Obama Supports Treaty Outlawing Gun Possession!

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by maybereal11

 

So... WTF is your point then??? Sounds like making guns illegal in this country wouldn't change a thing in Mexico. Your posts make no sense.

Look, I understand that you're afraid of guns. I get that. I also get that you're prepared to change the Constitution in THIS country for a false sense of security in another country even though the cartel would still have guns - lots of them! But you're not making a lick of sense. You're stretching from one non-sequitur to another completely abandoning your previous argument every step of the way. Tis the Liberal way, sadly!

You'd serve yourself well to read a little Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin!

I have read an enormous amount of Thomas jefferson and Ben Franklin..biographies, the Adams/Jefferson letters..anything I can get my hands on. I have written about Jefferson.

I am not afraid of guns.
I am an unwaivering supporter of the constitution.
I own guns.

But being a gun owner doesn't not mean that I must sacrifice my sense of honesty for whatever spin campaign the NRA or GOP chooses to run.

This thread title is flirting with the "hoax" tag. The treaty does not outlaw gun possesion. It addrsses ILLICIT gun traficking. I have provided links demonstrating the same as well as links describing how the guns are being trafficked.

You made some dumb argument about securing the border instead...I argued convincingly that the drug cartels have a great deal of money and resources...submarines and UAVs for example.... that the best way to stop gun trafficking or drugs for that matter is to go after suppliers or reduce demand.

This treaty specifically goes after illegal gun traffickers. Even the NRA has publicly acknowledged this.

You are suggesting securing the borders with Mexico and Canada and both coasts......How? walls? A monumental naval blockade?

And I am not "making a lick of sense?"

Originally posted by Snisha

Originally posted by jimmyx

ok...all you people...READ THE F'IN CIFTA PAPER COMPLETELY!!! it took me 5 minutes to find where they DO NOT ban ownership, sales, even trading of weapons...what's wrong with you.

Perhaps it would be prudent to not only read H.R. 45 but comprehend what it implies also.

The measure calls for all handgun owners to submit to the federal government an application that shall include, among many other things: a photo; an address; a thumbprint; a completed, written firearm safety test; private mental health records; and a fee. And those are only some of the requirements to be licensed!

The bill would further require the attorney general to establish a database of every handgun sale, transfer, and owner's address in America. Moreover, the bill would make it illegal to own or possess a "qualifying firearm" -- defined as "any handgun; or any semiautomatic firearm that can accept any detachable ammunition feeding device without one of the proposed licenses

www.nraila.org...

That looks to me as if they want to ban ownership, sales and trade of firearms to me.

Originally posted by jd140
That looks to me as if they want to ban ownership, sales and trade of firearms to me.

No where in that document does it mention BANNING weapons, it only proposes issuing licenses to people who want to own one.

Here it is, straight from the HR 45 document itself.

H. R. 45

QUALIFYING FIREARM.—The term ‘‘qualifying firearm’’
9 has the meaning given the term in
10 section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, as
11 amended by subsection (b) of this section.
12 (b) AMENDMENT TO TITLE 18, UNITED STATES
13 CODE.—Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code,
14 is amended by adding at the end the following:
15 ‘‘(36) The term ‘qualifying firearm’—
16 ‘‘(A) means—
17 ‘‘(i) any handgun; or
18 ‘‘(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that
19 can accept any detachable ammunition
20 feeding device; and
21 ‘‘(B) does not include any antique.’’.
******SKIP******
IN GENERAL.—It shall be unlawful for any
person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license

Sounds pretty simple to me, get a firearms licenseand you can own any "qualifying" firearm you want!

I don't see anything in the HR 45 that would lead me to believe that it was intended to ban ANY firearm, it only is calling for the licensing of "qualifying" firearms.

You have to pass a test and get a license to drive a car, I see no reason why people should feel like they are being denied the ability to own a firearm just because they might also have to pass a test and get a license to own a gun.

As for the mental health records thing, who wants some deranged person going out and buying a gun anytime they wanted to.

I am not an anti-gun person and own a gun or two myself, but I just feel that all of this is being blown out of proportion!

[edit on 5/5/2009 by Keyhole]

I'm sorry for all Americans that are represented by the few red necks in this topic.

I'm not American, nor am I a hippy. I just think guns and killing people are bad. War is bad. Greed is bad.

The most dangerous people on this planet are the insecure. And I think we have a few at ATS.

Peace & Love.

reply to post by Keyhole


Honestly, it doesn't matter to me. I have my weapons and a concealed weapons permit so it doesn't affect me one way or another.

reply to post by Snisha


HR.45 makes a great scare story, and I agree it's a dopey bill, but it has pretty much no chance of getting passed.

The gun control crowd can't even get the politically popular "Assault Weapons" ban up for a vote, let alone a far more onerous piece of legislation like HR.45.

If the Democrats were really marching in lockstep on gun control, there might be something to worry about, but this years legislative wins (and 2006's for that matter) for the Democrats included a lot of so called "Blue Dog Democrats" and their allies who generally don't have much use for gun control legislation.

The new AWB died stillborn thanks to a group of 65 democrats who said they would oppose it.

I suspect that whatever gun control advocates might want, gun control at the federal level is a dead issue for at least the next two years, and likely far longer.

Even self-identified liberals are starting to notice that gun control legislation in this country has had no effect on gun violence (except perhaps to make it worse).

There's just a lot of misuse with firearms.

Originally posted by Hawkwind.
I don't see what the fuss is about. We aren't allowed guns in this country and there's less violent crime/murder than there is in the U.S.

Isn't it possible that your guns being taken away is a price worth paying? You can use stun guns or cattle prods to protect you instead can't you? Does your defence HAVE to be lethal? Can you not use non-lethal devices instead? That way we won't have to read about kids accidently blowing their heads off because they've been playing with Daddy's gun? (okay I know tht particular example is rare but it's only an example)

Now, obviously I'm going to get a pro-gun rant aimed at what I've just said, I'll probably be subject to a few examples of situations where people's lives have been saved due to gun ownership but when it comes down to it abolishing guns would save more lives than having them, hide behind the second amendment all you like but that's a fact.

This is what makes America unique from all the nations of the world. The right to bear arms is a true freedom that is not expressed by many. Especially in the more civilized world.

It is well within our constitutional rights to bear arms. Our founders were very smart individuals, who knew all to well about over reaching powers via the government. If stuff ever hits the proverbial fan in this country, I want to be sure Im well equipped.

Everyone needs to relax. This will not take our guns away in any means, I love how some people on here just explode and say hell no I'll kill you if you take my guns from me... Its not going to happen. Relax, breath, think. One good thing about your citizens having guns is that in case of invasion we have country that is ready to protect its self. Not just from our own government but from any foreign army that is foolish enough to try and invade us...

[edit on 5-5-2009 by iamjesusphish]

reply to post by Hawkwind.


Ive read your worthless reply, with no facts to back up your claim that your country is better off without a firearm. Couple things I would like to remind you of. First, know your role, your a subject under a Queen, and King. Second, Here in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, we are NOT a subject. I know this might seem strange to ya, we have the right to own, and bear arms.....Guess your history books deleted that too. Ill keep this short, in AMERICA, We are given a GOD given right to bear, and own arms. With this right, we are NOT a subject, but a citizen. I know, that freedom isnt something you can relate to, I understand that the United States is here for that simple fact, that us colonists, were done, with dealing with stupid people. I see some of ya are still breathing. I ask that you keep your opinion to yourself, cuz Im betting that you didnt run it buy a queen, or king.

reply to post by cyberpilot


On a different note, on one can fix stupid. Sorry to see you brits are stuck on that.

reply to post by Animal


I see your from New Mexico. You need to get that tunnel vision fixed. I live NM. You should know more than anyone that a gun is almost a requirement for living here, not to mention drunk driving in this state kills more people than guns do, that’s a fact. NM is a big state with lots of open space in the desert. There is rattle snakes, coyotes etc. I walk my labs everyday in the morning desert it’s very nice. Then I ran into four coyotes one morning or they ran into me. I only had rocks to throw. I had to throw a lot to get them to back off. But this pack was brave. Lucky for me they left.

Now I know why I see some people out there with a holstered pistol on their side. I was warned, but now I understand why they do. This is why I’m buying side arm.

If you live in Albuquerque, you know our mayor has leash laws. Only cretin parks to walk your dogs etc.. This is why I walk them in the desert now. I’m not going to shoot the coyotes , but a good warning shot always does the job. But in case I’m attacked , yes I will shoot.

Im not a crazed killer.

This is all because of politics, I can’t walk my dong in the park without a leash, I was threatened I would be fined or they could destroy my Labradors as well. The city of Albuquerque are the killers.

I know you watch the news here in NM and read the newspapers. You, of all people should tell everyone in this forum how that women at Wal-Mart was saved because of a another person carrying a concealed weapon . It was on every news channel and printed in every news paper. You seem to have left that out of your posts. So I will tell them

A women was stabbed 27 times by her boy friend at Wal-Mart about 3 weeks ago at the deli counter. The assailant was shot and killed in the Wal-Mart store by another person carrying a concealed weapon. The Women lived and still is in serious condition. The police stated if it was not for the person carrying the concealed weapon she would have died.

Was the person that saved her life a crazed killer. I think not.

Again see your eye doctor and get that tunnel vision fixed.

Now let’s get on with the topic discussion. Not your personal beliefs. That’s for another topic.





[edit on 6-5-2009 by SJE98]

Ok, people from the UK ( England ) Stop already. We know what you think. This topic is about taking away or threatening to take a away United States Citizens right to own a weapon. I.e. the 2nd amendment. I’m sure most you residing in the UK have no idea what the 2nd amendment is or have read it. if you’re not a citizen of the USA then butt out already. This is not a topic on your personal beliefs and the laws of Great Brittan. get over yourselfs already.

reply to post by SJE98


Your arrogance is just the type of attitude that causes the rest of the world to truly despise American's.
The smug sense of self-importance displayed by many here should be an embarresment to any self-respecting US citizen.
You think you have the right to comment on anything and everything that goes on in the world yet deny the self same right to non-US citizens to comment on US issues.
Arrogance and hypocrisy.

And for the record, I am no more a 'subject' of The Queen than you are to your President.
The Queen has very little power or say on matters of government.

Before spouting your mouth off and making fools of yourselves I suggest you do a bit of research and try to think for yourselves instead of repeating the nonsensical rhetoric you appear to be doing so.

I understand this is about US gun control, which is why I posted my thoughts on it on page1.

Nothing in this world is black and white.
What is right for the US may not necessarily be right for the rest of the world.
You want to defend your right to bear arms, I respect and understand that, it is as American as Apple Pie etc.
We have never had the right, and don't want it.
Pretty simple in my book.

Sorry if added fuel to the flames but really annoys me that the typical responses from US members is either 'keep out our business' or 'we fought and gained your freedom'.
Both complete and utter bollocks and do nothing but make American's look like retarded country bumpkin yokels with no world view whatsoever.
I know the vast majority of Americans do not fit this description.

this is simply obama taking yor guns,by putting the blame on someone else.
napolitano said it and this confirms it. these fascist idiots are declaring war on the american people.

WHO DOES NOBAMA REALLY CARE ABOUT? NOT US OR OUR CONSTITUTION.
one man does not make the country. we do ...wake up,and stand up,or regret it forever

There are places in this vast country where fire arms are a necessary tool that is used on varying occasions to control predatory, destructive and diseased animals, that are not of the human species..... Recently I hear gunfire on a regular basis due to wild hogs and coyotes that are taking a big toll on livestock, crops and property.... Legislating fire arm ownership will have the same effect on illegal activity in gun trading as the anti drug laws have had on drug activity.... I think all of the name calling and extremist rhetoric, that is always prevalent when there is discussion about his topic, does more harm than good and alienates people that might otherwise be willing to listen to more than one side of this issue.

I would like to reiterate what I said about the need for fire arms in rural areas..... Just seconds after my previous post, I heard a single gunshot. That means that there is one less disease spreading, destructive and dangerous wild hog to breed more of the same.... Where I live, when you need a gun there is no other substitute.

reply to post by SJE98

How about you get over yourself you fool . No I am not American but I understand the general idea behind the 2nd amendment enough to be able to talk about it rationally. This is an open discussion and I will not be told that I am not allowed in it. This is for people of all nations. How dare you have the nerve to tell people to get over themselves and then act arrogant because of the country you live in. Shame on you. I will continue to speak my mind on topics I have a view on.

Please take your arrogance elsewhere. I here enough verbal # in the real world without prigs like you writing it on here.

-Cauch1

Originally posted by SJE98
Ok, people from the UK ( England ) Stop already. We know what you think. This topic is about taking away or threatening to take a away United States Citizens right to own a weapon. I.e. the 2nd amendment. I’m sure most you residing in the UK have no idea what the 2nd amendment is or have read it. if you’re not a citizen of the USA then butt out already. This is not a topic on your personal beliefs and the laws of Great Brittan. get over yourselfs already.

Well would you look at that, an American dicatating to other countries what they can and can not do, sounds familiar that. (that's not a dig at ALL Americans btw, I have respect for most)

Originally posted by fastest636
reply to post by Hawkwind.

 

Ive read your worthless reply, with no facts to back up your claim that your country is better off without a firearm. Couple things I would like to remind you of. First, know your role, your a subject under a Queen, and King. Second, Here in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, we are NOT a subject. I know this might seem strange to ya, we have the right to own, and bear arms.....Guess your history books deleted that too. Ill keep this short, in AMERICA, We are given a GOD given right to bear, and own arms. With this right, we are NOT a subject, but a citizen. I know, that freedom isnt something you can relate to, I understand that the United States is here for that simple fact, that us colonists, were done, with dealing with stupid people. I see some of ya are still breathing. I ask that you keep your opinion to yourself, cuz Im betting that you didnt run it buy a queen, or king.

Well, my slack-jawed yokel, you are right, we do have a monarchy, but could you explain how....and I'm talking practically speaking.....you are any more free than I?

i personally never gave much thought to gun control, but, my mom of all people is a gun owner and it wasn't until i started looking for good gun control sites did i realize there was so much more to it all ...

but obama doesn't scare me in the sense i think he'll take guns or anything like that.

www.examiner.com... t