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Connect The Dots: Kalahari, MJ-12, Area 51, and EBE-3

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posted on May, 4 2009 @ 12:02 AM
Here is something that I found has not received hardly any attention on ATS.The Kalahari UFO crash of May 7th,1989.Well while digging through the research I started to see some similarities and congruities among the Kalahari crash (which is well documented and has not been debunked or exposed as a fraud to this date) and the Majestic Twelve(AKA:Majic,MJ-12).Further digging connects the picture even more, I am sure all of you are familiar with the “Alien interview at Area 51”,which I believe to be authentic and also has not been debunked, albeit has some skeptical. The footage is showing a “interview” with a Extraterrestrial Biological Entity or “EBE”. This is the third one that is commonly known to Ufologist to have been taken into custody of the United States government, thus the “3” at the end. The following post will contain a background on all the aforementioned topics.

Chapter Summary

1.Kalahari 1989
2.MJ-12:The All Controlling Entity
3.Area 51 and EBE-3
4.Conclusion of Evidence

1.Kalahari 1989

A major British UFO research organization consisting mainly of retired Police, Security and Military personnel, and its investigation of what may well be the most documentable case of the crash-retrieval of an unidentified flying disk to date: On the 7th of May, 1989, NORAD installations allegedly tracked an unidentified object as it entered African air-space. The South African Air Force is also said to have tracked the craft by radar, traveling at a calculated speed of 5746 nautical miles per hour. The incident was related by a South African Intelligence Worker, who along with documentation of his military position, also sent documents and transcripts to two QUEST INTERNATIONAL investigators, Tony Dodd and Henry Azadehdel, telling of the event. Also, several RECORDED telephone conversations with high-ranking military and government officials were obtained which strongly suggest that "something" did in fact happen over South African terrain. Some of these recorded conversations involved military officials in South Africa who strongly reprimanding the intelligence worker-turned-informer over the phone. This was due to the fact that the informer had left South Africa for Britain, where he stayed at the house of the researchers, and then later went into hiding.

Google Earth satellite imagery of the Kalahari desert from high altitude, showing other countries for reference.

Google Earth image showing a much nearer view of the desert, we can see that it is a very broad expanse of land.

Note: More than anything these images are to help you visualize the area the crash occurred.

Well here we have a ‘modern’ UFO crash account full of radar contact and a hostile take down by South African forces. More on the radar contact and ensuing take down…

"...The object entered South African air space at 13.52 GMT. Radio contact was attempted with object, but all communications proved futile. As a result two armed Mirage fighters were scrambled. A short time later the object suddenly changed course at great speed which would have been impossible for conventional aircraft to duplicate.

"At 13.59 GMT, Squadron Leader ----- the pilot of the fighter reported that hey had radar and visual confirmation of the object. The order was given to arm and fire the experimental aircraft-mounted Thor 2 laser cannon. This was done.

“Thor 2 laser cannon”?Sounds interesting, but that’s another thread. The main point here is that Earth forces reportedly shot down an alien spacecraft and apparently has the technology to take offensive measures against them.Anyways,that is how the craft was disabled and brought down. The South African’s were told to create a perimeter around the crash site and wait for USAF intelligence (recovery?) teams to arrive. Here is a brief excerpt of the trajectory of the crash…

"Squadron leader ----- reported that several blinding flashes emitted from the object which had started wavering whilst heading in a northerly direction. At 14.02 is was reported that the object was decreasing altitude at a rate of 3000 feet per minute. Then at speed it dived at an angle of 25 degrees and impacted in desert terrain 80 miles north of the South African border with Botswana, identified as the central Kalahari desert. Squadron leader ----- was instructed to circle the area until a retrieval team arrived. A team of Air Force Intelligence Officers, together with medical and technical staff were promptly taken to the area of impact for Investigation and retrieval.

A summation of the recovery teams findings and actions at the crash site:
1. A crater 150 meters wide and 12 meters deep .
2. A silver colored disc shaped craft embedded at a 40 degree angle.
3. Sand and rocks fused together by extreme heat.
4. Intense radioactive and electromagnetic activity (as always) around the site, disrupting equipment and causing one USAF helicopter to crash.
5. The object was moved to an undisclosed US Airforce base and the crash area was filled in with sane and rubble to disguise any evidence of a crash.

It is important to note that it appears the laser cannon did not directly disable the craft, but the energy surge from the laser likely caused the craft to malfunction, as its hydraulic type landing gears were lowered before impact. It is said that later, at the Airforce base the crafts door (which was already half open) was forced open and two beings wearing skin tight grey jumpsuits were found inside. The two beings were alive and were apparently promptly taken into custody. The appearance of the beings is as follows:

* Four to Five and a half feet tall.
* Smooth, hairless grayish-blue skin, the skin was reported as being “extremely tough”.
* Hairless, over-sized head with raised cheek bones and ark blue markings around the large, almond shaped eyes.
* Small nose with a slit for mouth.
* Long arms with three digits (fingers) on a webbed hand.
* Hips were short and narrow and the beings had no genitals.
* The legs were short and thin with webbed feet having three digits (toes) as well.
* The overall ‘skin’ looked similar to a scale type appearance.
* These beings also were reported to have “long , claw-like nails”.
* It is interesting to note that these creatures were reported as very aggressive, possibly because they were being taken into custody? Due to this it is said no blood or tissue samples could be taken (at the time?) and one of the creatures attacked an injured a doctor by “clawing him” in his face and chest”. This is interesting as these sound more like the “saurian greys” (Reptoids).

These beings were split up, with one being taken to Wright-Patterson AFB, and the other to Area 51 (this is the one we will concentrate on) . It is interesting to also note that these creatures describe near perfectly multiple descriptions by military officers and abductees. The following is the psychological report on these creatures….

* These beings can not act independently (like us) and require a group or ‘hive’ conscious. That is best described as a group of individual cells making up a much larger entity, this is directly analogous to cells and organ systems in our own human bodies.
* These beings appear to be on the “lower echelon” of the reptilian race. Possibly workers or scientists.

The Intelligence Officer who contacted QUEST INTERNATIONAL and provided them with the information, claims he did so out of concern for the security of the human race as a whole, and although he was pressured into signing a 'National Secrecy Act' form he believes that he would be guilty of treason against the human race if he did not disclose what he knew, and what the governments were trying to hide.

That concludes the information on the Kalahari crash. It seems like something very interesting happened on that May afternoon, something that definitely requires more research on a serious scale. I must say that I, myself, am satisfied that something did indeed happen over the South African skies in 1989.

2. MJ-12: The All Controlling Entity

During my research it became apparent that MJ-12 (as many, including myself suspect) is the ‘underwriter’ for all these crash retrievals. It is also apparent through research that they have greatly exceeded their original ‘sphere of power’ granted to them in 1947 by then President Harry Truman. The MJ-12 are reportedly responsible for custody of all EBE’s including the one from Roswell and the EBE-2 that reportedly volunteered to come to Earth (in 1964) so we could research its culture and itself. Here is some more info on the MJ-12…..

Continued Below....

[edit on 5/4/2009 by jkrog08]

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 12:02 AM
Those documents have not to this day been proven as hoaxes. I for one believe they are true, but there are some who would dispute that. I brought up MJ-12 because it is important to know who is in control of these crash retrievals. It should also be said that it is now reported that the MJ-12 is made up of international members, so it is not strictly American anymore. So where does the “dot connect” from MJ-12 to Kalahari and Area 51? Here is a quick report made claiming MJ-12 involvement in not only two other well known crashes, but (guess what!) the Kalahari crash as well.

We also looked at putative government agents who appear to be involved, including Richard Doty and several who go by the names 'Falcon' and "Condor." We examined several UFO crashes that the government appears to have been involved in, including those in Roswell, New Mexico; Kecksburg, Pennsylvania; and the Kalahari Desert in South Africa.

Also it should be said that according to multiple sources, including Robert (AKA: Bob) Lazar (Whom I believe) the badges at Area 51 have “MAJ” written on them. The MJ-12’s involvement in crash retrieval and suppression has also been verified many times by multiple government sources, including one personal source.

Reasons pointing to MJ-12’s involvement in crash recovery and suppression…

* The reports of their involvement in multiple other crash retrieval situations.
* The presence of “MAJ” on Area 51 badges.
* Numerous whistleblower reports of Majics involvement.
* The “MJ Documents” themselves.

So by some simple research of the high correspondence and links between these topics one quickly finds stunning congruencies between all these entities and then quickly sees the larger picture here.

3.Area 51 and EBE-3

As I stated in chapter one of this post, one of the alien beings was taken to Area 51 in Nevada. The fate of the other creature is unknown. Coincidental there exists a reported tape that shows about two and half minutes of an “alien interview” in Area 51. Even more coincidentally the year of the interview is 1989 ,are we starting to connect the dots yet? There is a pattern to everything, you just have to look hard enough and use logic. So here we have what appears to be the closest ever to a “smoking gun” in Ufology. We have substanciated military reports of a radar contact in South Africa, we have a relevant connection to a reported government agency, then the holy grail comes..We get a whistleblower who comes with a video of an EBE being interviewed at Area 51 in 1989!

Satellite image of Area 51 near Groom Lake, Nevada

So either the whistleblower (AKA: Vincent) was planning this MASSIVE hoax since around 1989, then waited till the nineties to create this video just to make a few thousand dollars (which he could have made MUCH easier and sooner doing something else,lol) OR This guy just decided mysteriously to say it was made in 1989, WHY? Why not make up a new crash (make more money-haha) or use the Kecksburg, Height 611, or some other well known or made up event? Instead he uses a little known crash over Africa in 1989? I think not, and I know he doesn’t state this being comes from that crash, but just use simple logic and put two and two together.

Oh, I almost forgot, here is another option: This is all true and the video is legit and the obvious connections I made are accurate, instead of some skeptic explanation involving something much more ‘theoretical’ and involving astronomical odds.

Am I saying I am right? NO, I could be horribly wrong, but I think that my theory is very attractive and plausible, not to mention it links up well with everything.

So we are left with two options yet again…

1. This theory, the Kalahari crash, and the video are hoaxes or none related. But likely not extra terrestrial in nature.


2. This all interlocks and is related and accurately describes yet another US cover-up of an extraterrestrial encounter.

I will leave you all to decide for yourselves, as you are all intelligent beings. So here is the video, if you want to skip to the actual alien video go to about 32 minutes into the video, but I suggest you watch the whole thing, it is only 66 minutes.

Google Video Link

Continued Below...

[edit on 5/4/2009 by jkrog08]

[edit on 5/4/2009 by jkrog08]

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 12:03 AM
4. Conclusions of Evidence

Well all in all we are still left with no undeniable physical evidence (although I disagree and think that evidence is the video) and just have logic, circumstantial evidence, eyewitness accounts, whistleblowers, and very odd coincidental patterns to go by. I will leave the final decision to you all, but I will give you my judgement on evidence available…

On the Kalahari crash- With the military witness report I am inclined to believe this factual, although other sources would be nice, although the in-depth description of the incident and the beings lends credibility to the event. I also want to add that this is really all the evidence we can get now days, as the government has pretty much everything ‘locked up’, our only info comes from whistleblowers. In saying that it is logical to assume this is factual because there is no apparent reason for anyone to make this up, there is no monetary incentive involved. To go into such detail for nothing does not make sense. Just because something seems extraordinary does not mean it is fantasy. Anyone remember when they said “heavier than air flying machines are impossible”……kinda’ funny considering a few weeks ago I just flew in a multi-ton jet from Illinois to Tennessee at 550 mph 29,000 feet above the Earth.

On the MJ-12’s involvement- The MJ-12 is a well known organization within the UFO community and much evidence has been shed in both physical documents and witness testimony. Their connection with UFO crash recoveries and the suppression of public knowledge is obvious if you believe the theories, which as stated have much evidence to support their existence. Of course they are going to be discredited, do you really think the government would not launch a disinformation campaign to further suppress the leaking of the highest classified files? When researching crashes and the ensuing retrievals it quickly becomes apparent by cross research that in-fact, if true (again, likely IMO), point to the Majics involvement in nearly every UFO crash, with the exception of ones in Russia or Asia (coincidentally our ‘less diplomatically friendly’ countries….funny there's a lot of ‘coincidences in Ufology isn’t there?!). So in my opinion I believe that not only does MJ-12 exist, but is the entity overseeing the entire UFO phenomina, at least on the levels of retrieval, suppression, and deflection. They may take their orders from others, that is unclear at the present.

On Area 51 and the EBE- We all know Area 51 exists, that can not be disputed, hell you can see it on Google Earth! As far as the alien interview, which I believe to be true, I think it closes up the congruency between Kalahari, MJ-12, and proof of alien life and a government cover-up. The video has been disputed but can not be disproved, many people (experts) have said they believe it authentic, or “one hell of a hoax”. When looking at such a piece of evidence we must look to the presenter. In this case Mr. “Vincent” ,I must say the way he talks seems very much like someone from within the government at one point by his tone, words, and reluctance to disclose certain facts. I have experience in talking with a supposed government employee and I must say his very tone and refusal to answer questions, and the way he refused were the same as “Vincent’s” was. You can tell he is in fear of his safety, but yet strong in asserting his facts and presentation. Plus there was no real money in it for him ,yea he got paid, but nothing substantial. I don’t know how many of you listen to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell , but he was sure convinced, as were others. Sometimes you have to just use human ‘intuition’ and feel the truth just by the way someone acts and talks. Also you must use logic and make logical connections and rationalizations when debating fact versus fiction. Keep in mind that the Greys are supposed to “lose their original blue-green” color upon being deprived of their natural nutrients. Also the date area on the video says “DNI/27” , that is compatible with multiple rumors of The Department of Navy Intelligence running these operations at area 51, also it is said that the “DNI/27” classification could be security clearance, since it is known that clearance levels go up to “Q-36”, from what has been said, although I have heard that “ULTRA-7” is the top ,or near it. So yes to simplify what I said, I believe the video to be 100% authentic.

I must say let us not ask for to much here, because the core of most Ufology is that the government is trying actively to conceal the truth from the public. So with that in mind can skeptics really ask for any “live alien” or a “ride in a UFO”, they must realize that, but so must we who believe in these phenomina. Really what is the burden of proof before we can really say “we know it is true, regardless if the government will admit it or not.” Countless times I have researched, written about, and debated ‘proof’. Are we in a circular argument here altogether? Is there no point in continuing, because if theories are true then any evidence will be suppressed or more importantly discredited. I believe ‘proof’ has come in the ‘smoking gun’ form (at least what is possible due to government interference) as come many times, including Roswell, Kecksburg, Height 611, Kalahari, Whistleblowers, documentation, witness accounts by the MILLIONS, and yes the alien interview video. It matters not, as long as we change one mind it has the potential to start a chain reaction across the world that will ultimately lead us to the greatest truth in all of human history.


[edit on 5/4/2009 by jkrog08]

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 12:29 AM
Good work.

The main issue for me is that the 'being' in the video looks nothing like the one described from the crash site, in terms of colouring anyway.

It's unfortunate that, if it did indeed happen, it happened in 1989 before the new South African government came into power. If something like this were to happen now, I doubt we (RSA) would be able to keep it 'under wraps'. Our forces and governmental organisation just aren't what they used to be, as terrible as that sounds (due to the whole Apartheid thing).

Nowadays we have a few very good task teams but that's about it.

I wonder if the current government would even be aware of the event, if it did occur.

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 12:31 AM
Yea, unfortunately it didn't happen then( when the new government came to power) ,although I still have my doubts it would have mattered. As far as the coloring of the being, it is commonly reported that they lose coloration after being deprived of their natural nutrients.

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 12:48 AM
Here is a report from the local news....

Lephalale - Mystery still surrounds the UFO that reportedly crashed somewhere in the Lephalale (Ellisras) region on Monday.

On Tuesday, it was reported that Leonie Ras, the administrative manager of Lephalale saw a strange object fall to the ground at about 04:33 on her daughter's farm east of the town.

She was lying in bed checking her SMS messages when she heard a noise "like an Airbus aircraft firing up its motors".

There was no thunder or lightning and the noise grew louder, eventually sounding like a million turbines screaming in unison, said Ras.

She walked to the bedroom window and saw the clouds taking on a bright orange-red colour.

She described the object as a bright object that "plunged from the clouds to the earth, at a terrible speed, and hit the ground with an almighty bang."

It looked like Haley's comet, "round in the front and with an orange-red tail following behind".

On Wednesday, the Lephalale police station reportedly received numerous enquiries following the incident.

But the area was vast and there was no way of knowing where to start looking, said Superintendent Wessel Geldenhuys.

He added that the object could have fallen in Botswana, which is situated about 45km away.

Geldenhuys said that Ras's neighbour had also seen the UFO, but that so far, no one else had seen the object or had any idea where it was.

"We have had many queries, but no answers," he said.

- News24

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 08:10 AM
reply to post by jkrog08
Hiya Jkrog08,
This is one that I've never felt reassured by the evidence of a crash retrieval. A quick look around the internet reveals newspaper accounts of a UFO or meteorite (bolide?) sighting. The aliens and crash retrieval appear to have been added later. No primary witnesses and documents that are wide open to question. The supplier of the documents, James Van Gruenen admitted faking some of them. In true hoaxer fashion, he offered the caveat that whilst he'd faked some papers, the incident was true and some documents were authentic.

Cynthia Hind of Zimbabwe, a world famous UFO researcher and author of a book on UFO's in Southern Africa subsequently wrote an article that was published in the 'UFO Times'. It was titled; "Anatomy of a hoax. The UFO crash on the South African/Botswana border". This article exposes one, James Van Greunen, as the originator of an extremely elaborate hoax. She points out inconsistencies and discrepancies in the alleged documents as proof. Amongst these are 14 spelling mistakes in what claimed to be an official document. When Van Greunen was confronted he admitted he had faked some details but still insisted it was a true story about a downed object on the border repeated to him in confidence by a friend of his, Hendrik Greef, a pilot in the S.A.A.F, who had overheard it at an officers mess.

Cynthia Hind is meticulous in her recording and investigation of UFO sightings in the Southern half of Africa and S Africa in particular. She uses witness testimony to date the actual sighting as 7th of May 1988. She reports that a Brasilian Marine Sgt claimed to have been sent (alone) to photograph the crash site. He described the CIA shooting a French agent also sent to photograph the site. Pretty elaborate story so far. You can read Hind's investigation in her annual collection UFO AfriNews 1992 (PDF). It begins on page 20...

We have a SAAF Mirage jet armed with lasers (!!!), shooting down a UFO on S African Sovereign soil. Then we have at least three nationalities being sent to photograph the site. Despite SA still being under International boycott for the Pik Botha regime, the Americans turn up and take the evidence away. Some accounts suggest that the US 'paid' for the UFO with nuclear warheads. SA was well on it's way to being a nuclear power from the late 70s...having made the first nuclear warhead in 1979 and signed the nuclear proliferation treaty in the early 90s.

Controversial evidence and witness testimony that doesn't include the crash from unverified witnesses. Websites like this have even added recovered script from the 'UFO' and added specific details that don't exist.

All told, the alleged incident has remained unpopular because of the wide disparity of evidence. I know a lot of good work has gone into this thread, but the evidence can be interpreted a different way. Accounts like Height 611, Corales, 1977, Roswell etc stand up to more scrutiny. In the case of Roswell it appears the worst hoaxers are the Pentagon

Earlier ATS Thread (see IsaacKoi's post)

Edit to add page number

[edit on 4-5-2009 by Kandinsky]

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 10:40 AM
I agree, it can be interpreted different.Although I think it warrants further investigation.

Waht documents were you talking about? The MJ12 or the documents related to the Kalahari crash?

[edit on 5/4/2009 by jkrog08]

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 11:49 AM
Here is another incident, it seems strange things fall out of the sky a lot in southern Africa.

Johannesburg - The search for an unidentified object, which crashed into the sea at Port Shepstone on Saturday, will resume at the weekend as there were no bodies to search for, the National Sea Rescue Institute said on Tuesday.

"It is unlikely that we will go out to search before the weekend. The NSRI's core business is rescuing people and here there is no loss of life involved," said NSRI Shelley Beach Station Commander Eddie Noyons.

The search for the unidentified object began on Saturday after witnesses reported that an object, possibly an aircraft, had crashed into the sea behind the breaker line off-shore of the Port Shepstone High School.

Police, rescue craft and a fixed wing aircraft were alerted to the scene to investigate.

"Following a full-scale search of the area covering 12 square nautical miles nothing had been found.

"There are no reports of activity in the area that may be related to this incident and there are no aircraft reported to be overdue or missing," said Noyons.

Ripple effect on waves

He said numerous witnesses - including teachers and pupils attending a sports event at the high school, and other bystanders including local fishermen - were convinced they had seen an aircraft go into the water, including seeing smoke and a water plume.

Interviews with the witnesses revealed that some also reported seeing flames.

"Some reported seeing something, an unidentified object, splash into the sea causing a ripple effect of waves," Noyons said.

Due to the number of witnesses with similar reports, it was presumed that weather activity in the area at the time might have given the impression of something falling into the sea.

Noyons said rescue workers were unable to find oil slicks, petrol spillage or any signs or wreckage during the search on Saturday.

"We are not sure what it was as we are still unaware of any missing aircraft, but will continue the search at the weekend. Its probably a small meteorite or something. The weekend will be a nice time for diving," said Noyons.


posted on May, 4 2009 @ 01:08 PM

Originally posted by jkrog08
I agree, it can be interpreted different.Although I think it warrants further investigation.

Waht documents were you talking about? The MJ12 or the documents related to the Kalahari crash?

Hiya Jkrog08

I referred to the documents provided by James Van Gruenen. His bona fides are in question as various sources are in conflict as to his actual position...Colonel, Captain, friend of a SAAF pilot (Greef), Intelligence Officer or provisional journalist


'Fishy documents'

Lesotho UFO crash 1996-Gruenen again? (UFO Afrinews 1996 pdf)

I left out the MJ-12 Documents because 1988/89 is much later than any of the plausible documents. Twining, Cutler, Truman etc are decades earlier. The evidence supports the possibility that 'something' (UFO, meteorite, bolide or satellite crash?) was seen in the skies at the time. Crash retrievals, live and/or dead aliens and the purchase of evidence with nuclear technology is unsupported (in the Kalahari incident) by more than hearsay and web rumors.

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 03:21 PM
I had no idea SA was so advanced in 1989 that they had airborne laser cannons

If it werent for that I might be inclined to believe it could be true but Im callin BS on this one

Thor 2 Laser cannon

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 03:28 PM

an astonishingly energetic and resourceful scoundrel who has been denounced as a forger, con man and bigamist, and apparently is also a transsexual…..

Possible disinformation? Those are very harsh words and coincidentally enough sound of classic government disinfo, utilizing all the cliché stereotypes needed to destroy credibility. I am just saying it is a possibility.

"Some readers recall the Kalahari Incident of 1989, when an alleged UFO crash took place in the Kalahari desert, Botswana. The source, a certain James van Greunen, was soon in the crossfire and it turned out that there were fakes and false claims by this person, so that most UFO researchers came to the conclusion that the whole case had to be a fabrication by this man. Of course, this seems to be a strong possibility.
"But I strongly recommend a close look at the thorough investigative efforts of researcher Anthony Dodd from England regarding the Kalahari Incident (ref. Quest UFO magazine, Vol. 12 No. 2, 1993, article on the Kalahari crash by Graham Birdsall). When asked why other researchers often call that incident a hoax, Dodd replied: 'Because they do not know anything.' His extensive investigation showed that, at least, something very unusual had happened in South Africa in 1989. High-ranking persons out of the SA intelligence community confirmed the event. This is not the place to retell the Kalahari story -- however, the investigation shows that van Greunen obviously received information on an authentic occurrence.
"Of course, this in no way proves that van Greunen is or was in military or intelligence service. As it seems, he got the information from friends. To make things even more complicated, James van Greunen has received a new identity by changing his sex. I do not want to defend van Greunen in any way. But personally I think the discussion at the moment focuses a bit too much on the person van Greunen. Of course, for us -- Mr. Stein, Mr. Kopp and myself -- it was also quite easy to find contradictions and lies in van Greunen's accounts that made us very skeptical. However, the question is: Could this really affect the whole case? Is it proof that the whole thing is a hoax? Not necessarily.

It seems that what we have surrounding this case is a series of either
A. Unfortunate events pertaining to an individual who tried to make a profit out of a real incident, thus tainting everything pertaining to said incident.
B. A full scale disinformation campaign to discredit and destroy witness credibility.
C. A total hoax created by an individual trying to make a profit out of the Ufology field.

"We have confirmed statements by independent witnesses that van Greunen repeatedly had contact with the German secret service. Maybe she tried to lie to them, too. But what was or is her intention? Money? Maybe. However, would you try to sell faked documents to a foreign secret service with not the least substance contained in them? The term 'disinformation' means more than intentionally lying, e.g. for personal profit. The implication is: covering up real information. Why were we warned by another German agency that interest in a matter like the one discussed here could be rather dangerous? All these aspects and possibilities are in our mind now.
"It would be pure speculation to state that the bunch of documents provided by van Greunen are authentic, pure speculation to state that the story is true and that an extraterrestrial vehicle crashed in Lesotho two years ago. We really cannot exclude that this incident is based upon van Greunen's fabrication. However, it is also speculation that nothing did happen there. And we cannot simply stay quiet, put the material we have in a drawer and wait for a moment years later when some people find some substance to the incident, want to do research and find that any traces have been wiped out in the meantime. So let's carry out a thorough investigation and find out.

Interestingly enough that researcher makes a comparison similar to what I did regarding “Vincent” and the alien interview. Using logic one must ask questions that make sense, such as why would this lady contact the German Intelligence with fake documents, she would know they weren’t going to pay her anything and would likely charge her with fraud if she was lying.

Also I should note that the news article I linked a few posts ago was from the more recent “Lesotho Incident”, and not the 89 Kalahari crash. I will try to find an article relating to that specific crash. I am pretty sure that the one I referenced has to do with the more recent event.

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 03:38 PM
reply to post by punkinworks09

The weapon was given to them by the US in exchange they would turn over any crashes. DEW's (Directed Energy Weapons) are not scifi, in fact some are publicly known, now if those are public, can you imagine what is private?

The US Air Force airborne laser, (ABL), designated YAL-1A, is a high-energy laser weapon system for the destruction of tactical theatre ballistic missiles, which is carried on a modified Boeing 747-400F freighter aircraft.

The ABL is being developed by the Air Force Research Laboratory and Team ABL, comprising Boeing, TRW (now Northrop Grumman Space Technologies) and Lockheed Martin.

"YAL-1A, is a high-energy laser weapon system for the destruction of tactical theatre ballistic missiles."

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 03:40 PM
reply to post by jkrog08

Great post, starred and flagged. My thoughts:

1. Kalahari crash: Not enough information to state it is ET in origin. I am one who believes flying saucers rarely crash.

2. MJ-12: Major Kevin Randle has also did exhaustive research on these papers. His conclusion is they are hoaxes because of all the errors found on them. Stanton Friedman has also done extensive and exhaustive research, and has not declared them to be false. I am one to think they are fakes created by someone in a top security job to throw off UFO researchers in case the real deal gets leaked. What better way to say those would be faked too?

3. Area 51: Test facility only for our experimental planes and drones. No ET craft or bodies here. (Retired Brigadier General Arthur Exon also stated there are no bodies or ET craft at Area 51. That stuff is at another location.)

4. EBE-3: Many stories on what actually has happened. I do think that we have extraterrestrial craft and bodies, but I am not sure if we had a meeting like the movie "Close Encounters". This one needs more research before I make a judgment.

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 03:45 PM
Hey, thanks for dropping by. The Kalahari case is very interesting and does need more research done, but it would be a large task. The thing is when ever Ufologist get deeper into the coverup the more and more unbelievable information comes out, unfortunately the way this information is acquired requires anonymity of the source and thus we are still left with the debates. The best thing to do IMO is to launch full scale investigations, trying to connect everything, like a puzzle and present a logical result for all the information. One must also realize that if the MJ12 docs and alien interview are true then the government has obviously long ago launched a discrediting campaign, just like they did with Bob Lazar.

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 04:29 PM
reply to post by jkrog08
Hiya Jkrog08,

It seems that what we have surrounding this case is a series of either
A. Unfortunate events pertaining to an individual who tried to make a profit out of a real incident, thus tainting everything pertaining to said incident.
B. A full scale disinformation campaign to discredit and destroy witness credibility.
C. A total hoax created by an individual trying to make a profit out of the Ufology field.

I'm erring towards choice A, but possibly more than one individual.

In a link provided earlier, there is some question about the Lesotho incident's authenticity. Again, Cynthia Hind, suspected the involvement of Gruenen. Hind's record of recording UFO activity in SA predates Gruenen by several years. Her record is untarnished yet Gruenen is on record admitting to falsifying documents.

The addition to the account of 'THOR 2' laser cannons is a glaring over-elaboration of the account IMO. Why would a country under international boycott be in the position to test technology that wouldn't be realized for another decade? I almost posted the same (ABL YAL 1A Airborne Laser, USA) link to emphasize the paradox.

Would the US be testing 'laser cannons' on SA, French-built aircraft a decade before awarding the contract to a US aviation company? If so, the UFO 'kill' would negate any further testing and make the Boeing, TRW (now Northrop Grumman Space Technologies) and Lockheed Martin contract redundant.

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 04:35 PM

The addition to the account of 'THOR 2' laser cannons is a glaring over-elaboration of the account IMO. Why would a country under international boycott be in the position to test technology that wouldn't be realized for another decade? I almost posted the same (ABL YAL 1A Airborne Laser, USA) link to emphasize the paradox.

Would the US be testing 'laser cannons' on SA, French-built aircraft a decade before awarding the contract to a US aviation company? If so, the UFO 'kill' would negate any further testing and make the Boeing, TRW (now Northrop Grumman Space Technologies) and Lockheed Martin contract redundant.

I could have left out the Thor 2 part, but as a rule I do not 'buffer' or 'pretty up' anything I post on ATS. That would be misleading and all I am trying to do is spread information in effort to get the truth.

With that said, I admit the Thor 2 part does somewhat taint credibility in the story. But that does not make it untrue. If we are to believe that the US government has been gaining alien technology since 1947 then we must also believe it plausible that they have extremely advanced technology back engineered or given to them by ETs.

As far as the S. African Airforce having this technology; they didn't, it was loaned to them by the US in exchange for them turning over any alien craft shot down by the weapons system. A far and reasonable trade I must add.

[edit on 5/4/2009 by jkrog08]

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 05:19 PM
reply to post by jkrog08
Hiya Jkrog08

As far as the S. African Airforce having this technology; they didn't, it was loaned to them by the US in exchange for them turning over any alien craft shot down by the weapons system.

Accounts vary widely. There's no evidence that the US had 'laser cannons' to loan in 1989. There is evidence that the US was testing laser weapons years later(1996). Some accounts explain that nuclear technology was exchanged, but SA already had nuclear technology. They had it ten years before the Kalahari incident (1979).

In the late 1980s, SA was persona non grata to the West. Apartheid was coming to an end; international boycotts by the UN and sporting bodies like cricket were in force. Mandela was still in Robben Island. If any exchange was to occur, SA would require something more than the loan of a 'laser cannon' or nuclear tech they already had.

There are some excellent UFO accounts that come with good documentary evidence, plausible witnesses and sometimes images. The Kalahari UFO crash is lacking these aspects.

1988 in South Africa

1989 in South Africa

Disinvestment from South Africa

posted on May, 4 2009 @ 05:31 PM
Whilst I'm of the mind that the Area-51 'alien' video is a fake and that 'Thor laser cannons' wouldn't be on a South African fighter jet I find your research to be worthy of a star and flag jkrog08.

Really enjoyable post! Bunk in my opinion, but well thought out, written and presented. Liked how you dated the Kalahari thing to the interview video, I enjoy finding patterns myself and that's a good one.


posted on May, 4 2009 @ 05:37 PM
Thank you, I did put some effort into it, regardless if it is true or not I feel the case needs to be presented to the community for further research and recognition.

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