sincere - sorry of I seem to be trying to rain on your parade.

I could be dead wrong. Give us something to give some credence to this.


M



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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mmiichael.. dude.. Soxmis' detailed descriptions of the location backed up by others stationed there along with the relative age range of people we're talking about here should be enough to validate his belief in the story. The only thing I can't figure out is when you guys were there. I assume you were there after the war but still.. if you were 15 in 45 when the war ended.. you would have to be 80 years old now. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I just don't know that many people over the age of 65 that are computer literate.

That aside this is a great post.. I know what bad can come from messing with forces you don't understand so it's not so far a stretch to imagine what tampering on a mass scale could do.

Now for my contribution to this thread... the symbols Foxhoundone provided as the Ahnenerbe symbols.. They very much so caught my eye, as do all symbols. I know the meaning behind a barber pole, the story behind the physicians sword with twin serpent.. Has anyone noticed at all that the symbol for the Ahnenerbe is the ribbon used to symbolize cancer?? I think that's a bit of a stretch to chalk up to coincidence...

[edit on 5-1-2010 by PayMeh]

[edit on 5-1-2010 by PayMeh]



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by PayMeh
mmiichael.. dude.. Soxmis' detailed descriptions of the location backed up by others stationed there along with the relative age range of people we're talking about here should be enough to validate his belief in the story. The only thing I can't figure out is when you guys were there. I assume you were there after the war but still.. if you were 15 in 45 when the war ended.. you would have to be 80 years old now. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I just don't know that many people over the age of 65 that are computer literate.


Actually the growth in people in their 70s and 80s who are active on the Net is phenomenal. Lots of disabled, shut-ins, poor health types with endless time on their hands and computers cheaper than ever.

My point, not being stated well and coming off as dismissive and adversarial, is that if you've never been exposed to these type of stories they sound compelling. But after hearing the same variant of standard Urban legends you become highly skeptical. I recognized this one, the people exposed to the supernatural source who committed suicide/died/went mad as Urban Legend #746. When someone tries to track the story it's elusive. And the same details show up somewhere else.

There are people who track this stuff as part of their sociological research.

Check out these sites for a better understanding


urbanlegends.about.com...

urbanlegendsonline.com...

www.darwinawards.com...






[edit on 5-1-2010 by mmiichael]



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by PayMeh
 


I was stationed at Div HQ and had reason to visit this base on a regular basis during the late 80's and early 90's just before draw down and these stories were still rife then

The young guys who lived in the block often used skateboeards and bikes to get along the very long corridors, but for grown soldiers who generally weren't really scared of bullets, they had a healthy respect for their surrouondings.



posted on Jan, 5 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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Oh I know about the tactics used in urban legends and generally I'd be skeptical as well.. I just find veracity in Soxmis' and Foxhoundone's recollection. TBH until Fox started replying and corroborating the OP I found it fishy. But with a timeline of people being present there so long after the war, my last skepticism is quelled. If you find the story hard to swallow then look at it this way. Leave the occult aside and just focus on the supernatural. Perhaps it was just a simple haunting. The fact is these occult rituals/experiments had to happen somewhere. Wherever it happened I guarantee it got messy at some point. If you don't believe me play with a Ouija board and piss something off.. I'm sure they had people who claimed to know what they were doing, but I'm sure what they were asking for was trouble.



posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by PayMeh
 

Gentlemen/Ladies
94 locating Regt R Artillery/14 Sig's Regt R Signals, Both regiments stationed at 77 Heidi kaserne Celle during the cold war. We are all roughly in are 40s, Remember the British army recruits at 16 years of age (boy solders) after a years training you are then given your posting locations.
Most of the guys on here ended up in lower Saxony Celle borough. Which was the expected thrust point from the east (iron curtain) from the then USSR..
This area alone has tonnes of history from the second world war (never mind the first). After successful Allied bombing runs on Berlin the German military switched alot of its senior military manpower to outlying towns/boroughs Lower Saxony/Celle being a major location..
From a secret munitions factory to isotope production (silk factory).
The bergen/belsen concentration camp, Wietzendorf (SOXMIS) rail transfer goods yard. The Celle "hare hunt". The leibstandarte/allgemeine/ahnenerbe SS/wehrmacht units based there at the close of WW2.
Ending in the military tribunals/trials and eventual execution of Nazi concentration camp overseers..
And not to forget the Berlin airlift, (RAF Celle) post WW2.
All this information gleaned from German archives and museums.
Getting all this basic information was hard enough in its self, As Celle officials tried very hard to bury this dark period of its history and revert to the touristy image of quaint rural village..



posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 08:07 AM
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Bullsh#t detectors in this thread seem to be down, or at least badly malfunctioning. Soxmis, darn it, you've been had. Don't feel bad. They're great old stories. Classic believe-it-or-not or "weird tales" type of stuff.

mmichael is correct(and polite). If you go and have a look at the stories he's talking about I think you'll get the idea.


As to your personal ghost story, don't worry, I believe you.



posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by mrwiffler
 

Nice comment mrwiffler,
You are obviously not a cold war veteran or a BAOR veteran, Thus you have never been stationed at these Barracks we speak off, You have to have been there to feel the atmosphere of all these places, And to use a phrase from your good self..

"I tend to rage against gullibility on this site but only because I actually know what's going on.(me arrogant...never) I've seen things that would make "closed minded skeptics" poo in their pants".

Care to enlighten us mrwiffler ? ..



posted on Jan, 6 2010 @ 09:47 AM
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[img]http://[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0b61bc1374ab.jpg[/img]


Here's an older photo at the rear of Blk 14, in the background is the old HQ Blk an on the right is the old NCO mess Blk just to give some scale to this " Von seeckt heath kaserne" as it was known..



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 09:46 AM
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Well, where to start? mmicheal amd mrwiffler I'm sure you mean well but I dont think you read my OP clearly, I recommend you go back to page one and start again. My reason for posting this thread was to see if I could find anybody to collaborate what I had been told, that is, the reason for the flooding of the basement levels of block 14 was due to the SS trying to cover something up. There is no doubt the basement levels were flooded. Secondly the reason those basement levels were concreted over was due to the Americans, on liberating the base, sending down divers to investigate (which would be expected) and they either didnt return or were completely hatstand if they did. There is no doubt the basement levels were concreted over. Thirdly to see if anyone had any knowledge of possible occultist dealings the SS had at this base, in particular, due to the paranormal experiances of myself and many servicemen at this base, both before my regiment and after. There is no doubt the Nazis and the SS in particular had a keen interest in the occult. I hope that clears up any thoughts you or anyone else has about this thread being BS. Anything I have claimed to have firsthand knowledge of is true, anything I have claimed to have heard from others is open to debate. However Im not so stupid to realise there are some parallels with one or two urban legends, but you know what, Im only here to gather information for my own satisfaction. I have no desire to spread ULs, no desire to tell ghost stories to scare anyone and no desire to be drawn into arguements about the validity of my claims or anyone else who wishes to add something of interest, even if it is an UL or a tale of Nazi zombies from members of your family. Its just information, I'll think it over and store it. Im not going to discount anything as long as its contributing and not distracting.
Instead of claiming this thread to be BS or a new take on an old UL why dont you try and do some research to either prove or debunk it? You can start by trying to find out who exactly liberated the base. What happened when they did, were any SS captured and gave intel on what happened at this base. This was no ordinary base, even by SS standards. It was the largest SS HQ in Germany. The building is massive and it goes as deep underground as it does up. It was up until the early nineties the largest single brick building in Europe and could well still be. As foxhoundone has shown it has a very interesting history but he has only scratched the surface. Im sure he'll admit it is extremely difficult to get a large amount of information on its history and kudos to him for the amount he has got so far. Come on chaps, believe what you want but leave the sniping out. If it isnt up your street move along, if nothing else it might give you an insight to life at a former SS base during the Cold War.



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by SOXMIS
 

Indeed SOXMIS, I have only scrathed the surface, the main problem is being able to get by the amount of "blocks" put in the way by some town officals at that time in history, to revert to its "ye oldy town" image.
I have still many a string on my bow to carry on researching this topic.
there were some posters saying they would get back with more information, Where are you guys i need steering on this.

And SOXMIS (and the missus) have a happy chinese new year



posted on Jan, 9 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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Cheers foxhoundone, it will be my first in China and judging the Christmas and New Year celebrations I've been to so far it'll beat a night on the razz in sunny Celle or indeed Hamburg hands down. By the by, went to a karaoke bar last week and found out they play SHOCK! Thought they'd have the white ghost over a barrel not realising Im a ringer from back in the day, many a night playing the barmaid till the wee hours in Snoopy's, dont think I ever paid for a drink in there! Hope you had a wizard Chrimbo mate and a wicked New Years!


(sorry, off track, back to normal programming!)






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