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Originally posted by weedwhacker
Also, we should investigate the chain of custody of the units after they were dug out of the ground.
While that may be so, was the pilot able to identify the UA plane by its tail registration number or just the colour scheme?
Also, we should attempt to reconcile the fact that another airplane in the vicinity, a Bizjet, was able to visually identify the UAL B757 at about 8,000 feet MSL just before the crash.
Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by TrueAmerican
TA, oh come on!
Every part is different!! Some parts will be cast, with numbers. But, other units will have the black and silver metal data plate...whether riveted on, or glued on. Go ask a real aircraft mechanic!
Not at all, Swampfox! No need!
Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
I guess I should go back and edit my post and list all the reasons why I suspect those photos arent genuine...cause appearantly you have fixated on the subject.
Originally posted by Reheat
I'm going to end my participation in this ridiculous thread by clearly stating that all of the RECORDED evidence combined with the crash scene evidence analyzed as a whole indicates that UA 93 indeed crashed at the site where all of the final reports indicate that it did.
Originally posted by tezzajw
I agree with you. There should be chain of custody for any claims being made.
We might as well start with the complete chain of custody for the alleged black boxes found from the alleged Flight UA93 that were allegedly *cough* dug out of the spongy, soft earth *cough, cough*.
FAA Withholds Pre-9/11 ID Confirming Aircraft Serial Number Data Of 9/11 Planes
A Freedom of Information Act request of the Federal Aviation Administration, seeking the last known serial number data of aircraft components contained by the aircraft used to carry out the 9/11 attacks, that are known to have been collected by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and National Transportation Safety Board from all 3 9/11 plane crash scenes, has been denied. ...
Around 4:50 p.m. on September 13, investigators discover the flight data recorder from Flight 93, one of the plane’s two “black boxes.” It is buried about 15 feet down in the main crater at the crash site, near Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Around 8:25 p.m. the following evening, the other ‘black box’—the plane’s cockpit voice recorder—is found about 25 feet below ground in roughly the same spot.
The flight data recorder monitors airplane functions like its speed and altitude, while the cockpit voice recorder picks up conversations in the plane’s cockpit. Both are mounted in a plane’s tail. They are encased in very strong materials, like titanium, and insulated so as to withstand a crash impact.
History Commons UA93 events
posted by Orion7911
If you or anyone believes the lie that UA93 and its blackbox somehow was able to bury itself 25 feet underground, then its a great time for the shanksville challenge.
Originally posted by impressmeGlad you brought up the Air Force. I don’t know if you are just unable to be honest about your background or what. The system in place for investigating Air Force/ Military aviation crashes is entirely, and I mean entirely different from civil/commercial investigations.
posted by Reheat
If AF/Military aviation crash investigations are so vastly different from civil/commercial investigations then why did you waste bandwidth and everyone's time by posting Col. GEORGE NELSON'S OPINION? After all, his experience is based purely on his Air Force training and experience!
Seems to me, since that's all you have Nelson's opinion is not valid. Therefore, you have ZERO/ZIP/NADA evidence that an aircraft's serial numbered parts are a requirement to prove a crashed aircraft's identification by either the NTSB or the FBI.
posted by Reheat
Oh, I've seen Nelson's stuff before. He is correct until he gets into his "truther" motivated crap regarding aircraft identification.
I can produce statements by other USAF Qualified Aircraft Investigators who don't agree with Col. Nelson.
VIDEO DOCUMENTS HOW FLIGHT 93 DID NOT CRASH IN SHANKSVILLE BUT CONTINUED ON FLYING SOUTHEAST OVER INDIAN LAKE MILES PAST THE CRASH SITE
Aircraft Parts and the Precautionary Principle
Impossible to Prove a Falsehood True:
Aircraft Parts as a Clue to their Identity
by George Nelson
Colonel, USAF (ret.)
The precautionary principle is based on the fact it is impossible to prove a false claim. Failure to prove a claim does not automatically make it false, but caution is called for, especially in the case of a world-changing event like the alleged terror attacks of September 11, 2001. The Bush administration has provided no public evidence to support its claim that the terror attacks were the work of Muslim extremists or even that the aircraft that struck their respective targets on September 11 were as advertised. As I will show below, it would be a simple matter to confirm that they were - if they were. Until such proof is forthcoming, the opposite claim must be kept in mind as a precaution against rushing to judgment: the 911 hijackings were part of a black operation carried out with the cooperation of elements in our government.
United Airlines Flight 93
This flight was reported by the federal government to be a Boeing 757 aircraft, registration number N591UA, carrying 45 persons, including four Arab hijackers who had taken control of the aircraft, crashing the plane in a Pennsylvania farm field.
Aerial photos of the alleged crash site were made available to the general public. They show a significant hole in the ground, but private investigators were not allowed to come anywhere near the crash site. If an aircraft crash caused the hole in the ground, there would have literally hundreds of serially-controlled time-change parts within the hole that would have proved beyond any shadow of doubt the precise tail-number or identity of the aircraft. However, the government has not produced any hard evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that the specifically alleged aircraft crashed at that site. On the contrary, it has been reported that the aircraft, registry number N591UA, is still in operation.
American Airlines Flight 11
This flight was reported by the government to be a Boeing 767, registration number N334AA, carrying 92 people, including five Arabs who had hijacked the plane. This plane was reported to have crashed into the north tower of the WTC complex of buildings.
Again, the government would have no trouble proving its case if only a few of the hundreds of serially controlled parts had been collected to positively identify the aircraft. A Boeing 767 landing gear or just one engine would have been easy to find and identify.
United Airlines Flight 175
This flight was reported to be a Boeing 767, registration number N612UA, carrying 65 people, including the crew and five hijackers. It reportedly flew into the south tower of the WTC.
Once more, the government has yet to produce one serially controlled part from the crash site that would have dispelled any questions as to the identity of the specific airplane.
American Airlines Flight 77
This was reported to be a Boeing 757, registration number N644AA, carrying 64 people, including the flight crew and five hijackers. This aircraft, with a 125-foot wingspan, was reported to have crashed into the Pentagon, leaving an entry hole no more than 65 feet wide.
Following cool-down of the resulting fire, this crash site would have been very easy to collect enough time-change equipment within 15 minutes to positively identify the aircraft registry. There was apparently some aerospace type of equipment found at the site but no attempt was made to produce serial numbers or to identify the specific parts found. Some of the equipment removed from the building was actually hidden from public view.
Originally posted by SPrestonDid you just forget to post the statements by other USAF Qualified Aircraft Investigators who don't agree with Col. Nelson? Or couldn't you find any? Should I ask the aircraft crash investigators over at Pilots For 9/11 Truth to help you out?
Originally posted by Reheat
TrueAmerican - you stated that you are honest. Well, since I've proven the OP to be a false conclusion, how 'bout you admit as such? That's the honest thing to do!
And an OT ancillary has also been proven. The part serial number garbage so often quoted by truthers has also been proven to be a non-issue. In fact, that not only applies to you, but to all of the others who have tried to derail this thread by bringing it up. That list includes, but is not limited to "impressme" and SPreston. No one seems to be able to produce the Documentation to prove part serial numbers are required for a crashed aircraft's identification because IT DOES NOT EXIST.
Your hero who authored the article has only replied with a "personal attack" and an incredulity fallacy. Isn't it strange that he had no substantial reply to a "SLAM DUNK" refutation of his garbage.
Since that article is still posted on his Web Site with no corrections, that CONSTITUTES INTENTION DECEPTION. In other word it is now an implied LIE, which is his standard fare.
And you wonder why no one listens, except a gullible few.......
Originally posted by TrueAmerican