(visit the link for the full news article)
Air Traffic Control (ATC) transcripts reveal United 93 as being airborne after it's alleged crash. Similar scenarios have been offered with regard to American 77 and American 11 showing an aircraft target continuing past its alleged crash point in the case of American 11, or past the turn-around point in the case of American 77. However, both these issues can be easily explained by "Coast Mode" radar tracking. This is not the case with United 93.
Radar Coast Mode activates when a transponder is inoperative (or turned off) and primary radar tracking is lost, which enables ATC to have some sort of reference of the flight after losing radar coverage of the physical aircraft. When an aircraft target enters "Coast Mode", ATC is alerted in the form of a blue tag on the target as well as the tag letters switching to CST. ATC will readily recognize when an aircraft enters "Coast Mode".
According to National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) Flight Path Study, United 93 allegedly impacted the ground at 10:03am, September 11, 2001. The following transcript excerpts are provided by the Federal Aviation Administration. It is a conversation between Air Traffic Control System Command Center - East, Management Officers (ntmo-e) and other various facilities. The conversation is as follows in real time:
(relevant portions have been placed in bold)
1405 (10:05 a.m.)
ntmo-e: ok united ninety three we're now receiving a transponder on and he is at eighty two hundred feet
doug: now transponder and he's eighty two-hundred
ntmo-e: southeastbound still
doug: eighty two hundred feet and now getting a transponder on him
doug: ok buddy
ntmo-e: ok we've lost radar contact with united ninety three
United 93 transponder is recognized by Air Traffic Control as airborne after alleged impact time. Some have made the excuse this is due to Coast Mode tracking. ATC did not recognize any signs of CST (Coast Mode). Further confirmation that this was not any type of "Coast Mode" is that ATC also recognized United 93 reporting an altitude. The only way ATC could observe a reported altitude is if United 93 were squawking Mode C on the transponder, which means altitude reporting capability. Further confirmation comes in the form of latitude and longitude positions reported by ATC. N39 51 - W78 46 were reported as the last known radar position of United 93. It is unclear if the position is reported as Degrees, Minutes or Decimal, however, standard aviation terminology is in Degrees, Minutes. With that said, both positions are well past the alleged United 93 Crash site.
It is impossible for ATC to have observed United 93 transponder and altitude after the reported impact time and southeast of the crash site, if United 93 did in fact crash in Shanksville as the 9/11 Commission would have you believe.
Pilots For 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has analyzed Flight Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). The data does not support observed events. See Pandora's Black Box - Chapter Three - Flight Of United 93 for full in depth analysis of United 93 Flight Data Recorder (Black Box) data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.
Here's the account of Mark Barnick, who was a supervisor at Cleveland Center. He refers to 9:41, after UA93 had completed its U-Turn over Cleveland and switched off the transponder for the first time:
UAL93's transponder was then lost or shut off and the radar tag went into coast. Other aircraft in the area verified that they had visual ontact with UAL93 and that it was still flying southeastbound. In order to follow the aircraft, John Werth started a new flight following tag on UAL93's primary radar target. No altitude information was available and all other controllers were advised to keep all aircraft well away from the target of UAL93.
Originally posted by Reheat
Is there anyone with any common sense that believes the time an event is reported is the time that event occurred?
Do any of you commenting in this thread know the original source for that reputed conversation? Who were the individuals participating in the conversation, where did they work and what equipment was available to them?
Does anyone commenting know the ATC system well enough to be able to determine how this apparent time discrepancy might have occurred?
How do you suppose the aircraft crashed at some other location when TWO AIRCRAFT observed the reported crash site shortly after the crash, reported the description of the area (and in one case gave the lat/long coordinates) to ATC and those conversations are recorded and available on tape?
Do any of you realize that the reported seismic data was examined and the operator interviewed by the 911 Commission who found there was NO SIGNIFICANT seismic event?
This is just a beginning. Do you want more or are you more interested in perpetuating delusional ramblings of the idiots who originally posted and offered their analysis of this?
[edit on 4-5-2009 by Reheat]
[edit on 4-5-2009 by Reheat]
Originally posted by TrueAmerican...
But I guess an international group of professional pilots have nothing better to do than sit around and post false data on their website, eh? They have such a burning desire to deceive us that they spent all that time and money doing extensive research, building websites/forums, and acquiring source documents like this (take note reheat):
Geez, no wonder I don't fly anymore. Can't trust those lying pilots. Nope.
BTW, you're probably still safe to fly as (fortunately) only an incredibly small fraction of the pilots in the world are members of that group. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of pilots are smart enough not to be fooled by idiots.
Originally posted by turbofan
Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
the missing black box is a bit of concern however.
Since you are an auto mechanic
Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
yeah....uh... id really like a more reliable source. this seems really conspiracy theory-y. (no kidding lol ) im not sure what a 3 minute discrepancy really matters anyways. the missing black box is a bit of concern however.
Around 4:50 p.m. on September 13, investigators discover the flight data recorder from Flight 93, one of the plane’s two “black boxes.” It is buried about 15 feet down in the main crater at the crash site, near Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Around 8:25 p.m. the following evening, the other ‘black box’—the plane’s cockpit voice recorder—is found about 25 feet below ground in roughly the same spot. [Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/13/2001; Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/15/2001; Longman, 2002, pp. 217] The flight data recorder monitors airplane functions like its speed and altitude, while the cockpit voice recorder picks up conversations in the plane’s cockpit. [Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/14/2001] Both are mounted in a plane’s tail. They are encased in very strong materials, like titanium, and insulated so as to withstand a crash impact. [BBC, 9/15/2001]
The FBI's motion continues:
"As Federal Defendant has been focused on the search for records and the preparation of an explanatory letter to Plaintiff, it has not yet prepared a formal response to the Amended Complaint."
Documents for 2:07-cv-01614-RCJ-GWF can be accessed at The PACER Service Center.
"The PACER Service Center is the Federal Judiciary's centralized registration, billing, and technical support center for electronic access to U.S. District, Bankruptcy, and Appellate court records."
By document labeled "Specialist's Factual Report of Investigation Digital Flight Data Recorder" (United Airlines flight 93 - N591UA) it is revealed that the FDR's unique serial number identification information (traceable to a unique federally registered aircraft) is absent and that therefore, proper aircraft registration identification cannot be confirmed by this absent data.
By FAA documents identified as "Summary of Air Traffic Hijack Events", pages 4 and 13, it is indicated that American Airlines flight 11 (N334AA) and United Airlines flight 175 (N612UA) were not transmitting proper transponder identification data at the time of their respective destructions and that therefore, proper aircraft registration identification cannot have been obtained from this absent or erroneous data.
By documents labeled "NOTES TO CHAPTER 1", page 456, of the "Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States" (2004), it is indicated that "the CVRs and FDRs from American 11 and United 175 were not found" and that therefore, proper aircraft registration identification cannot have been obtained from this absent data.
By document labeled "Specialist's Factual Report of Investigation Digital Flight Data Recorder" (American Airlines flight 77 - N644AA), it is revealed that the FDR's unique serial number identification information (traceable to a unique federally registered aircraft) is absent and that therefore, proper aircraft registration identification cannot be confirmed by this absent data.