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My Take On The Religious Right, Obama, & Notre Dame

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posted on May, 4 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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Now that I made that point (or the Illuminati did for you) I think Obama is one of their puppets and he is going to really really screw us over. I'm just saying now is the time to wake up to this, because Obama's agenda is linked. There is even a video game that predicts the 44th president's assasination! You know what I'm referring to Gawdzilla. I'll post that as well it makes so much sense.




posted on May, 4 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
Oh so in the Catholic religion there is a moral "weight" to what is right and what is wrong.

YES. And the Catholic Church has a right to interpret scripture any way it wishes. Just as you can interpret it any way you wish. Just as protestants can interpret it any way they wish.

Notre Dame is part of that organization and therefore it must abide by the rules and interpretations of that organization. Otherwise, they need to drop the 'Catholic' from the name of the school.


You either sin or you dont. Period.

Wrong (again). Tell that to the writers of scripture.

Degrees of sin -

1 John 5:16-17.- "If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal' I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal."

John 19:11 - "Jesus anwered him 'you would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

******************
Mat 5: 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 5: 27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

These quotes show two levels of sin. The "least of these" (verse 19) are minor sins but only makes one "least in the kingdom." But in verse 27 it says if you commit grave sin (adultery) you will go to hell. These are mortal sin as John said. DIFFERENT LEVELS.
********************

And here's one for the OP to take a careful look at ...


Matt 7:5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

A mote is smaller than a beam,
Difference sins have different magnitudes


Also your facts on the death penalty are either out dated or wrong here is their stance

Wrong again. The facts are NOT outdated or wrong.
The Catechism is the law of the Catholic Church.
It has not been superseded by anyone or anything.


That is murder not self defense.

Again .. that's YOUR interpretation. You can't place your subjective interpretation onto a CATHOLIC organization and expect that CATHOLIC organization to follow your subjective interpreted rules. The Catholic Church has it's own rules to follow. Notre Dame is part of that organization and therefore it must follow the CATHOLIC rules .. not your anti-Catholic subjective ones.


Jesus listened to all and didnt care what kind of sinner you were.

Jesus threw the money changers out of His Father's house.


They are getting a catholic education I dont think obama is changing anyones education.

The rules of the organization are that no abortionist .. no one who supports abortion ... no politician that pushes for abortion ... are supposed to address the students. It doesn't matter what he would say. The fact that he is being honored with a degree, and honored with by putting him in a position to speak to students, RAISES him up as someone worthy of such a thing. Clearly, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, he is not.


Your hypocrisy is quite laughable.

Your ignorance is pathetic.
Facts aren't hypocrisy.
Get a grip.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
YES. And the Catholic Church has a right to interpret scripture any way it wishes. Just as you can interpret it any way you wish. Just as protestants can interpret it any way they wish.

Notre Dame is part of that organization and therefore it must abide by the rules and interpretations of that organization. Otherwise, they need to drop the 'Catholic' from the name of the school.


I don't remember the 10 commandments saying anything about this sin is more sinful than others or this sin = 5 sin points whereas this sin = 3 sin points. Did the 10 commandments have anything like that? Isn't that where the Catholics base their sins on? I mean aside from actually believing that God spoke to Moses can man just change or add amendments to gods word? Can they add levels of sin one over another?



YES. And the Catholic Church has a right to interpret scripture any way it wishes. Just as you can interpret it any way you wish. Just as protestants can interpret it any way they wish.

I guess that sums that up. I guess your right. Man made religions can have the rules changed and re interpreted by man at will just like the religion and the views have changed over the last 1000 years or so....






You either sin or you dont. Period.

Wrong (again). Tell that to the writers of scripture.


Wrong am I? You want quotes here are Jesus quotes in regards to the commandments...

Commandment 3 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men" (Mat 12:31). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts,...blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20).

Hell let me just put the site up
www.cogwriter.com...

I see a lot of double speak between these quotes and yours. You either are a sinner and will be forgiven or you arent. Jesus said either you obey the commandments and love me or you don't. No where in the commandments does it give levels of sin. That is crap. In fact the idea that god talks to people is crap but Ill leave that to another thread.


Wrong again. The facts are NOT outdated or wrong.
The Catechism is the law of the Catholic Church.
It has not been superseded by anyone or anything.

No you're wrong the Vatican is 100% against death penalties.
en.wikipedia.org...

here is the churchs take on death...
www.catholicnewsagency.com...

Just so you know I personally for the death penalty so Im not trying to create facts that arent there....Eye for an Eye...


Again .. that's YOUR interpretation. You can't place your subjective interpretation onto a CATHOLIC organization and expect that CATHOLIC organization to follow your subjective interpreted rules. The Catholic Church has it's own rules to follow. Notre Dame is part of that organization and therefore it must follow the CATHOLIC rules .. not your anti-Catholic subjective ones.

Frankly I don't think the Catholics even know how to interpret their writings because their interpretations have changed so many times I've lost track. I'm not anti Catholic I respect anyone's wishes to pray to whatever. I cant stand the hypocrisy, The judgment onto others, and the holier than thou attitudes. Jesus wasn't like this so why are the so called Catholics this way? I also don't think government should endorse or prosecute religions also.



The rules of the organization are that no abortionist .. no one who supports abortion ... no politician that pushes for abortion ... are supposed to address the students. It doesn't matter what he would say. The fact that he is being honored with a degree, and honored with by putting him in a position to speak to students, RAISES him up as someone worthy of such a thing. Clearly, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, he is not.


Can you show me where in the bible it says that if you are for abortion that thou shall not speakith to Catholics.


Your ignorance is pathetic.
Facts aren't hypocrisy.
Get a grip.

No ignorance here I'm just calling out the hypocrisy known as the Catholic religion and its hypocritical minions.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost
I don't remember the 10 commandments saying anything about this sin is more sinful than others

:shk: There is more in scripture then just the 10 commandments.
Jeeeze .. I just spoon fed you these .. did you even read them?
1 John 5:16-17
John 19:11
Mat 5: 19
Mat 5: 27
Matt 7:5
There ARE different degrees of sin according to scripture.


Wrong am I?

Continually.


You want quotes here are Jesus quotes in regards to the commandments...

You are again mixing apples and oranges. I didn't say that the sins were more or less forgiven. YOU claimed that there weren't degrees of sin. Scripture clearly states that there ARE degrees of sin.


No where in the commandments does it give levels of sin.

I never said it was in the 10 commandments. I said it was in scripture.
And I gave quotes. Straight from the Apostles and Christ.


That is crap.

No .. your strange preoccupation with the 10 commandments instead of all of scripture is crap. Keep flinging that poo jeffersonsghost ... you are getting it all over yourself.



No you're wrong

I'm correct. I quoted directly from the Catechism.


Frankly I don't think the Catholics even know how to interpret their writings because their interpretations have changed so many times

Well have proven that YOU certainly can't interpret Catholic writings, nor the rules by which Catholic institutions govern themselves. That's for damn sure.


I cant stand the hypocrisy, The judgment onto others, and the holier than thou attitudes. Jesus wasn't like this so why are the so called Catholics this way?

As I said ... the OP should take a look in the mirror and read this ..

Matt 7:5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

(and as I said, this also shows a degree of difference in sin - A mote is smaller than a beam, Difference sins have different magnitudes)


Can you show me where in the bible it says that if you are for abortion that thou shall not speakith to Catholics.

Already stated over and over ... it's a rule of the CATHOLIC institution not to honor abortionists with the place of honor at awards ceremonies, nor give them honorary degrees. Notre Dame has as it's law to not allow abortionists into their sanctuary. It's their right to decide the laws by which they will govern themselves. Deal with it.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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Politicians and religions are used as puppets.

The spiritual goal is to transcend all the puppets. IMO all the tools that man uses all are contaminated, faulty, and create false illusions.

Religion is scary as is government control.

Watch; "The Handmaids Tale." A movie based on a book written by Margaret Atwood. She shows in a futuristic way the real scare of religion dominated politics.

Oh, a world without politics and religion!



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Already stated over and over ... it's a rule of the CATHOLIC institution not to honor abortionists with the place of honor at awards ceremonies, nor give them honorary degrees. Notre Dame has as it's law to not allow abortionists into their sanctuary. It's their right to decide the laws by which they will govern themselves. Deal with it.




We'll agree to disagree on the interpretations because neither of us can prove or disprove the true intent but this last statement I want to address. I agree Notre Dame has the right to turn away whoever they want. I'm not saying they dont. What I'm saying is its hypocritical to not allow this man to speak when there is enough sin to go around especially in the Catholic world. I mean need I bring up all the little boys, gay sex, adultery, and on and on. Jesus taught compassion and forgiveness and helping your fellow man and this is not what you get from a lot of modern day Catholics. I just hope if they do indeed decide to turn him down they never let Newt Gingrich or McCain speak there....... Its bad enough they allow a murderer speak there....



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by tjeffersonsghost

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I find it ironic that you have no clue what the Catholic Church teaching is on CATHOLIC Universities following Catholic law and you have no idea what the Catholic Church teaching regarding the death penalty.


Oh so in the Catholic religion there is a moral "weight" to what is right and what is wrong. Its not whats right and whats wrong its wrong to what extent. Umm Ok....
You either sin or you dont. Period.


Not if you are Catholic:

Sinning Peon: "Bless me father for I have sinned."

Father Flannigan: "No Problem Peon, 'X' times around the Rosary, and we're good.

("X" = moral weight)



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by UrsusMajor
 


There you go. You're not supposed to ask the Pope(especially one who says aliens are our brothers in space) for forgiveness. That's not the right doctrine in itself.



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by UrsusMajor


Not if you are Catholic:

Sinning Peon: "Bless me father for I have sinned."

Father Flannigan: "No Problem Peon, 'X' times around the Rosary, and we're good.

("X" = moral weight)




I stand corrected

Second line



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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You know.. I find it difficult to keep up with your multiple personality disorder tjeffersonsbigunit (your new name, I think you'll agree it's much more fitting haha).



So President Obama has been invited to speak at Notre Dame which seems to really be pissing off the religious right. In their eyes Obama who supports abortion should not be speaking there because of the Church’s stance on abortion which is no abortions. I mean you even have people turning down awards because they don’t want to share the same stage as President Obama. Wow. I guess I can understand their point of view but I just happen to disagree with it and I’ll go into that next.


To this I believe the basic reason the Religious Right (not to be confused with a Conservative) would do something like this is because it's indocternated "Liberal bad, Conservative Gooood". My bet is even if the Obamanator was against Abortion they would find another reason to be angry about his appearance.

Personally, I find the entire debate on Abortion to be hypocritical to an extreme. For instance, the people most riled up over the topic appear to be religious men, who, I find it odd believe they have a say in the matter. Unless it was their kid of course.

But anyways, politically the two groups are quite identical, socially very different. Just as Bush was booed and hated by the "Liberals" even though he was the most Liberal Republican to ever grace the Oval Office, the people refuse to not be divided on some petty issue like Abortion or gay rights. Crap that is never debated on in Congress or in the Executive Branch.

Perhaps we can just call it Self Righteous Ignorance



I think the religious right have a lot of soul searching to do. I think people are starting to realize that religion and government should not mix nor should morality and government. It’s not the government’s job to tell people how to live their lives or push some religious agenda on the people.


True, true.. I for one believe it's also no the Governments job to take religion FROM us either. A lot of the policies in the past 20 years.. the rampant political correctness.. has done irreparable harm to this country. In the quest to equalize we have taken just as many, if not more, rights. So honestly, how can we blame people for clinging on to their most extreme beliefs? The Government and the Liberal Left have already stolen Christmas and public displays of Christianity. It's insanity. So when you look at "cause and effect" it's hard to tell where the circle starts and ends, no?

And ironically both ways you look at it:

Over zealous self righteous religious bantering

or

Hyped up Liberal political correctness taking many religious customs out of public view pushing the religious into a corner to defend their strongest of beliefs

Can all be contributed to Government Intervention in our personal lives.

I don't like the Religious people of the World, especially Christians and Muslims to push their views on to others. I have zero tolerance for it. But at the same time I also cannot stand the Non-Religious pushing their views onto people to. And it is my belief in the past 20 years the Secular Left have pushed and pushed and pushed.. so if your trying to make the "Religious Right" as bad guys.. sorry. I don't buy it. there is a LOT of blame to go around!



posted on May, 4 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


I like the new name you have given me.
As I pointed out earlier to Flyersfan Im not for government taking away religion also. I think the First Amendment was written well and we should keep it this way. You have the freedom to pray to whatever the hell you want to without having the government tell you who to pray to. If the founding fathers wanted a theocracy they could of stayed in England and the Church of England. I think the Xmas tree war is dumb to. Although I dont want the government to tell me how to pray I also recognize that 70% of the country is Christian/Catholic and if they want a tree in their yard damnit they should be allowed to put up their ornaments.

I agree also that the non religious tend to push their ideology just as much as the others do. Maybe someday we can find that happy medium. BTW I couldnt respond that one time because I drank with some friends and I was quite hammered when I got home and read your message
I havent drank since it was that bad....

[edit on 4-5-2009 by tjeffersonsghost]



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