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Originally posted by redhead57
As much as I don't like Obama I am happy about this new plan to stop the off shore accounts of corporations from hiding their tax shelters. I did watch the press conference and though I really don't trust this guy at all, it is past time that someone did something about the foreign outsourcing of American jobs.
I don't trust the man at all, but this might not be too bad.
Originally posted by jdub297
Fascism has been described as “the merger of the corporation and the government.” Benito Mussolini
Economic fascism is sometimes described as government control over "the four P’s": Product, Price, Profit, and People.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
link
Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] Fascism is also a corporatist economic ideology.[5] Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state.[6] Fascists believe that nations and races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in combat against the weak.[7] Fascist governments forbid and suppress criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.[8] Fascism opposes class conflict and blames capitalist liberal democracies for creating class conflict and in turn blames communists for exploiting class conflict.[9] No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists often disagree on what a concise definition would consist of.[10]
Fascism, modern political ideology that seeks to regenerate the social, economic, and cultural life of a country by basing it on a heightened sense of national belonging or ethnic identity. Fascism rejects liberal ideas such as freedom and individual rights, and often presses for the destruction of elections, legislatures, and other elements of democracy. Despite the idealistic goals of fascism, attempts to build fascist societies have led to wars and persecutions that caused millions of deaths. As a result, fascism is strongly associated with right-wing fanaticism, racism, totalitarianism, and violence.
Marxist historians and political scientists (that is, those who base their approach on the writings of German political theorist Karl Marx) view fascism as a form of politics that is cynically adopted by governments to support capitalism and to prevent a socialist revolution.
Originally posted by jdub297
Fascism is what it is, regardless of any attempt to justify or sugarcoat it.
... also, how does the definition you provide compare to say, the wiki definition
en.wikipedia.org...
The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (April 2009)
...
Fascism is a radical and authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2][3][4] No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists often disagree on what a concise definition would consist of.[10]
The central economic idea of all forms of fascism is corporatism. Corporatism is government control of the economy by cartelizing it, that is, by selecting favored firms in an industry. These favoured firms fix prices and create barriers to entry and obstacles for competitors, and by controlling which firms have corporate rights. The government thereby maintains a level of power over the economy.
In Italy, the Fascist period presided over the creation of the largest number of state-owned enterprises in Western Europe.
Fascists opposed laissez-faire economic policies dominant in the era prior to the Great Depression.[145] After the Great Depression began, many people from across the political spectrum blamed laissez-faire capitalism for the Great Depression, and fascists promoted their ideology as a "third way."
Fascist governments nationalized some key industries, managed their currencies and made some massive state investments. Fascist governments introduced price controls, wage controls and other types of economic interventionist measures.[149] Benito Mussolini promised a "social revolution" that would "remake" the Italian people.[158] The people who primarily benefited from Italian fascist social policies were members of the middle and lower-middle classes, who filled jobs in the vastly expanding government workforce, which grew from about 500,000 to a million jobs in 1930.[159] Health and welfare spending grew dramatically under Italian fascism, rising from 7% of the budget in 1930 to 20% in 1940.
Roger Griffin argued, "Not only does the location of fascism within the right pose taxonomic problems, there are good ground for cutting this particular Gordian knot altogether by placing it in a category of its own "beyond left and right."[44]
(Id.)
According to Paxton, fascism is
“a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.”[20]
Benito Mussolini promoted ambiguity about fascism's positions in order to rally as many people to it as possible, saying fascists can be "aristocrats or democrats, revolutionaries and reactionaries, proletarians and anti-proletarians, pacifists and anti-pacifists".[24] Mussolini claimed that Italian Fascism's economic system of corporatism could be identified as either state capitalism or state socialism, which in either case involved "the bureaucratisation of the economic activities of the nation."[25] Mussolini claimed that fascism could be both revolutionary and conservative.[26]
(Id.)
All fascist movements advocate the creation of an authoritarian government that is an autocratic single-party state led by a charismatic leader with the powers of a dictator. Many fascist movements support the creation of a totalitarian state. The Italian Doctrine of Fascism states: "The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people."[73]
A key element of fascism is its endorsement of a prime national leader, who is often known simply as the "Leader" or a similar title, such as: Duce in Italian, Führer in German, Caudillo in Spanish, or Conducător in Romanian. The fascist movement demands obedience to the leader, and may exhort people worship the leader as an infallible saviour of the people.
Fascist states have pursued policies of indoctrination of society to their fascist movements such as through propaganda deliberately spread through education and media through regulation of the production of education and media material.[89][90]
interesting differences can be noted between these more general concepts of fascism and the definition you have provided.
If you're going to selectively 'quote' Wikipedia, wouldn't it be more honest to include their disclaimer?
"The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved. (April 2009)" -wiki
And if you're going to relate a general discussion of fascism to economics, wouldn't it be more honest to use the Wikipedia section labelled "Economic Fascism?"
And, when you selectively quote Roger Griffin, were you being intentionally deceptive or did you just "overlook" the most relevant part?
Roger Griffin argued, "Not only does the location of fascism within the right pose taxonomic problems, there are good ground for cutting this particular Gordian knot altogether by placing it in a category of its own "beyond left and right."[44]
(Id.)
When you chose to selectively quote Griffin, why did you exclude the adjacent references to two other "authorities?" Did you expect that most ATS readers would just accept your mischaracterizations and NOT read the entire article?
No, there are no 'interesting differences' about economic fascism, but it is interesting that you selectively choose only certain parts of Wikipedia's 2,000+ word article that suit your bias, instead of the specific sections dealing with economic fascism and the fascist ideology.
As you can see, a thorough and complete consideration of even such a poor source as the Wikipedia blogspot can show that Barack Obama is truly following a clear, undeniable fascist economic agenda.
Thanks for the tip. Glad to help you complete "the rest of the story."
Selective quotation is almost equal to ad hominem as a betrayal of the lack of substance in an argument and the bias of its author.
Deny ignorance!
jw
The above disclaimer was ONLY displayed in the section entitled "Economic Policies" which is why I did not quote that section, but I see you felt like it was worth quoting, so be it...
There is not a section in wiki called 'Economic Fascism" as I noted above. There is a section entitled "Economic Policies" but I chose not to include it because of the disclaimer you pointed out clearly stating the questionable nature of the content, the content YOU quoted, not me.
Pray tell, how is this the most relevant part? Is it because it dismisses party lines? If so I did not include it because nothing in what I am saying is party oriented...
... you used the disclaimer as if it called into question the entire article when in fact it was ONLY posted for the section on 'economic policies'....
I was pointing out, something you have completely ignored, and danced around my point rather rudely, that fascism is not necessarily the take over of corporations by the government, but in the case of the USA the take over of the government by the corporations.
... my point stands
... the point I am making is simple and all it requires for validation is the fact that fascism can work either direction, and in the USA it was the corporations taking over government.